QF 767 Narita
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QF 767 Narita
Whilst we're on the topic of Qantas failures and blunders, surely this near catastrophe rates a mention.
It's stayed underground for over 12 months....
Circa May/June 2007 a QF 767 bound for Aus, rotated below Vr on the short runway in Narita (possibly because the runway rushed up too quickly to greet them, and probably because they were in the red zone) and could have taken out a suburb of Narita in the process...
It's stayed underground for over 12 months....
Circa May/June 2007 a QF 767 bound for Aus, rotated below Vr on the short runway in Narita (possibly because the runway rushed up too quickly to greet them, and probably because they were in the red zone) and could have taken out a suburb of Narita in the process...
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Hmmm...sounds a doubtful. The shorter of the 2 RWYs is only ~2200m and I don't think that this would allow a B767 to lift sufficient fuel for a flight to Australia.
Aviation is an industry that thrives on rumours and yesterday's galley gossip has a habit of becoming today's 'fact'.
With due respect RJ, this sounds like a rather tall story.
Aviation is an industry that thrives on rumours and yesterday's galley gossip has a habit of becoming today's 'fact'.
With due respect RJ, this sounds like a rather tall story.
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Might have been just using the wrong runway Ralph; did the figures for the longer runway but used the short. Stranger things have happened in this business called aviation.
I recall a similar incident many,many years ago in Melbourne when a SQ 747 loaded to the hilt used R27 and dragged its gear through the approach array and hay bales for some hundreds of metres before struggling into the sky.
Fortunately it did get airborne because the Jacksons' creek valley is a couple of hundred feet deep and only a mile or so beyond the runway end.
As I recall it, they had done figures for R34, but had left the ATIS audio on and had become 'conditioned' to using 27 because it was being nominated as the duty RW.
But having said that, I do acknowledge that yesterday's galley rumours do get bandied around as fact a couple of days later.
I recall a similar incident many,many years ago in Melbourne when a SQ 747 loaded to the hilt used R27 and dragged its gear through the approach array and hay bales for some hundreds of metres before struggling into the sky.
Fortunately it did get airborne because the Jacksons' creek valley is a couple of hundred feet deep and only a mile or so beyond the runway end.
As I recall it, they had done figures for R34, but had left the ATIS audio on and had become 'conditioned' to using 27 because it was being nominated as the duty RW.
But having said that, I do acknowledge that yesterday's galley rumours do get bandied around as fact a couple of days later.
Last edited by relax737; 8th Aug 2008 at 09:31.
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Qantas do use the short runway at Narita, but only for Cairns flights.
The most likely cause for your sensationalist headline is that the Flap 15 speeds were used instead of Flap 5, be it via a page error or a flap setting error. The 6 or so knot difference in Vr would not have endangered the good residents of suburban Narita.
The most likely cause for your sensationalist headline is that the Flap 15 speeds were used instead of Flap 5, be it via a page error or a flap setting error. The 6 or so knot difference in Vr would not have endangered the good residents of suburban Narita.
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Ralf the 76 gets of the short runway all the time on the NRT-CNS flight using Flap 15.
I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I highly doubt. It would have been recorded as an event on QAR and an enquiry would have taken place, there has been none to my knowledge. Also those kind of stories go around tech crews like wildfire and I've not heard anything.
I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I highly doubt. It would have been recorded as an event on QAR and an enquiry would have taken place, there has been none to my knowledge. Also those kind of stories go around tech crews like wildfire and I've not heard anything.
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Where do you guys get off posting nonsense on PPrune; what could even be interpreted as slander?
"possibly", "probably", "might have been"? You guys have no idea.
QF 767's routinely use the shorter of the two runways in NRT.... for flights to and from Cairns. There is a quota system for the two rwys up there and QF has an allocation for movements on each rwy. The shorter rwy is tight but fine for a departure to Cairns. I did it many times when on the 76. Yes, you rotated near the end of the rwy, as the "reds" are approaching, but "below VR"? Nonsense.
The longer sectors (to from SYD, MEL, PER) always use the longer rwy.
On the short rwy the power used for takeoff was full charge. No derate. If the wind and temperature precluded a takeoff on the short rwy then you operationally required, and would receive, the longer rwy.
In any emergency, or if a u/s meant you needed the longer rwy for departure, then that's what you would get.
There is no way crews would "do the figures for the long and then use the short". If you've ever used the convoluted taxiways to reach the short rwy in NRT you'd understand there's no way you'd be confused.
Give it a break fellas before this crap ends up in the papers also.
"possibly", "probably", "might have been"? You guys have no idea.
QF 767's routinely use the shorter of the two runways in NRT.... for flights to and from Cairns. There is a quota system for the two rwys up there and QF has an allocation for movements on each rwy. The shorter rwy is tight but fine for a departure to Cairns. I did it many times when on the 76. Yes, you rotated near the end of the rwy, as the "reds" are approaching, but "below VR"? Nonsense.
The longer sectors (to from SYD, MEL, PER) always use the longer rwy.
On the short rwy the power used for takeoff was full charge. No derate. If the wind and temperature precluded a takeoff on the short rwy then you operationally required, and would receive, the longer rwy.
In any emergency, or if a u/s meant you needed the longer rwy for departure, then that's what you would get.
There is no way crews would "do the figures for the long and then use the short". If you've ever used the convoluted taxiways to reach the short rwy in NRT you'd understand there's no way you'd be confused.
Give it a break fellas before this crap ends up in the papers also.
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Jesus H Christ people!
While were at it why not stick the knife in the back of the Emirates A340 pilots at Johannesburg a few years ago that didnt rotate correctly and collected the localiser aerial at the end of the runway, dumped fuel and then returned safely.
It turned out they were inadequately trained (safety report) and the Captain got the sack for his troubles I believe.....great airline to work for!
It must be wonderful having the same sheik as chairman of the Emirates board, as well as being the head of their regulatory authority and being the King of the UAE.
We might as well stick the knife into the Singapore Airlines pilots also that:
- Miscalculated theor performance figures at Auckland airport and struck their tail destroying their APU on rotation
- Took off in a typhoon in Taipei on a closed runway and hit a crane killing over 100 pax
- Stalled an A310 over the Bay of Bengal, lost about 15,000 ft in the process and then climbed through everyone elses cleared levels without telling ATC.
These are all documented accounts.
There are numerous others boys and girls that are documented so lets stick to actual accounts rather than folklore that could get PPrUne in hot water by mentioning names etc.
While were at it why not stick the knife in the back of the Emirates A340 pilots at Johannesburg a few years ago that didnt rotate correctly and collected the localiser aerial at the end of the runway, dumped fuel and then returned safely.
It turned out they were inadequately trained (safety report) and the Captain got the sack for his troubles I believe.....great airline to work for!
It must be wonderful having the same sheik as chairman of the Emirates board, as well as being the head of their regulatory authority and being the King of the UAE.
We might as well stick the knife into the Singapore Airlines pilots also that:
- Miscalculated theor performance figures at Auckland airport and struck their tail destroying their APU on rotation
- Took off in a typhoon in Taipei on a closed runway and hit a crane killing over 100 pax
- Stalled an A310 over the Bay of Bengal, lost about 15,000 ft in the process and then climbed through everyone elses cleared levels without telling ATC.
These are all documented accounts.
There are numerous others boys and girls that are documented so lets stick to actual accounts rather than folklore that could get PPrUne in hot water by mentioning names etc.
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Scooter,
I believe the captain in question still works for Emirates. So get your facts straight before slagging off about Emirates. The Sheik you mention is not the king of the UAE, once again another factual error.
Now say sorry-
I believe the captain in question still works for Emirates. So get your facts straight before slagging off about Emirates. The Sheik you mention is not the king of the UAE, once again another factual error.
Now say sorry-
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Lord...I think u are right..he does still work for EK...but not before being fired once or twice...then demoted...gotta love a system that waits and thinks about its actions. The big boss is not the king...they dont have one...however he is cousin of the ruler...and controls all things aviation!
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Well said Scooter.......as I mentioned in a previous post.....there are so many people on this site that seem to crave the end of QF....just to say "I told you so".
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Is this a cover up or a stuff up? I guess that's what Ron is trying to establish.
Did they put in the wrong figures or the wrong Zero Fuel Weight as Scooter alludes to and made a mistake. Or is this QF has hushed up for bad publicity?
Did they put in the wrong figures or the wrong Zero Fuel Weight as Scooter alludes to and made a mistake. Or is this QF has hushed up for bad publicity?
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I heard it wasn't even Qantas!
Sounds like a management pilot or a Training Captain might have been let loose for their annual jolly!
Sounds like a management pilot or a Training Captain might have been let loose for their annual jolly!
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 8th Aug 2008 at 01:24.
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Exactly. My guess is that someone will a small amount of knowledge of these things was sitting in the back, saw the end zone lights flash by and assumed it was a screw up, not knowing that it was ops normal.
Nothing to see here... move along!
Nothing to see here... move along!
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Blue loo. The take off reference thrust (TO or D-TO) is checked during the pre-flight. The correct runway and data is checked when lining up as a final mitigator aganst lining up on the wrong runway or wrong intersection