A320 Ditching
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A320 Ditching
hey all,
probably been done to death already, but,
Does Airbus specify a procedure for a ditching an A320?
If so, what?
or if not, is there any information on the technique used by the skipper with the keys to NYC?
additionally, well done to all the crew on board.
probably been done to death already, but,
Does Airbus specify a procedure for a ditching an A320?
If so, what?
or if not, is there any information on the technique used by the skipper with the keys to NYC?
additionally, well done to all the crew on board.
PLovett I started reading the "Official" A320 in the Hudson thread and quickly became disinterested as it rapidly turned into a "who can get this snippet of info into the thread first" fest, akin to the kind of crap one sees on airliners.net with it's 13 year old airline execs.
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All Airbus aircraft have a 'Ditching' button on the overhead panel. It closes the vents in the fuselage (mainly) that would let water in, thereby helping the aircraft float.
Looks like it worked in this case.
Looks like it worked in this case.
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Out of the A320 Quick Ref. Handbook:
IF DITCHING ANTICIPATED
APPROACH
– FOR LDG USE FLAP 3
Only slats extend, and slowly.
– MIN APPR SPEED 150 KT
– VAPP DETERMINE
Vapp is the maximum between Vref + 25 knots / 150 knots:
Weight (1000kg) 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 68 72 76 78
Vapp 150 150 150 150 150 154 159 163 167 171 172
discAt a suitable altitude (not below 3000 feet AGL), configure the aircraft for ditching (CONF 3; L/G UP):
– L/G lever CHECK UP
AT 2000 FEET AGL
– DITCHING pushbutton ON
In case of strong crosswind, ditch face to the wind.
In the absence of strong crosswind, prefer ditching parallel to the swell. Touchdown with approximately 11 degrees of pitch and minimum aircraft vertical speed.
AT 1000 FEET AGL
– PA “CABIN CREW TAKE YOUR SEATS FOR LANDING”
AT 200 FEET AGL
– PA “BRACE BRACE”
AT TOUCHDOWN
– ENG MASTERS OFF
AFTER DITCHING
– ATC (VHF 1) NOTIFY
– EVACUATION INITIATE
– ELTinstl CHECK EMITTING
If not, switch on the transmitter
IF DITCHING ANTICIPATED
APPROACH
– FOR LDG USE FLAP 3
Only slats extend, and slowly.
– MIN APPR SPEED 150 KT
– VAPP DETERMINE
Vapp is the maximum between Vref + 25 knots / 150 knots:
Weight (1000kg) 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 68 72 76 78
Vapp 150 150 150 150 150 154 159 163 167 171 172
discAt a suitable altitude (not below 3000 feet AGL), configure the aircraft for ditching (CONF 3; L/G UP):
– L/G lever CHECK UP
AT 2000 FEET AGL
– DITCHING pushbutton ON
In case of strong crosswind, ditch face to the wind.
In the absence of strong crosswind, prefer ditching parallel to the swell. Touchdown with approximately 11 degrees of pitch and minimum aircraft vertical speed.
AT 1000 FEET AGL
– PA “CABIN CREW TAKE YOUR SEATS FOR LANDING”
AT 200 FEET AGL
– PA “BRACE BRACE”
AT TOUCHDOWN
– ENG MASTERS OFF
AFTER DITCHING
– ATC (VHF 1) NOTIFY
– EVACUATION INITIATE
– ELTinstl CHECK EMITTING
If not, switch on the transmitter
Take 2............
Terrific new footage of the actual imapact is now out. The touch down body angle looks similar to a normal ldg from what I can see.
One cool crew they had & a lot of luck!
Wmk2
Terrific new footage of the actual imapact is now out. The touch down body angle looks similar to a normal ldg from what I can see.One cool crew they had & a lot of luck!
Wmk2
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Ditching P/B
A handy little switch it would be and probably was in this particular case. Closes off avionics in and outlet vents, ramair vent and the outflow valve.
Funnily enough, it seems to be Airbus specific as some boeing guys i have mentioned it to think i'm taking the pi55 talking about a ditching push button.
Funnily enough, it seems to be Airbus specific as some boeing guys i have mentioned it to think i'm taking the pi55 talking about a ditching push button.
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Found this on the Qantas pilots' chat room.
Professional Pilot Extraordinaire
Does anyone in my circle of pilot-friends, non-pilot friends, and family not think that Sully is the finest example of what it means to be a Professional pilot (whether civil or military)? He makes me proud to be a member of the fraternity of professional pilots, and I would hope that I’d perform as perfectly as he did yesterday when faced with this absolute horror of a situation and a planeload of “fares” behind the cockpit door having blind faith in your ability to get them to the “other end” in one piece. First thing I thought of was writer and pilot Ernie Gann quoting “Slonny” Sloniger, his former chief pilot at American Airways back in the 1930s . . “Careful preservation of your own ass likewise assures the continuing survival of all those sitting behind you”. I’ll bet that Sully has read “Fate is the Hunter”, too . . more than once.
I can’t believe that all the cable news channels and newspapers seem to have missed the very important point that of all Sully’s ratings and accomplishments, that the most important one is that he is a CFI (Certified Flight Instructor, for my non-flying friends) Glider! This is probably the most important factor in his flying background that gave him the skill to remain calm and get that aircraft with no engine power into the Hudson in one piece and save the lives of all of his passengers. He had several tools at his disposal, such as flight spoilers, leading edge flaps and slats, Fowler flaps on the trailing edge, and I have no doubt that he made full use of what he had available during that very short time. As my friend and aviator Ivor xxxx (from “Down Under”) would say . . “Goodonya, Sully!”
I’ve been reading a few news “blogs” today from (obviously) non-pilots, however well-meaning, that no credit has been given to the (so far un-named) First Officer in the cockpit with Sully . . that flying a modern jet airliner is a two-person job and that credit should be given to Sully’s “co-pilot”. Waaallll . . I’ve been both an F.O. and Captain on aircraft in ‘121’ ops, so I think I speak from experience in this case. This was very much a “one person” job. There was NO TIME! Let me repeat . . . NO TIME! I assume that this was Sully’s “leg” (that he was the PF, or pilot flying), being the first flight of the day, and the F.O. was no doubt invaluable in following Sully’s commands to keep the gear up, deploy the flight spoilers, the trailing edge flaps, and other essential “Immediate Action” items that all of us flight crewmembers have had burned into our brains from years of ground school, home study, and in the simulators. But in the end, it was Sully on the “stick and rudder” right down to the water until the aircraft stopped moving. And then he stays in the aircraft while it was filling with 34 degree freezing-cold stinking filthy Hudson River salt water to make sure there are no passengers trapped under the seats or anywhere else in the cabin, and is the last one out. I can hardly write this without the tears coming thinking about this man’s single-minded determination that not one of his passengers be left behind. However much salary he has made over the years as a USAir pilot is a paltry amount compared with what he has given back to all of his passengers who survived this ditching, and their families and loved ones who will have them around for many years and decades to come.
The MBA bastards and bean counters who run today’s airlines and claim that pilots are overpaid and underworked prima donnas would do well to take note of this. But, of course, they won’t, being MBA bastards and bean counters.
Just wanted to share my thoughts about this with all of you. I am so proud to share a profession with people like Sully. Human beings at their very best.
Aloha ‘oe . . Conrad
Does anyone in my circle of pilot-friends, non-pilot friends, and family not think that Sully is the finest example of what it means to be a Professional pilot (whether civil or military)? He makes me proud to be a member of the fraternity of professional pilots, and I would hope that I’d perform as perfectly as he did yesterday when faced with this absolute horror of a situation and a planeload of “fares” behind the cockpit door having blind faith in your ability to get them to the “other end” in one piece. First thing I thought of was writer and pilot Ernie Gann quoting “Slonny” Sloniger, his former chief pilot at American Airways back in the 1930s . . “Careful preservation of your own ass likewise assures the continuing survival of all those sitting behind you”. I’ll bet that Sully has read “Fate is the Hunter”, too . . more than once.
I can’t believe that all the cable news channels and newspapers seem to have missed the very important point that of all Sully’s ratings and accomplishments, that the most important one is that he is a CFI (Certified Flight Instructor, for my non-flying friends) Glider! This is probably the most important factor in his flying background that gave him the skill to remain calm and get that aircraft with no engine power into the Hudson in one piece and save the lives of all of his passengers. He had several tools at his disposal, such as flight spoilers, leading edge flaps and slats, Fowler flaps on the trailing edge, and I have no doubt that he made full use of what he had available during that very short time. As my friend and aviator Ivor xxxx (from “Down Under”) would say . . “Goodonya, Sully!”
I’ve been reading a few news “blogs” today from (obviously) non-pilots, however well-meaning, that no credit has been given to the (so far un-named) First Officer in the cockpit with Sully . . that flying a modern jet airliner is a two-person job and that credit should be given to Sully’s “co-pilot”. Waaallll . . I’ve been both an F.O. and Captain on aircraft in ‘121’ ops, so I think I speak from experience in this case. This was very much a “one person” job. There was NO TIME! Let me repeat . . . NO TIME! I assume that this was Sully’s “leg” (that he was the PF, or pilot flying), being the first flight of the day, and the F.O. was no doubt invaluable in following Sully’s commands to keep the gear up, deploy the flight spoilers, the trailing edge flaps, and other essential “Immediate Action” items that all of us flight crewmembers have had burned into our brains from years of ground school, home study, and in the simulators. But in the end, it was Sully on the “stick and rudder” right down to the water until the aircraft stopped moving. And then he stays in the aircraft while it was filling with 34 degree freezing-cold stinking filthy Hudson River salt water to make sure there are no passengers trapped under the seats or anywhere else in the cabin, and is the last one out. I can hardly write this without the tears coming thinking about this man’s single-minded determination that not one of his passengers be left behind. However much salary he has made over the years as a USAir pilot is a paltry amount compared with what he has given back to all of his passengers who survived this ditching, and their families and loved ones who will have them around for many years and decades to come.
The MBA bastards and bean counters who run today’s airlines and claim that pilots are overpaid and underworked prima donnas would do well to take note of this. But, of course, they won’t, being MBA bastards and bean counters.
Just wanted to share my thoughts about this with all of you. I am so proud to share a profession with people like Sully. Human beings at their very best.
Aloha ‘oe . . Conrad
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Strewth!... wot a load of pathetic, immature, dribbling sycophancy!
You should be ashamed of yourself, Struggling, for passing on Conrads stupid views!
This is a set up, surely?
By the way, for the uninformed, a 121 operator in the States is a light twin pilot yet to find his way onto the big jets!!
Professional pilots, as the crew of the A320 surely were, would also be ashamed and embarrassed by the dribble emanating from the mouth of Conrad!
You should be ashamed of yourself, Struggling, for passing on Conrads stupid views!
This is a set up, surely?
By the way, for the uninformed, a 121 operator in the States is a light twin pilot yet to find his way onto the big jets!!
Professional pilots, as the crew of the A320 surely were, would also be ashamed and embarrassed by the dribble emanating from the mouth of Conrad!
Last edited by Obie; 18th Jan 2009 at 09:40.
I don't know 'obie' I found the comments interesting. The only thing that maybe is incorrect was the pilot flying on that first leg. I read elsewhere & am happy to be corrected that the PF initially was the Coey, PNF was probably getting an eye full of birds. I also read that the flight lasted around 5 mins, can only assume that total thrust loss wasn't straight after lift/off but perhaps was winding down slowly, comments from 'bus' drivers?
The Capt's glider experience reminds me of the B767 that they pilots turned into a glider & landed on a drag strip (old rwy). If I recall the pilot (one of them, coey I think) was a glider pilot & knew the actual area they found themselves in whilst it was very quiet in the cockpit.
One wonders in a few years to come whether this event will end up a movie or a doco.
Few will ever experience that almost unbelievable short flight. Would love to hear the CVR.
Wmk2
The Capt's glider experience reminds me of the B767 that they pilots turned into a glider & landed on a drag strip (old rwy). If I recall the pilot (one of them, coey I think) was a glider pilot & knew the actual area they found themselves in whilst it was very quiet in the cockpit.
One wonders in a few years to come whether this event will end up a movie or a doco.
Few will ever experience that almost unbelievable short flight. Would love to hear the CVR.
Wmk2
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This guy Sully has unwittingly, and obviously without forethought, given each and every one of us a boost in the public's view.
As we know the public's perception of what goes on f'ward of the ballistic door can be blurred at times. And recent opinions of us as glorified bus-drivers earning too much hasn't helped.
So well done sir, not only for saving the day, but for raising our profile above economics and reminding people we have the skills and dedication to handle what ever is thrown at us.
Replaces item: Box, Soap in cupboard.
As we know the public's perception of what goes on f'ward of the ballistic door can be blurred at times. And recent opinions of us as glorified bus-drivers earning too much hasn't helped.
So well done sir, not only for saving the day, but for raising our profile above economics and reminding people we have the skills and dedication to handle what ever is thrown at us.
Replaces item: Box, Soap in cupboard.
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Wally Mk2: The Gimli Glider's Captain, Bob Pearson, was the bloke with previous gliding experience. The F/O, Maurice Quintal, had served previously at the Gimli Base, so knew its details.
Pearson did the flying, but credits Quintal with doing a lot of the other stuff that helped keep them flying.
Off topic. Apologies.
Le Vieux
Pearson did the flying, but credits Quintal with doing a lot of the other stuff that helped keep them flying.
Off topic. Apologies.
Le Vieux
I'm not sure where you other guys are getting your information from. The A320 has a Ditching button that, when pushed, automatically puts out a "Mayday" pre-recorded by Stephen hawking, extends arm and leg clamps to prevent the pilots from touching anything, selects a suitable landing area and proceeds to approach the area. Threshold and touchdown markings are projected on the landing surface via a drop down translucent landing light cover. The aircraft is then flown to a gentle touchdown on the water.
Tnxs "Uld 'in" I couldn't recall the nic name of that event but I do now ty
Jesus 'AS2A' what if ya wanted to put yr hands over yr eyes just prior to impact? And what-if the pilot/s had their arms up in the air waving them about madly in panic which is more than likely under such stress? The arm restraints would be useless then
I note that it's apparent one engine was left on the airframe after impact rather than both removed during the crash sequence as first thought, perhaps the R/H unit as this is the side that the A/c tended to roll over too when it sunk? Guessing I know.
One wonders what would become of this airframe, surely they wouldn't put it back into service after being used as a submarine for a brief while?
Wmk2
Jesus 'AS2A' what if ya wanted to put yr hands over yr eyes just prior to impact? And what-if the pilot/s had their arms up in the air waving them about madly in panic which is more than likely under such stress? The arm restraints would be useless then
I note that it's apparent one engine was left on the airframe after impact rather than both removed during the crash sequence as first thought, perhaps the R/H unit as this is the side that the A/c tended to roll over too when it sunk? Guessing I know.
One wonders what would become of this airframe, surely they wouldn't put it back into service after being used as a submarine for a brief while?
Wmk2
G'Day Wal,
Saw a 'doco' on the Gimli Glider on the telle a few months ago.
Can't remember which Channel - may have been one of those "Air Disaster' items. Was well presented though. Those guys driving their dragsters on the strip sure got out of the way fast....in the 'remake' anyway.....
Saw a 'doco' on the Gimli Glider on the telle a few months ago.
Can't remember which Channel - may have been one of those "Air Disaster' items. Was well presented though. Those guys driving their dragsters on the strip sure got out of the way fast....in the 'remake' anyway.....
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The F/O didn't have time to get to page 3 of his QRH Dual Engine Failure Ditching where it states "Ditching PB"
This release might help folk:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[FONT='Verdana', 'sans-serif']1600 press conference:
This release might help folk:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- >First Officer Jeffrey B. Skiles, joined US Airways (USAir) in 1986. He has a total of 15,643 flight hours and previously flew as Captain with US Airways.
- Flight Attendant Sheila Dail joined US Airways (Piedmont Airlines) in 1980 and has more than 28 years experience with the airline.
- Flight Attendant Doreen Welsh joined US Airways (Allegheny Airlines) in 1970 and has more than 38 years experience with the airline.
- Flight Attendant Donna Dent joined US Airways (Piedmont Airlines) in 1982 and has more than 26 years experience with the airline.
[FONT='Verdana', 'sans-serif']1600 press conference:
- Since there was little to report, the NTSB decided to hold another press conference at 8:00pm.
- Onboard was one lap child and one toddler.
- Since the weight of the airplane full of water was approximately 1 million pounds, it needed to be lifted very gradually to let water drain from the aircraft.
- Water depth at impact was 50-55 feet.
- A correction to prior information, the right engine is still attached; still looking for the left engine.
- ATC communications were read out loud: of particular interest to us was the crew stating, "Cactus 1549 hit birds - lost thrust both engines – turning back to LGA"
- TEB airport was discussed, pilots stated,"...we can’t do it..."
- Two Flight Attendants were interviewed. They reported hearing loud thuds/thumps and all engine noise ceased, aircraft sounded, [/font]"...like a library..."
- Captain announced, "brace for impact;" F/A’s yelled,"Brace, Brace, Brace"
- Left front slide needed manual inflation.
- Front door, 2’-3’ above water line.
- Captain returned to aircraft twice to check for passengers. Captain and crew members were the last to leave. 'sans-serif']2000 press conference:
- NYPD has good radar “hit” on the lost engine. NOAA boat is en-route 3rd F/A has been released from hospital. Her account - "loud thunk, smelled electrical smell". Harder landing description than other F/A’s described (AFT B flight attendant position). No broken leg, deep lacerations.
- This was the last leg of a 4-day trip. They had flown PIT-CLT-LGA & were on their way to CLT
- >Captain, 3800 hrs in A-320
- >First Officer, 35 hours in an A-320
- >First Officer was initial PF
- >First Officer stated he saw birds 3-5000’ off to his right
- >Captain looked up & said the windscreen was filled w/big dark brown birds. Said his reaction was to duck
- >Captain smelled burning birds
- >Loss of thrust, Captain, “my aircraft”. First Officer, “your aircraft”. Captain lowered nose because speed had decreased
- >Captain said power loss was symmetrical
- >Captain took over as PF & called for the Dual Engine failure check list
- >Captain said initial plan was to return to LGA. He said he was too slow & too low, it was too populated. Teterboro was too far, populated and would be catastrophic if he didn’t make it. As stated in earlier brief, he stated, "going to be in the Hudson".
- >Captain focused on flying
- >First Officer focused on checklist & starting engines
- This checklist is meant to run at FL350
- Captain called for flaps 2
- Captain made the “brace” call over the P/A
- >Captain said he had been trained to ditch near a vessel if able, so he tried to land close to a boat
- >The aircraft lost electrical once in the water
- Captain called for Evacuation, F/A’s had already initiated it
- Captain stated that, "he could not be more happy that he got everyone off”.
- First Officer saw the birds, noted to himself that they were in a nice line
- Ditching P/B was not pushed. It is on page 3 of the checklist; they didn’t get to it
- First Officer, while low time in AB, but typed in other aircraft, glass cockpit, has been a Captain before, IOE was completed.
- Captain estimated the aircraft hit the birds between 220 & 250kts
- How did F/A get lacerations? Don’t know. Water was cold; she didn’t know she was hurt initially. After she sent passengers up the isle, she realized she was bleeding & got herself out and into the raft
- Is CVR powered after crash? Powered until power goes out.
Last edited by Choi oi; 21st Jan 2009 at 06:05.