Jetstar closing Cns base quietly?
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Genex stop swallowing all your own rhetoric. You are as bad as all the Qantas people you belittle.
Let's compare apples with apples shall we.
This charter market you talk of ,what is the population fetch in Europe compared to Australia? What size charter market will Australia support in comparison to the established market in Europe? Will the general weather in Australia affect this new supposed untapped market?
JetStar the saviour? Still not convinced on that one mate.
Yes if you compare Jetstars A320 operation to Qantas' B737 operation large savings have been achieved and a sizable nonexistant market stimulated as a result of the lower airfares offered in a market where cheap airfares never existed prior.
If I recall the rates of pay and contract on the 737 were not even negotiated by AIPA nor in fact did Qantas have anything to do with this contract when it first came about thanks to that year that will never be mentioned. Were those pilots dinosaurs? What were the relative comparisons between those pilots and Qantas pilots of the time if a snap shot was taken. I think you would be surprised.
Let's compare the closest thing to the JetStar A330 contract shall we.
That would have to be the B767 in Qantas and even to a certain extent the A330 operation as well.
A rough look at these operations will show there is no where near the 30-40% price differential that is routinely touted around to justify the usurping of Qantas by JetStar.There has also been many cheaper International airline alternatives to Qantas , for a long time, yet Qantas still managed to prosper.
If Management were truly honest about reforming Qantas from a quasi Government entity into a modern day airline able to stand on it's own two feet ,why has Qantas still one of the highest staff to aircraft ratios in the world? How many years has Dixon had to effect this requirement? What sections of the company still require reform to bring them into line with modern day Internationally accepted standard practices?
I can bet you will find that Qantas Flight Ops will not be at the top of that list ,far from it!
It would appear to many in Qantas ,that Dixon took the easy road to reforming the business . He ignored Qantas and concentrated on his WorkChoices conceived bastard child instead.
Why? because that road would be an easier one to follow under a greenfields business case as delivered by WorkChoices.
Unfortunatey this plan(The Dixon Plan?) has had more twists and turns in it than Management's promises.
WorkChoices never eventuated as planned, management have been thwarted with late arrivals of new equipment thereby neutering any ability to use the operational redundancy provisions contained within.
A change of Federal Government prior to the full blown Workchoices package being delivered has meant a change in tactics.
What will this mean?
Unfortunately I belive it will mean even more bastardry from management
as they try to manoeuver around the laws of the land to give the best looking business model.
If you believe JetStar is in the box seat as a result of this, maybe.
I would however be looking over the ditch at New Zealand and any expansion of operations there and in Vietnam before I became too smug about my own situation. Where did Buchanan say the 787's would be going? A big hint here, not based in Australia!
Are Qantas pilots dinosaurs?
I don't believe so.
AIPA has proven it's bonafides many times in the past with reference to change.
Where I believe the problem lays is that AIPA in todays industrial landscape can never promote the required change quick enough, and still keep it' members on side to satisfy management's plans to line their own pockets. EBA8 may have been a result of this phenomenom.
There basically lies the problem.
WorkChoices created a revolution in the industrial landscape and unfortunately the responsible unions that wished to change and have changed with the times in the past could only do so at an evolutionary rate .A rate not quick enough to satisfy the wolves!
Does that qualify them as dinosaurs????
In a post recessionary world the dinosaurs I believe will be shown to be the business management pariah's who caused the financial meltdown in the first place!
Let's compare apples with apples shall we.
This charter market you talk of ,what is the population fetch in Europe compared to Australia? What size charter market will Australia support in comparison to the established market in Europe? Will the general weather in Australia affect this new supposed untapped market?
JetStar the saviour? Still not convinced on that one mate.
Yes if you compare Jetstars A320 operation to Qantas' B737 operation large savings have been achieved and a sizable nonexistant market stimulated as a result of the lower airfares offered in a market where cheap airfares never existed prior.
If I recall the rates of pay and contract on the 737 were not even negotiated by AIPA nor in fact did Qantas have anything to do with this contract when it first came about thanks to that year that will never be mentioned. Were those pilots dinosaurs? What were the relative comparisons between those pilots and Qantas pilots of the time if a snap shot was taken. I think you would be surprised.
Let's compare the closest thing to the JetStar A330 contract shall we.
That would have to be the B767 in Qantas and even to a certain extent the A330 operation as well.
A rough look at these operations will show there is no where near the 30-40% price differential that is routinely touted around to justify the usurping of Qantas by JetStar.There has also been many cheaper International airline alternatives to Qantas , for a long time, yet Qantas still managed to prosper.
If Management were truly honest about reforming Qantas from a quasi Government entity into a modern day airline able to stand on it's own two feet ,why has Qantas still one of the highest staff to aircraft ratios in the world? How many years has Dixon had to effect this requirement? What sections of the company still require reform to bring them into line with modern day Internationally accepted standard practices?
I can bet you will find that Qantas Flight Ops will not be at the top of that list ,far from it!
It would appear to many in Qantas ,that Dixon took the easy road to reforming the business . He ignored Qantas and concentrated on his WorkChoices conceived bastard child instead.
Why? because that road would be an easier one to follow under a greenfields business case as delivered by WorkChoices.
Unfortunatey this plan(The Dixon Plan?) has had more twists and turns in it than Management's promises.
WorkChoices never eventuated as planned, management have been thwarted with late arrivals of new equipment thereby neutering any ability to use the operational redundancy provisions contained within.
A change of Federal Government prior to the full blown Workchoices package being delivered has meant a change in tactics.
What will this mean?
Unfortunately I belive it will mean even more bastardry from management
as they try to manoeuver around the laws of the land to give the best looking business model.
If you believe JetStar is in the box seat as a result of this, maybe.
I would however be looking over the ditch at New Zealand and any expansion of operations there and in Vietnam before I became too smug about my own situation. Where did Buchanan say the 787's would be going? A big hint here, not based in Australia!
Are Qantas pilots dinosaurs?
I don't believe so.
AIPA has proven it's bonafides many times in the past with reference to change.
Where I believe the problem lays is that AIPA in todays industrial landscape can never promote the required change quick enough, and still keep it' members on side to satisfy management's plans to line their own pockets. EBA8 may have been a result of this phenomenom.
There basically lies the problem.
WorkChoices created a revolution in the industrial landscape and unfortunately the responsible unions that wished to change and have changed with the times in the past could only do so at an evolutionary rate .A rate not quick enough to satisfy the wolves!
Does that qualify them as dinosaurs????
In a post recessionary world the dinosaurs I believe will be shown to be the business management pariah's who caused the financial meltdown in the first place!
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 28th Dec 2008 at 01:11.
Bit of basic airmanship advice mate...
If you ever get to fly a real big jet, crossing the fence One Dot Low might bite you one day.
I prefer accuracy myself but I learned to fly jets from professionals.
If you ever get to fly a real big jet, crossing the fence One Dot Low might bite you one day.
I prefer accuracy myself but I learned to fly jets from professionals.
Ill watch out for that this evening when I 'get to fly a real big jet' whilst I go to work with another professional.
I don't even know if you fly or not, nor do I really care, but have you ever considered that it may be you and your uninformed opinion, and not necessarily JQ that people don't like here.
You're still a wally, "mate"!
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GenEx- you are my hero.
"Anyone waiting for high-cost-high-yield traffic to prop up QF Mainline will be waiting a long time. I doubt that the Board will want Jetstar to continue propping up the dinosaur operation for much longer."
I mean you honestly know what you are talking about. Obviously Qantas running daily flights out of Osaka, Tokyo, Fukuoka, Nagoya, Sapporo as well as other places in the past- which took them decades to cement in the Japanese market, but which ultimately was a real bread winner for Qantas- was flawed.
You should run the Qantas Group marketing strategy board- you have the same ideas as them. The Japanese love JetStar so much that the travel bureaus up there bus or train their passengers out of Osaka/Kobe and Nagoya to Narita to get on the Qantas flights. I operated many flights out of Osaka and Nagoya before they were given to Australian and ultimately JetStar and I can assure you that we never had more than 10 spare seats. So its working well- keep up the good work.
And as for that pesky onedotlow character. Obviously doesnt know what he is talking about. I mean why would you fly one dot low when you have a vasi set up for a jumbo and you are flying something with a lower eye crossing height? What a loser! Tell him to get a life.
"Anyone waiting for high-cost-high-yield traffic to prop up QF Mainline will be waiting a long time. I doubt that the Board will want Jetstar to continue propping up the dinosaur operation for much longer."
I mean you honestly know what you are talking about. Obviously Qantas running daily flights out of Osaka, Tokyo, Fukuoka, Nagoya, Sapporo as well as other places in the past- which took them decades to cement in the Japanese market, but which ultimately was a real bread winner for Qantas- was flawed.
You should run the Qantas Group marketing strategy board- you have the same ideas as them. The Japanese love JetStar so much that the travel bureaus up there bus or train their passengers out of Osaka/Kobe and Nagoya to Narita to get on the Qantas flights. I operated many flights out of Osaka and Nagoya before they were given to Australian and ultimately JetStar and I can assure you that we never had more than 10 spare seats. So its working well- keep up the good work.
And as for that pesky onedotlow character. Obviously doesnt know what he is talking about. I mean why would you fly one dot low when you have a vasi set up for a jumbo and you are flying something with a lower eye crossing height? What a loser! Tell him to get a life.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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JetStar INT In Limbo
Jetstar domestic does what it was invented very well.
JetStar INT is a different story.Poor load factors;In and out of ports trying to make them work and failing.
JetStar in Japan doesnt pay commissions to travel agents and doesnt do package deals.This is what the market wants.JetStar doesnt satisfy the market.
Cost apportioning by mainline and it still bleeds red ink.
Dixons illegitimate child needs to be closed down.
Rumours around suggest that it might merge with AirAsia
JetStar INT is a different story.Poor load factors;In and out of ports trying to make them work and failing.
JetStar in Japan doesnt pay commissions to travel agents and doesnt do package deals.This is what the market wants.JetStar doesnt satisfy the market.
Cost apportioning by mainline and it still bleeds red ink.
Dixons illegitimate child needs to be closed down.
Rumours around suggest that it might merge with AirAsia
Join Date: Dec 2007
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This is the silly season isn't it? We're getting done at the MCG...lighten up. I don't even believe half of what I think let alone what I write so don't take it too seriously.
Too elaborate a little.....
Other than that, hope you all had a Happy Christmas and that 2009 will be fun. If reading anything I write troubles you....don't. Your life will be neither better nor worse for that omission.
Too elaborate a little.....
- Passengers are not stupid....they do vote with their feet. Being good as an airline management team means being vaguely ahead of the game and having something the passengers want, good, bad or indifferent
- Cross the threshold with as many dots either way as you like....you shouldn't be looking then anyway....just touchdown in the right place and stop well before the far end
- There are no VH registered 777s yet in service and if you're flying anything else you are, as Paul Keating said...."Camping Out"
Other than that, hope you all had a Happy Christmas and that 2009 will be fun. If reading anything I write troubles you....don't. Your life will be neither better nor worse for that omission.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I'd be interested to know how the hybrid International services on their domestic aircraft are doing - loads and yields. I know they're promoting DRW as a strategic hub, which would explain the shift of focus from CNS.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I know the talk has focused on JQI and its pros/cons, but didnt this thread start about the crew base and not whether about the flights terminating?
Havent heard rumours of either, but even if the base was to close, doesnt mean the flights wont operate. There is the same level of activity as there has been for the past year ex CNS (1 x A330 & 1 x A320), neither of which really need a crew base.
In particular DRW/SIN is better crewed from DRW, as not overnights needed. Lets wait and see.....
Havent heard rumours of either, but even if the base was to close, doesnt mean the flights wont operate. There is the same level of activity as there has been for the past year ex CNS (1 x A330 & 1 x A320), neither of which really need a crew base.
In particular DRW/SIN is better crewed from DRW, as not overnights needed. Lets wait and see.....
Join Date: Mar 2005
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TMAK, as you say lets' see what happens to the proposed DRW A320/1 base (by mid 2009).
The inital set-up will happen when ( and how more likely) JQ can get tech crews. The first of many f/a ground schools was completed last month, with more to follow under the Team J* 'banner'.
The inital set-up will happen when ( and how more likely) JQ can get tech crews. The first of many f/a ground schools was completed last month, with more to follow under the Team J* 'banner'.
