End of an era - last QF 747-300 departs
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Last of the F/E's
CK, I have not taken offense at your suggestion. I know only too well that the Cockpit Crew in Qantas has been reduced to only Pilots. I am just surprised that you seem to want the term Tech Crew removed, almost before the last -300 gets to the desert. I never bothered with a job description when introducing mates, Pilots, Nav's or F/E's. If those to whom I introduced my mates wanted to know it would usually come out in conversation.
The term Tech Crew is really an "in house" one anyway. If being known as the Pilot is important to you, your choice of course. Just got the impression you feel the term somehow implies a reduction in your importance.
Times do change I know, few would describe a good night out these days as "being a gay old time" as the song says.
Happy, long and smooth flying.
The term Tech Crew is really an "in house" one anyway. If being known as the Pilot is important to you, your choice of course. Just got the impression you feel the term somehow implies a reduction in your importance.
Times do change I know, few would describe a good night out these days as "being a gay old time" as the song says.
Happy, long and smooth flying.
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Capt Kremin....
It could be a lot worse as I remember that BA Cabin Crew used to refer to their flight deck crew as 'Nigels'.....I'm not going to speculate why...maybe a lot of them were named Nigel....you'd have to ask them.
As far as our Cabin Crew are concerned ,when I started with QF, we were called Flight Stewards....the girls were called Flight Hostesses and it was not until the politically correct era began that we became Flight attendants....
I also imagine that the reason why ground Engineers were not called tech crew was because they were not crew on the aircraft.....they were ground engineers and crew were the people who worked on the aircraft when it did what is was supposed to do...fly
In the end though does it really matter?
As long as they paid me and there was a cold beer or two and a quiet room at the end of the day I don't care what my title was...
Especially when Hairdressers started calling themselves Hair technicians....
It could be a lot worse as I remember that BA Cabin Crew used to refer to their flight deck crew as 'Nigels'.....I'm not going to speculate why...maybe a lot of them were named Nigel....you'd have to ask them.
As far as our Cabin Crew are concerned ,when I started with QF, we were called Flight Stewards....the girls were called Flight Hostesses and it was not until the politically correct era began that we became Flight attendants....
I also imagine that the reason why ground Engineers were not called tech crew was because they were not crew on the aircraft.....they were ground engineers and crew were the people who worked on the aircraft when it did what is was supposed to do...fly
In the end though does it really matter?
As long as they paid me and there was a cold beer or two and a quiet room at the end of the day I don't care what my title was...
Especially when Hairdressers started calling themselves Hair technicians....
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'tis minor thread drift, but I always thought the job specs of Flight Hostess and Flight Steward called for different roles. Nanny skills and European conversational savoire faire from one group, and sommelier and life-raft lugging from t'other group. When the role distinction went, the Flight Attendant arrived.
Having followed the thread, I now agree with Captain K. Tech crew was a convenient term in it's day. It is now redundant.
Having followed the thread, I now agree with Captain K. Tech crew was a convenient term in it's day. It is now redundant.
LL, the term Tech crew was used when there were several job descriptions on a flight deck. There used to be four, now there is only one-pilot.
Flight attendants used to be called air hostesses until the advent of males into the job. Now the job is called Flight attendant. We have moved on.
I don't see this as being revolutionary, or offensive. Airliners are now crewed by only pilots and Flight attendants. Why would people take offense. I never got a Tech crew license or studied to be a tech crew. The passengers call us pilots, not tech crew. They don't even know what the term means.
Flight attendants used to be called air hostesses until the advent of males into the job. Now the job is called Flight attendant. We have moved on.
I don't see this as being revolutionary, or offensive. Airliners are now crewed by only pilots and Flight attendants. Why would people take offense. I never got a Tech crew license or studied to be a tech crew. The passengers call us pilots, not tech crew. They don't even know what the term means.
I've got no problem with being called either a pilot or tech crew though.
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Year ago, when Australia's then second biggest airline (now only a memory) retired it's last F/E crewed airplane - and I can't remember whether it was the B743 or the B727 - it was suggested that all manuals be amended to remove the term 'technical crew'.
It was soundly knocked on the head as being a particularly ridiculous idea. From memory the reason was that it might be a bit of an ask to have the cabin crew re-learn the common term for us flightdeck-dwellers.
Sounds as though the wheel just keeps on turning.
As someone once said to me; "I don't care what they call me, so long as they don't call me late for dinner."
18 Wheeler, if you were truly unlucky in this life and were forced to work for Australia's current second biggest airline (and let's face it, life's too short by far for that caper ((prepare for incoming
)), you'd have to call passengers by the exalted term 'guests'!!! Oh yes, and you'd have to make mention of 'boys and girls' in every P.A. too.
And for those who don't get the irony...I have many friends who love working for them, and it's their legs that I'm so obviously pulling. So to speak.
It was soundly knocked on the head as being a particularly ridiculous idea. From memory the reason was that it might be a bit of an ask to have the cabin crew re-learn the common term for us flightdeck-dwellers.
Sounds as though the wheel just keeps on turning.
As someone once said to me; "I don't care what they call me, so long as they don't call me late for dinner."
18 Wheeler, if you were truly unlucky in this life and were forced to work for Australia's current second biggest airline (and let's face it, life's too short by far for that caper ((prepare for incoming
)), you'd have to call passengers by the exalted term 'guests'!!! Oh yes, and you'd have to make mention of 'boys and girls' in every P.A. too. And for those who don't get the irony...I have many friends who love working for them, and it's their legs that I'm so obviously pulling. So to speak.
yawn
Ah-hem .... they're not passengers any more, they're 'customers' - which ****s me greatly.
When I'm not flying around in the left seat of my bug-smasher, I'm SLF on big planes. And I'm a passenger, not a customer.
Customer is when I walk into a store and have a bit of a browse and then walk out again with or without goods tucked under my arm.
Passenger is when I step on the conveyance of my choice, and step off some time later at a new place. Different. Calling me a customer somehow denigrates the whole transport bit.
While I'm at it, I could never figure why Qantas had to rename the Flight Service Director (now that title had some presence, and for SLF the FSD seemed to have real authority) to friggin' Customer Service Manager - sounds like someone at the front desk in Coles.
Grumpy old man? You betchya!
Bow Tie
To return to the thread for a moment....
The TECH CREW who delivered the last QF B747-300 to Marana are here in LAX about to invade a crew room after the bar has closed to discuss the various issues concerning the loss of the last QF B743.
I am about to join them. I feel qualified after 21 years and over 13,000 hours in various flight deck seats, starting as FEO.
Sic transit gloria!!!
Oh yes, I care not whether I am referred to as "Tech Crew".
The TECH CREW who delivered the last QF B747-300 to Marana are here in LAX about to invade a crew room after the bar has closed to discuss the various issues concerning the loss of the last QF B743.
I am about to join them. I feel qualified after 21 years and over 13,000 hours in various flight deck seats, starting as FEO.
Sic transit gloria!!!
Oh yes, I care not whether I am referred to as "Tech Crew".
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That era has passed so please just call me what I am.
(um, by the way, I think you will find it is 'Licence' and 'Offence', don't trust Billy's spell checker!)
A sad sight VH-EBV
Gordstar, hope that works.
Oops, as cool banana says, this piccy is of one of the SPs being broken up a few years ago. I should have had a closer look before posting. Apologies for the duff gen. GB
Last edited by Going Boeing; 23rd Jan 2009 at 07:14.
Capt.K
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Well you see, that is the point isn't it? These terms are generally used to diminish the worth of the other person, usually for very small-minded reasons.
Some here want to call me a driver or a systems operator yet I do exactly the same job as the pilots who recently did such an outstanding job in the Hudson, over the Philipines and off WA.
Not only the pilots but all the respective flight attendants as well. The defining characteristic of these people were not that they were somehow the only people who could have saved those situations, but that they were bog standard crews doing what they were all trained to do.
So when people call a Flight Attendant a "bun tosser", I let them know rather quickly that I don't care for the remark. The flight attendants on the Hudson A320 did a fantastic job. 10 minutes after probably discussing with their colleagues some idle gossip or details of their day, they were standing on a wing in an icy river with every single one of their passengers accounted for. In short, they did their job.
I talked to one of the QF girls down in the back galley when the QF30 has its incident. She'd been in the company a couple of months. When the bottle blew, she heard an enormous explosion and the aircraft pitched suddenly down very quickly (John and the boys doing their jobs)! Her first thought was that Al Quaida had got them and they were going down. She thought she was going to die. When it eventually became apparent that the aircraft was under control, she pulled herself together, assisted the passengers both in the air and after the incident on the ground. She did her job and did it brilliantly.
You can make light of my little campaign, but I believe in giving people due respect. Every one of us may one day be thrust into the same situations these people faced. Those people aren't bun-tossers, systems operators or drivers. They are pilots (and formerly flight engineers) and flight attendants.
Don't publicly diminish our own jobs and then complain when management doesn't show you any respect.
Some here want to call me a driver or a systems operator yet I do exactly the same job as the pilots who recently did such an outstanding job in the Hudson, over the Philipines and off WA.
Not only the pilots but all the respective flight attendants as well. The defining characteristic of these people were not that they were somehow the only people who could have saved those situations, but that they were bog standard crews doing what they were all trained to do.
So when people call a Flight Attendant a "bun tosser", I let them know rather quickly that I don't care for the remark. The flight attendants on the Hudson A320 did a fantastic job. 10 minutes after probably discussing with their colleagues some idle gossip or details of their day, they were standing on a wing in an icy river with every single one of their passengers accounted for. In short, they did their job.
I talked to one of the QF girls down in the back galley when the QF30 has its incident. She'd been in the company a couple of months. When the bottle blew, she heard an enormous explosion and the aircraft pitched suddenly down very quickly (John and the boys doing their jobs)! Her first thought was that Al Quaida had got them and they were going down. She thought she was going to die. When it eventually became apparent that the aircraft was under control, she pulled herself together, assisted the passengers both in the air and after the incident on the ground. She did her job and did it brilliantly.
You can make light of my little campaign, but I believe in giving people due respect. Every one of us may one day be thrust into the same situations these people faced. Those people aren't bun-tossers, systems operators or drivers. They are pilots (and formerly flight engineers) and flight attendants.
Don't publicly diminish our own jobs and then complain when management doesn't show you any respect.
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Little Campaign
CK. Your "little campaign" is a little flawed. I think you have confirmed my initial belief was correct. Although you say you are not demeaned by being known as Tech Crew in a previous post, (#61 I think), you say now in your latest that the term is usually meant to diminish the worth of another. You add "Don't publicly diminish our own jobs etc etc". By the way, I am one who openly condemned former PM Bob Hawke when he classified pilots as "nothing more than glorified bus drivers", not because I thought it demeaned pilots, but rather because it demeaned bus drivers.
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Old Fella you really come across as a bitter and twisted old man, why don'd you start another thread to push whatever point you are trying to make.
Now back to the topic, very sorry to see the old girl go. Got a great view of the departure at Mascot and was surprised there was not a bigger turnout to see her off.
Now back to the topic, very sorry to see the old girl go. Got a great view of the departure at Mascot and was surprised there was not a bigger turnout to see her off.