Air Traffic System Failure
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW- 3rd world state
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Power
I heard that the failure was actually due to non-payment of the electricty bill to Energex. 
Not enough money left after AsA paid their dividend to the Gov. recently !!!
Not enough money left after AsA paid their dividend to the Gov. recently !!!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, wait a minute - some idiot in Canberra is actually working on that idea now. Apparently they are convinced it will save a fortune.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Roger Standby
Oh, wait a minute - some idiot in Canberra is actually working on that idea now. Apparently they are convinced it will save a fortune.
Thinks....
Are we saying here that, in the 'unlikely' event of a fire in one of the Centres, then the 'other' Centre, or its Training Facility, has the capacity to 'Take over' the other's airspace??
At least that's what we were told in 'those days'....
Question - How do you 'suddenly' get suitably RATED controllers in ML for BN airspace, or vice versa??
(Ah Silly, we put them in a BIG aeroplane thingy and fly them down..
How does THAT aeroplane get there without a Clearance from Rated controllers?
Ah, the one in seat 1A looks out and tells the pilot its OK....)
.
Its about as daft.......
Are we saying here that, in the 'unlikely' event of a fire in one of the Centres, then the 'other' Centre, or its Training Facility, has the capacity to 'Take over' the other's airspace??
At least that's what we were told in 'those days'....
Question - How do you 'suddenly' get suitably RATED controllers in ML for BN airspace, or vice versa??
(Ah Silly, we put them in a BIG aeroplane thingy and fly them down..
How does THAT aeroplane get there without a Clearance from Rated controllers?
Ah, the one in seat 1A looks out and tells the pilot its OK....)
.
Its about as daft.......
) controllers will be shipped to ML....by bus.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: On a different Island
Age: 52
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm pretty sure that the Bus option is in the plans, maybe it'll be drive your own car in reality... They techs will take at least 2 days to convert the gear anyway, so what's the rush...
The Business Continuity is simply a we've lost all hope of recovering one centre; then only very limited services would be provided at the other end, certainly not back to normal... You might find that entire groups get allocated a single console or none at all, perhaps one to share.
The Business Continuity is simply a we've lost all hope of recovering one centre; then only very limited services would be provided at the other end, certainly not back to normal... You might find that entire groups get allocated a single console or none at all, perhaps one to share.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: where the sun shines
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boys from the north,
You need to look at this seriously. Who wants to move to the cold miserable southern centre.....?
Lets burn down ML Centre now, before they get us!
Any volunteers????
(Edit: For all you Management types out there, this is called tongue in cheek. Humour; you should try it some time. Oh hang on, you have. It is called your current offer!)
You need to look at this seriously. Who wants to move to the cold miserable southern centre.....?
Lets burn down ML Centre now, before they get us!
Any volunteers????
(Edit: For all you Management types out there, this is called tongue in cheek. Humour; you should try it some time. Oh hang on, you have. It is called your current offer!)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kyeemagh
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
During the extended degraded mode, did FP2's depart before all affected degraded workstations had entered flight plans? This is what happened when all the YMMM remote TCUs were disconnected for several hours a few months back... chaos.
Music Quizmeister
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Can'tberra, ACT Australia
Age: 67
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ouch - a failure of the FD processor would not be fun.
I'm told that when Raytheon were installing a system in Norway, they had it up and running in test mode and the Norwegians asked "How long does it take to restore the system after a total power failure (considering with Gens, UPS etc this would supposedly never happen)?" The Raytheon reps answered something like "Well - almost impossible to happen, but about 24 Hours".
The Norwegians then immediately caused an absolute total power failure (the system died on que) and said "You time starts now....."
Never been able to verify the story - but bet it was fun if it really happened!!
I'm told that when Raytheon were installing a system in Norway, they had it up and running in test mode and the Norwegians asked "How long does it take to restore the system after a total power failure (considering with Gens, UPS etc this would supposedly never happen)?" The Raytheon reps answered something like "Well - almost impossible to happen, but about 24 Hours".
The Norwegians then immediately caused an absolute total power failure (the system died on que) and said "You time starts now....."
Never been able to verify the story - but bet it was fun if it really happened!!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was reminded today that the people who helped everybody (ie. ATC and managers) got little/no acknowledgment post the event - so thank you, FDC's, from me. I know you had everybody calling you for flight plans thinking that each person was the only one affected (at first) and clearly should have been afforded priority. Excellent job by you fine folk.
Well done to all my fellow ATC'ers too - I notice that the papers only reported the delay, and not the fact that a (reduced) service was still offered, instead of no service.
Well done to all my fellow ATC'ers too - I notice that the papers only reported the delay, and not the fact that a (reduced) service was still offered, instead of no service.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: hell
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any truth to the rumour that TFN was trapped in the back (way up the back!) of one of the departures stuck on the ground at B'vegas for over an hour when the FDP failed?? 
Almost makes cold start seem worthwhile
Almost makes cold start seem worthwhile
Join Date: May 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
undervalued spot on about the FDCs.
Great people who get bugger all appreciation.
I was on for the failure, it highlighted those who have had a lot of exposure to the system, and pre TAAATS experience, and have had refresher training (even though it may have been 3+ years ago), and those who have been there for a while but have had no refresher training.
To me the actions of some of them ALMs was less than optimum, you don't allow departures until you check with the controllers, and you don't release airspace to the Military until you check with the controllers.
On the whole it showed why you pay for controllers not for
'airspace monitors', when the poo hits the fan give me experience anyday. Sorry for the delays to industry but safety carries the day. ASA will probably 'tick off' the refresher training now.
Great people who get bugger all appreciation.
I was on for the failure, it highlighted those who have had a lot of exposure to the system, and pre TAAATS experience, and have had refresher training (even though it may have been 3+ years ago), and those who have been there for a while but have had no refresher training.
To me the actions of some of them ALMs was less than optimum, you don't allow departures until you check with the controllers, and you don't release airspace to the Military until you check with the controllers.
On the whole it showed why you pay for controllers not for
'airspace monitors', when the poo hits the fan give me experience anyday. Sorry for the delays to industry but safety carries the day. ASA will probably 'tick off' the refresher training now.
Well done also to those staff who offered to extend their shifts to assist, even if they were subsequently told by management that their services were not required and they could go home.
I am sure your colleagues appreciated the thought. Pity that the extra safety was not affordable.
I am sure your colleagues appreciated the thought. Pity that the extra safety was not affordable.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Here
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
scran
Your story happened pretty well as described - there was a bit of discussion before starting. It was a case if they didn't do it then they would never get to do the test once it went live!
Everything came back in much less than 24hrs, most functionality was restored in 10-15 mins!
The Norwegians (and Raytheon) were happy.
FF
Your story happened pretty well as described - there was a bit of discussion before starting. It was a case if they didn't do it then they would never get to do the test once it went live!
Everything came back in much less than 24hrs, most functionality was restored in 10-15 mins!
The Norwegians (and Raytheon) were happy.
FF
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW- 3rd world state
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
busy
Sounds like, once again, that you all did an excellent job of keeping things running as there were no media beat ups of planes having near misses (even though you had a standard) but I also notice zero praise or thanks from management, surprise, surprise.
Did anyone get set up or hammered by management when things failed ?
Long live paper strips !!!
Did anyone get set up or hammered by management when things failed ?
Long live paper strips !!!
I also notice zero praise or thanks from management, surprise, surprise
Join Date: May 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also saw praise from a 3rd Level manager, on the whole experience carried the day.
My concern is the 'dumbing down' of controllers that the new training regime envisions. Controllers will get training only in those areas that will immediately concern them.
It was beneficial with the system collapse we had on Wednesday that we still had a base of knowledge that enabled those more experienced controllers to assist those lesser experienced ones, in that the actions that were being taken affected others. When the system fails, it is still the controllers responsibility.
To me it highlighted those out of touch managers who talk of controllers 'monitoring' rather than controlling airspace. We are responsible for anything that occurs in our airspace, we do not 'monitor'.
My concern is the 'dumbing down' of controllers that the new training regime envisions. Controllers will get training only in those areas that will immediately concern them.
It was beneficial with the system collapse we had on Wednesday that we still had a base of knowledge that enabled those more experienced controllers to assist those lesser experienced ones, in that the actions that were being taken affected others. When the system fails, it is still the controllers responsibility.
To me it highlighted those out of touch managers who talk of controllers 'monitoring' rather than controlling airspace. We are responsible for anything that occurs in our airspace, we do not 'monitor'.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW- 3rd world state
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have seen emails from two different 3rd level managers praising and thanking their staff for a job well done.
Its excellent that some one said well done but what I was getting at was that no one (ie centre manager/ HR) made the public aware or any other announcement. I guess that would be admitting that the system is not perfect.
Praise for a job well done these days is very rare, its mostly when people F%#@ up that you hear about it.