Merged: QF emergency landing into SYD.
Grumpy
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Flyingit
Your call signs says it all.
Of course IF a Qantas flight 'bites it' - whatever that means - and they have in the past - an appropriate investigation will take place and a series of causes will be attributed.
Some people will be balmed.
And the media will go ballistic.
There are about 20-30 fatal accidents in Oz each year which result in about 100-150 fatalities (haven't checked it for a while). Qantas (international) is more tha likely to have an accident overseas as it did in Bangkok.
80% of accidents are attributed to 'human factors' and mostly 'pilot failures' of judgement - about 80% on landing about 10% on take-off.
Very few to system or airworthiness failures - but yes some. Some even to ATC - some to pasengers.
If you really want to appear knowledgable - rather than tabloid - just read the available data.
I worked in this field for 10 years - and have had a licence for 30.
I watch these incidents with interest - but don't judge.
RANT OVER.
Your call signs says it all.
Of course IF a Qantas flight 'bites it' - whatever that means - and they have in the past - an appropriate investigation will take place and a series of causes will be attributed.
Some people will be balmed.
And the media will go ballistic.
There are about 20-30 fatal accidents in Oz each year which result in about 100-150 fatalities (haven't checked it for a while). Qantas (international) is more tha likely to have an accident overseas as it did in Bangkok.
80% of accidents are attributed to 'human factors' and mostly 'pilot failures' of judgement - about 80% on landing about 10% on take-off.
Very few to system or airworthiness failures - but yes some. Some even to ATC - some to pasengers.
If you really want to appear knowledgable - rather than tabloid - just read the available data.
I worked in this field for 10 years - and have had a licence for 30.
I watch these incidents with interest - but don't judge.
RANT OVER.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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These passanger reports to the meida sound like that seenfrom Flying High. Where all the reporters run into the phone boxes and they fall over after
Quick boys let's get some pictures.
Quick boys let's get some pictures.
The Reverend
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Speedbirdhouse, I think you need to get over it as well.
The depressurisation incident can be classified as an emergency landing without doubt; but the other two you are eluding to, had absolutely nothing to do with an emergency. Two normal turnbacks to base due to a mechanical malfunction. Happens all the time but is not at all newsworthy, especially if it isn't Qantas who happens to be the flavour of the month right now.
Aviation professionals may not be concerned about 3 Qantas emergency landings in the space of a week but it could be reasonably expected that the traveling public [who buy tickets] would be
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SBH,
Get over yourself ....your the one that was so quick to be the first one to post "swiss cheese" in your title post. Jumping to assumptions like most do on this website. Honestly, sometimes I think there are people on here (and maybe you and 'flyinggit' are two of them) that will not be happy until Qantas is no longer-just so they can say "I told you so".
Get over yourself ....your the one that was so quick to be the first one to post "swiss cheese" in your title post. Jumping to assumptions like most do on this website. Honestly, sometimes I think there are people on here (and maybe you and 'flyinggit' are two of them) that will not be happy until Qantas is no longer-just so they can say "I told you so".
Thread Starter
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Hot Dog,
you say-
"Two normal turnbacks to base due to a mechanical malfunction."
Quote-
"Air traffic controllers received a call from the pilot declaring an emergency and proceeded to give priority clearance for a landing at Sydney,'' the spokesman told AAP."
________________
So it was only a turnback AFTER it was found to be a hydraulic leak?
Humour me, what was it up until that point?
________________
Tempo,
do you know what this is? ?
you say-
"Two normal turnbacks to base due to a mechanical malfunction."
Quote-
"Air traffic controllers received a call from the pilot declaring an emergency and proceeded to give priority clearance for a landing at Sydney,'' the spokesman told AAP."
________________
So it was only a turnback AFTER it was found to be a hydraulic leak?
Humour me, what was it up until that point?
________________
Tempo,
do you know what this is? ?
I'm in one of those moods
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.... petrol 
... ... ****
.
As our dearly departed SY TWR (real) legend P.B would have said :-
.
... why am I surprised that you are surprised!
... ... **** .
As our dearly departed SY TWR (real) legend P.B would have said :-
.
... why am I surprised that you are surprised!
Last edited by Scurvy.D.Dog; 2nd Aug 2008 at 15:55.
Grandpa Aerotart
There are three hydraulics systems in a 767. A leak in any one, even if all the fluid escapes, does not even require a diversion to nearest suitable let alone dumping fuel and declaring a Pan. Fair enough he was close to Sydney and no doubt he got on the radio and asked advice and maybe they said 'we'd like you to land here and we'll fix it'. The fuel dump would just be QF SOP, my company would not expect that unless I was over 170 tonnes, on a long runway....short/wet runway very different story.
Had he been over Ujung he'd have likely kept going to Manila and no one would have heard about it, not even the pax. This is a non issue blown out of all proportion by irresponsible media.
Had he been over Ujung he'd have likely kept going to Manila and no one would have heard about it, not even the pax. This is a non issue blown out of all proportion by irresponsible media.
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It would be fair to say that many of the travelling public are right concerned with recent media reporting about Qantas.
In a forum that was essentially about the ALAEA dispute with Qantas various engineers were posting about their grave concerns about the state of QANTAS engineering. Now these are the so called Subject Matter experts. The media have been following that column too.
Is it any wonder given the number of newsworthy events that the media have been reporting it. Given the outsourcing of engineering function to MROs and the general decline in Aircraft servicability that some might start to use the term Swiss Cheese.
If the standard of general maintenance is anything like the standard of "cabin" functionality then there may well be cause for concern,
In a forum that was essentially about the ALAEA dispute with Qantas various engineers were posting about their grave concerns about the state of QANTAS engineering. Now these are the so called Subject Matter experts. The media have been following that column too.
Is it any wonder given the number of newsworthy events that the media have been reporting it. Given the outsourcing of engineering function to MROs and the general decline in Aircraft servicability that some might start to use the term Swiss Cheese.
If the standard of general maintenance is anything like the standard of "cabin" functionality then there may well be cause for concern,
Nunc est bibendum
G'day Chimbu, I agree with almost everything you said and the possibilities about the way it may have gone down. The only point I raise is that if it was a C HYD SYS PRESS ( I don't know if that's what it was) just out of Sydney I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be continuing to Manila irrespective of the fact that I still had two other systems.
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Now the Flight Attendents Union want to front the Boss for some answers and have told the press so. Thanks a lot, that will be a great help, in this crazy hunt by the journo's to bring QF down. I can see the next headline "PAX kept waiting for second scotch and dry" onroute to SIN, "how much further can QF sink" give us a break. Some bleedin A/C somewhere will have a engineering problem as we all know so well, its the nature of the beast, the majority do not end up a smoking black hole, due to pilot training and well serviced aircraft. So if you are a journo, (and we know you read this forum) layoff for Chr$#ts sake, most of these matters are everyday occurances somewhere in this country and every other country that has airliners and cargo aircraft, and most survive and reach their destination. We all understand that Aviation is unforgiving, all pilots and engineers have that drummed into their heads from day 1 and to quote an old cliche "the drive to the airport is the most dangerous part of the trip" stands firm today. Layoff!
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Maybe the industry has for too long "dumbed down" the public on what is normal, what is routine and what is scary. I know when you talk to fearful fliers one-on-one its relatively easy to explain that you have lots of redundancy and that a precautionary return to a nearby big engineering base is simply that....a sensible precaution.
Years back I had a chance to see the daily rap sheet of faults, flaws, mistakes, diversions, go-arounds, air and ground returns etc for a very big US carrier with 500 ish aircraft. Make your eyes water if you knew no better but actually as most here know, was relatively routine.
Years back I had a chance to see the daily rap sheet of faults, flaws, mistakes, diversions, go-arounds, air and ground returns etc for a very big US carrier with 500 ish aircraft. Make your eyes water if you knew no better but actually as most here know, was relatively routine.
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The fact that the FAAA is now getting involved and "demanding answers" simply goes to highlight the fact that most cabin crew wear their total ignorance of their very working environment like some sort of badge of honour.
You would think that years of working inside an aircraft might spur some curiosity about how they actually worked, but no; one must remain cool and aloof from the "techies" at all times.
So why don't you guys and gals ask some questions once in a while instead of mindlessly gossiping in the galley? Find out about why the leak in one hydraulic system is generally no big deal. Find out that aircraft don't simply "plunge" 20,000 feet, why engines and aircraft are engineering marvels and why most pilots really do believe that the drive to the work will be the closest they ever come to death in their aviation career instead of listening, and in this case feeding, the media drivel?
You would think that years of working inside an aircraft might spur some curiosity about how they actually worked, but no; one must remain cool and aloof from the "techies" at all times.
So why don't you guys and gals ask some questions once in a while instead of mindlessly gossiping in the galley? Find out about why the leak in one hydraulic system is generally no big deal. Find out that aircraft don't simply "plunge" 20,000 feet, why engines and aircraft are engineering marvels and why most pilots really do believe that the drive to the work will be the closest they ever come to death in their aviation career instead of listening, and in this case feeding, the media drivel?
The "flat tire" model is misleading.
The "swiss cheese" model is relevant.
The trouble with cheese paring on maintenance is that you can get away with it for maybe Ten years....and then when things start going wrong it takes you Ten years to get back to where you originally were.
The "swiss cheese" model is relevant.
The trouble with cheese paring on maintenance is that you can get away with it for maybe Ten years....and then when things start going wrong it takes you Ten years to get back to where you originally were.
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Capt Kremin,
Get a grip. You are generalising, obviously because you have had a bad experience along the way.
I always ask questions and I do care about the environment we work in.
Your statement is unfair. Have some respect for your cabin crew.
Get a grip. You are generalising, obviously because you have had a bad experience along the way.
I always ask questions and I do care about the environment we work in.
Your statement is unfair. Have some respect for your cabin crew.
Keg
A point of clarification if I may.
Do you fly single pilot, as your post would suggest? I, I, I
and;
If not, from which seat do you make all these decisions?
Thanks
Maui
A point of clarification if I may.
Do you fly single pilot, as your post would suggest? I, I, I
and;
If not, from which seat do you make all these decisions?
Thanks
Maui
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I do respect my cabin crews and the work they do. However, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of questions I have been asked by any Flight attendant about any aspect of flying. It's is just not in the culture and it shows by the actions of the FAAA.