Qantas A330 Emergency Landing in Learmonth
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The latest from CH9 web news
cut and pasted from the site;
Air safety investigators say there was an "irregularity" in the onboard computer equipment of a Qantas plane involved in a mid-air incident over Western Australia.
A second team of investigators was travelling to Learmonth, in the state's north, to find the cause of the incident which injured about 20 passengers and crew on board flight QF72 travelling from Singapore to Perth.
The pilots sent a mayday call shortly before making an emergency landing at the regional airstrip, 40km from Exmouth on WA's Gascoyne coast.
Qantas on Wednesday said the cause of the "sudden change in altitude" was speculation.
Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) director of aviation safety investigation Julian Walshe said the plane was travelling at 37,000 feet when the incident happened.
"The pilots received electronic centralised aircraft monitoring messages in the cockpit relating to some irregularity with the aircraft's elevator control system," he told reporters in Canberra on Wednesday.
The aircraft then climbed about 300 feet before "abruptly" pitching nose down.
Passengers arriving in Perth on Tuesday night told of their horror as the drop threw them and their personal belongings across the plane.
Jim Ford, of Perth, said he thought he was about to die as he watched people being thrown around the cabin.
"It was horrendous, absolutely gruesome, terrible, the worst experience of my life," he said.
Ben Cave, of Perth, said for a few seconds he had feared for his life and "saw a bit of a flash before me".
"We had a major fall and another fall shortly after.
"I hit the ceiling but I was OK, I only got a few bruises and strains. I just remember seeing that the plane was a mess."
Henry and Doreen Bishop, of Oxford, England, said it was one of the worst experiences of their lives.
"People were screaming but they cut off any panic that might have started...", Mr Bishop said.
"I put it down to life. The titanic hit an iceberg, we hit an air pocket."
A spokesman for Perth's Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital said one of the 20 passengers it treated on Tuesday night was in a serious but stable condition. Eight people were under observation and 11 other patients were discharged, he said. Injuries included fractures, lacerations and suspected spinal injuries.
WA Police Commissioner Karl O'Callaghan was forced to activate the state crisis centre because of the number of injuries.
"It seems that there might have been some sort of systems failure, we're not sure yet, we're still waiting for further information," Dr O'Callaghan told ABC Radio.
The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder have been quarantined and sent to Canberra for testing.
Two ATSB investigators were immediately flown to WA, while another five were on their way to the site where the plane landed to interview passengers and crew, Mr Walshe said.
An officer from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority has joined the team, as well as an investigator from the Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses (BEA), which is the French counterpart to the ATSB.
The BEA officer has been assigned to the investigation because the plane was manufactured in France.
An investigator from Airbus is also travelling to Australia and will also assist the investigations.
"It is obviously very early in the investigation and too soon to draw any conclusions as to the specific cause of the accident," Mr Walshe said.
The ATSB investigation would explore all aspects of the aircraft's operation, including the flight's black boxes, on-board computer systems, air traffic control and radar warnings and weather conditions, he said.
"The ATSB will also be conducting a range of interviews with the pilots and cabin crew and will also speak with passengers to examine the cabin safety aspects."
The investigation was likely to take some months but the ATSB would release a preliminary report within 30 days, Mr Walshe said.
It was unclear how far in altitude the aircraft dropped during the incident.
The Australian and International Pilots' Association on Wednesday said turbulence was not uncommon on that flight path.
Captain Ian Woods said most modern passenger planes were built to cope with changes in altitude.
"When you cross those jet streams as you do from Singapore to Perth ... you run across the transition boundary," Capt Woods, also a Qantas pilot, told ABC Radio.
"It's at that point where you're crossing from smooth air to fast-flowing air, that there can be quite unexpected and significant turbulence."
This could cause a "jet upset", Capt Woods said.
"So if you're unfortunate enough to run into that, and it sounds like that's what's happened, then certainly it's unexpected and you can get outcomes like this."
Capt Woods said turbulence was nothing pilots "can't cope with".
"Aeroplanes have been ... refined over the years and if we go back to the 50s, then these kinds of events were worse than they are now."
Air safety investigators say there was an "irregularity" in the onboard computer equipment of a Qantas plane involved in a mid-air incident over Western Australia.
A second team of investigators was travelling to Learmonth, in the state's north, to find the cause of the incident which injured about 20 passengers and crew on board flight QF72 travelling from Singapore to Perth.
The pilots sent a mayday call shortly before making an emergency landing at the regional airstrip, 40km from Exmouth on WA's Gascoyne coast.
Qantas on Wednesday said the cause of the "sudden change in altitude" was speculation.
Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) director of aviation safety investigation Julian Walshe said the plane was travelling at 37,000 feet when the incident happened.
"The pilots received electronic centralised aircraft monitoring messages in the cockpit relating to some irregularity with the aircraft's elevator control system," he told reporters in Canberra on Wednesday.
The aircraft then climbed about 300 feet before "abruptly" pitching nose down.
Passengers arriving in Perth on Tuesday night told of their horror as the drop threw them and their personal belongings across the plane.
Jim Ford, of Perth, said he thought he was about to die as he watched people being thrown around the cabin.
"It was horrendous, absolutely gruesome, terrible, the worst experience of my life," he said.
Ben Cave, of Perth, said for a few seconds he had feared for his life and "saw a bit of a flash before me".
"We had a major fall and another fall shortly after.
"I hit the ceiling but I was OK, I only got a few bruises and strains. I just remember seeing that the plane was a mess."
Henry and Doreen Bishop, of Oxford, England, said it was one of the worst experiences of their lives.
"People were screaming but they cut off any panic that might have started...", Mr Bishop said.
"I put it down to life. The titanic hit an iceberg, we hit an air pocket."
A spokesman for Perth's Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital said one of the 20 passengers it treated on Tuesday night was in a serious but stable condition. Eight people were under observation and 11 other patients were discharged, he said. Injuries included fractures, lacerations and suspected spinal injuries.
WA Police Commissioner Karl O'Callaghan was forced to activate the state crisis centre because of the number of injuries.
"It seems that there might have been some sort of systems failure, we're not sure yet, we're still waiting for further information," Dr O'Callaghan told ABC Radio.
The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder have been quarantined and sent to Canberra for testing.
Two ATSB investigators were immediately flown to WA, while another five were on their way to the site where the plane landed to interview passengers and crew, Mr Walshe said.
An officer from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority has joined the team, as well as an investigator from the Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses (BEA), which is the French counterpart to the ATSB.
The BEA officer has been assigned to the investigation because the plane was manufactured in France.
An investigator from Airbus is also travelling to Australia and will also assist the investigations.
"It is obviously very early in the investigation and too soon to draw any conclusions as to the specific cause of the accident," Mr Walshe said.
The ATSB investigation would explore all aspects of the aircraft's operation, including the flight's black boxes, on-board computer systems, air traffic control and radar warnings and weather conditions, he said.
"The ATSB will also be conducting a range of interviews with the pilots and cabin crew and will also speak with passengers to examine the cabin safety aspects."
The investigation was likely to take some months but the ATSB would release a preliminary report within 30 days, Mr Walshe said.
It was unclear how far in altitude the aircraft dropped during the incident.
The Australian and International Pilots' Association on Wednesday said turbulence was not uncommon on that flight path.
Captain Ian Woods said most modern passenger planes were built to cope with changes in altitude.
"When you cross those jet streams as you do from Singapore to Perth ... you run across the transition boundary," Capt Woods, also a Qantas pilot, told ABC Radio.
"It's at that point where you're crossing from smooth air to fast-flowing air, that there can be quite unexpected and significant turbulence."
This could cause a "jet upset", Capt Woods said.
"So if you're unfortunate enough to run into that, and it sounds like that's what's happened, then certainly it's unexpected and you can get outcomes like this."
Capt Woods said turbulence was nothing pilots "can't cope with".
"Aeroplanes have been ... refined over the years and if we go back to the 50s, then these kinds of events were worse than they are now."
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Qantas plunge: computer 'irregularity' - Travel - smh.com.au
Two Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigators are on the ground at Learmonth and five more are expected to arrive there later today.
The bureau's director of aviation safety investigation, Julian Walshe, said the plane was travelling at 37,000 feet and 110 miles (177 kilometres) north of Carnarvon when the incident occurred.
"The pilots received electronic centralised aircraft monitoring messages in the cockpit relating to some irregularity with the aircraft's elevator control system," he told reporters in Canberra.
The aircraft then "departed level flight", and climbed approximately 300 feet.
"The crew had initiated the non-normal checklist response actions.
"The aircraft is then reported to have abruptly pitched nose down."
A number of passengers, cabin crew and loose objects were thrown about the aircraft cabin, primarily in the rear of the aircraft, resulting in a number of injuries to some cabin crew and passengers, Mr Walshe said.
The crew made an emergency broadcast to air traffic control, reporting that some people had been injured.
The pilot also made a request to land the plane at Learmonth.
"A few minutes later, the crew upgraded that broadcast and declared a mayday and advised air traffic control of multiple injuries, including broken bones and lacerations," Mr Walshe said.
The bureau's director of aviation safety investigation, Julian Walshe, said the plane was travelling at 37,000 feet and 110 miles (177 kilometres) north of Carnarvon when the incident occurred.
"The pilots received electronic centralised aircraft monitoring messages in the cockpit relating to some irregularity with the aircraft's elevator control system," he told reporters in Canberra.
The aircraft then "departed level flight", and climbed approximately 300 feet.
"The crew had initiated the non-normal checklist response actions.
"The aircraft is then reported to have abruptly pitched nose down."
A number of passengers, cabin crew and loose objects were thrown about the aircraft cabin, primarily in the rear of the aircraft, resulting in a number of injuries to some cabin crew and passengers, Mr Walshe said.
The crew made an emergency broadcast to air traffic control, reporting that some people had been injured.
The pilot also made a request to land the plane at Learmonth.
"A few minutes later, the crew upgraded that broadcast and declared a mayday and advised air traffic control of multiple injuries, including broken bones and lacerations," Mr Walshe said.
Obviously Capt. Woods was responding to what was in the media but the phrase "Too early to speculate" stops you looking like a dill when you are conducting a media interview. Speculation on an anonymous forum however is entirely appropriate.
Given the 787 delays and the strike I think it's now "If its Boeing..it aint going!".
Given the 787 delays and the strike I think it's now "If its Boeing..it aint going!".
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Has anyone seen what happends when your trimmed way nose down and some one switches off the A/P When for some reasaon the auto trim is not working.
Could be described as a death plunge ?
Could be described as a death plunge ?
QF72...
G'Day 'Lefty',
"Having seen the damage first hand",
Much visible damage? Any visible to airframe - externally?
Understand cabin is / may be visibly damaged.
Just curious is all....
TA
"Having seen the damage first hand",
Much visible damage? Any visible to airframe - externally?
Understand cabin is / may be visibly damaged.
Just curious is all....
TA
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It was suggested by a caller on morning radio ( commercial however - grain of salt taken when digesting info) that the Mayday may have been called due to some control problems with the aircraft after the initial sudden drop of altitude and correction of said altitude deviation.
It was also suggested at the time that the cause may not be due to turbulence.
After this afternoon's early reports that an "irregularlty" has been found in the aircraft's computer system , I just wonder where the caller got his info from this a.m. It seemed that the said caller had a fair knowledge of the workings of CASA.....mmmmmmmmmm, this could get ugly for Q/F.
The final report will be very interesting!
It was also suggested at the time that the cause may not be due to turbulence.
After this afternoon's early reports that an "irregularlty" has been found in the aircraft's computer system , I just wonder where the caller got his info from this a.m. It seemed that the said caller had a fair knowledge of the workings of CASA.....mmmmmmmmmm, this could get ugly for Q/F.
The final report will be very interesting!
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Reporting of facts
It is interesting to note the message (#39) from Tail Wheel (Moderator) to Little Red Hat asking that only FACTS be reported and that SPECULATION is not warranted on this thread. It seems to me that more than a few of the posts on this thread are nothing but speculation and many are plain and simple cheap shots at Qantas and their operations. Worse, the comments regarding where the Captain should have landed and whether or not the emergency warranted a Mayday are being made by those not there. If the Captain considered a Mayday appropriate, and a landing at Learmonth justified, he made the correct decisions. You should all just sit tight and wait for an official report on the event.
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give over..
Enough please of all those "sit and wait for the facts" chest beater types. This is an anonymous internet forum, not the atsb fact files.
Nip down to the local atsb offices and wait outside if that’s what you want. No-one involved in the real incident gives a monkeys what’s posted here, so let’s take it a bit easier eh?
Nip down to the local atsb offices and wait outside if that’s what you want. No-one involved in the real incident gives a monkeys what’s posted here, so let’s take it a bit easier eh?
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Chest Beaters
boardpig. If you hadn't noticed, my post referred to the one by the Moderator which singled out Little Red Hat. Consistency would be appreciated. That said, most of the anonymous posts are just wild speculation which are doing nothing to add to our knowledge of the event. If you have not read Post #39, read it and you will see where I'm coming from.
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Have flown the 330 and 340 for several years and have conducted PRIM resets in flight on 3 occasions. If the AP is engaged there is a slight and sometimes a moderate "control jerk" when the computer resets to the normal computer configuration for the flight controls. Disconnecting the AP will stop this from being felt through the aircraft.... the guys on this flight (according to reports so far) received an ECAM, this is something that gives credence to a possibility of a computer failure or a flight control disagreement. For the aircraft to descend so rapidly would be very concerning not knowing why, they made a very good and correct decision to go to YPLM. (Just for those that like a niggle at those that were doing the correct thing).
Will be interesting to know what occured....
As a side..... when will passengers start to realise that this isn't the first time that a sudden change of altitude has resulted in injury.....and wear the bloody belt that is provided.
Will be interesting to know what occured....
As a side..... when will passengers start to realise that this isn't the first time that a sudden change of altitude has resulted in injury.....and wear the bloody belt that is provided.
"In defence of the computer, I ask whether anyone has sighted the jack-screw that controlled the elevator?"
Actually the only screw jack associated with pitch in the A330 is for the Trimmable Horizontal Stabilizer (THS) not the elevators.
Actually the only screw jack associated with pitch in the A330 is for the Trimmable Horizontal Stabilizer (THS) not the elevators.
Firstly, my best wishes to all injured for a speedy recovery.
Perhaps someone can provide a link, but wasn't there a similar incident in a SQ A340 near Alice Springs over 10 years ago? Human Factors issues led to a pilot turining off the hydraulics instead of transferring fuel from memory, but thats a pretty hazy memory.
I guess the moral to the story is that the SLF need a jolt (pardon the pun) every now and then to realise that there is some risk involved in air travel and that they should perhaps listen to safety briefings and advice like "We recommend you keep your seatbelts fastened unless moving around the cabin".
My sympathy goes to the Cabin Crew who don't have this option in the case of unexpected turbulence.
Sympathy to all the crew as well, most professionals feel heavily the duty of care to their passengers and as such they are bound to carry some level or personal distress over the injuries that have occured.
Safe flying folks.
Perhaps someone can provide a link, but wasn't there a similar incident in a SQ A340 near Alice Springs over 10 years ago? Human Factors issues led to a pilot turining off the hydraulics instead of transferring fuel from memory, but thats a pretty hazy memory.
I guess the moral to the story is that the SLF need a jolt (pardon the pun) every now and then to realise that there is some risk involved in air travel and that they should perhaps listen to safety briefings and advice like "We recommend you keep your seatbelts fastened unless moving around the cabin".
My sympathy goes to the Cabin Crew who don't have this option in the case of unexpected turbulence.
Sympathy to all the crew as well, most professionals feel heavily the duty of care to their passengers and as such they are bound to carry some level or personal distress over the injuries that have occured.
Safe flying folks.
Like a lot of you I have travelled thousands of times down the back to and from Oz. I can safely say that if the A/C suddenly dived for the deck I would be wetting my pants not knowing what the F was going on up front!!
And yes a SQ A340 crew turned off all the Hyd pumps by mistake and caused a rapid nose up or down ( can't remeber which ) pitch about 10 years ago over the GAFFA. Injured a few pax and crew if I recall.
Interesting event yesterday, we look forward to the investigation report.
Seems it was well handled by the crew. ( any landing you can walk away from )
And yes a SQ A340 crew turned off all the Hyd pumps by mistake and caused a rapid nose up or down ( can't remeber which ) pitch about 10 years ago over the GAFFA. Injured a few pax and crew if I recall.
Interesting event yesterday, we look forward to the investigation report.
Seems it was well handled by the crew. ( any landing you can walk away from )