Sky Air World Rwy Excursion
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Technically Correct
HEY Ralph The Bong -
It is not always as simple & black & white as you seem to believe. There are plenty of operations on this planet (maybe outside of your area of operation) where the 'legally held alternate' (the only one suitable on paper) is not necessarily the best / safest place to divert to in practice - and that fact is known before departure.
Many, many operators rely on this principle to be able (a) to operate according to the law (as opposed to not operating at all) and (b) still operate with maximum safety margin possible.
It is not always as simple & black & white as you seem to believe. There are plenty of operations on this planet (maybe outside of your area of operation) where the 'legally held alternate' (the only one suitable on paper) is not necessarily the best / safest place to divert to in practice - and that fact is known before departure.
Many, many operators rely on this principle to be able (a) to operate according to the law (as opposed to not operating at all) and (b) still operate with maximum safety margin possible.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I am going to be very blunt about this.
This is what happens when governments and certain business individuals with personal interests/agendas play around with aviation in this part of the world.
Time and time again, many many wiser advice had touched this on the matter of the correct type for this region. The 737 has had decades of experience serving the people of the Solomons. The opportunities were made available again and again but were resisted again and again by the few idiots who are out to make a name (and fortune) for themselves. Pressure has been put on the pilots in this instance to land. It will happen again, possibly with disasterous results.
I said I was going to be blunt. But peoples lives are at stake here.
This is what happens when governments and certain business individuals with personal interests/agendas play around with aviation in this part of the world.
Time and time again, many many wiser advice had touched this on the matter of the correct type for this region. The 737 has had decades of experience serving the people of the Solomons. The opportunities were made available again and again but were resisted again and again by the few idiots who are out to make a name (and fortune) for themselves. Pressure has been put on the pilots in this instance to land. It will happen again, possibly with disasterous results.
I said I was going to be blunt. But peoples lives are at stake here.
Join Date: May 2007
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Whats the max fuel a 170 can carry? what would be the fuel load generally over the top in HRI? I would have thought you would leave Aus with full tanks as fuel is cheaper in Aus, the turnaround time in HRI could be quicker or really just have less complications and if you couldnt get in leave enough fuel to get you to Santo, Vila(30 more minutes) or even Noumea.
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If, as it has been suggested, the E170 can only make one approach before heading immediately to the alternate, then why did a second approach get made, particularly when there were reported storms? Would seem to be putting all your eggs in one basket at the expense of maintaining a safer option. Once committed to a second approach then it appears the alternate provision is seriously compromised - and consequently more stress for the drivers. From what I recall of the E170 operation when it was being done for Solair, there were always payload limits (a/c was never able to leave BNE with more than about 50 pax) so's they could take full tanks, hence it doesn't seem too swish in the endurance area.
Was the second approach made without waiting for a possible improvement in the weather, if so could possibly indicate a bit of "get-in-itis" due not having the fuel to do so? Or maybe the alternate had turned to poop as well!!
Any updates on the damage to the aircraft?
What time did this happen? Newspaper report said 8:00pm so I question the following:
Was the second approach made without waiting for a possible improvement in the weather, if so could possibly indicate a bit of "get-in-itis" due not having the fuel to do so? Or maybe the alternate had turned to poop as well!!
Any updates on the damage to the aircraft?
What time did this happen? Newspaper report said 8:00pm so I question the following:
2 Otters and a helicopter with ETA's the same as you and wait for it their VFR
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Seriously. Listen to you clowns. This is all bloody speculation who the f$%& knows what went on unless you speak to the crew or someone else in the know. Have you people got too much time on your hands. Maybe this, maybe that, i heard that etc etc etc
I am totally convinced the future of aviation in Australia is in the s%^$t if anyone of u actually works in the industry.
I am totally convinced the future of aviation in Australia is in the s%^$t if anyone of u actually works in the industry.
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Seriously. Listen to you clowns. This is all bloody speculation who the f$%& knows what went on unless you speak to the crew or someone else in the know.
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captaintunedog777, bit touchy on the subject going from your response.
must say as an engineer having been a flying spanner around the pacific, its nice to know who your flying with, and there experiences and history for this very reason. It is a rumour network, but youd be supprised how usefull some of the info is
LOW
must say as an engineer having been a flying spanner around the pacific, its nice to know who your flying with, and there experiences and history for this very reason. It is a rumour network, but youd be supprised how usefull some of the info is
LOW
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Originally Posted by lordofthewings
...It is a rumour network, but youd be supprised how usefull some of the info is...
Let's wait for more info from someone who actually knows something worth passing on, shall we, instead of just speculators or people with an agenda!
Good post captaintunedog777!
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witwiw
I think you might find that;
was maybe a tongue in cheek generalization of ops normal at Henderson, rather than anything factual about this incident.
At least I took it that way.
I think you might find that;
Originally posted by pervert...........2 Otters and a helicopter with ETA's the same as you and wait for it their VFR
At least I took it that way.
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As it was posted, this did happen.
I informed you guys as much was deemed I was allowed to reveal.
captaintunedog777, I belive many people here (myslelf included) are in the Aviation Industy, many as Pilots..
Also I spoke to both of the Pilots aboard the Aircraft.
(And No Sorry, but I will not elaborate more on this at the moment, or it could be my job, and I might loose the pilots of that flight as my mates)
I informed you guys as much was deemed I was allowed to reveal.
captaintunedog777, I belive many people here (myslelf included) are in the Aviation Industy, many as Pilots..
Also I spoke to both of the Pilots aboard the Aircraft.
(And No Sorry, but I will not elaborate more on this at the moment, or it could be my job, and I might loose the pilots of that flight as my mates)
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this is a high capacity aircraft that has had an incident, like Qantas, or many other operators
The operator is not "like QANTAS" inspite of some flight numbers.
There is no similarity, none what so ever.
tipsy
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From a reliable source, there was some gouging and cuts in one tyre from striking a runway edge light ( or two ), so both wheels on that leg were replaced and aircraft returned to service.
It is many years since I operated into Honiara with a 737-200. Arriving late in the evening before last light with heavy rain in the vicinity was always a bit worrying. If I recall there were either no runway lights then or if there were, they were unreliable. If you missed out on the first approach due blinding rain on the windscreen then the decision had to be made whether to have another go and risk not getting in - or diverting immediately to whatever was the nominated alternate.
Of course the decision of when to divert was made before top of descent so there would be no dithering around at low altitude of will I or won't I risk another go at landing. In any case it didn't really matter what the weather was like at HIR - what was vital was the weather at the nominated alternate.
Regardless of the politics implied to by some respondents here, I must say I sympathise with the crew in their situation of low cloud and rain and whether or not to divert after the initial attempt to land. It was my experience of bad weather night arrivals at HIR that the weather conditions rarely improved for a couple of hours - not like Australian type Cb where you could hang around for 15 minutes until the heavy rain abated and you could most likely get in. Until the next wave of heavy rain came through. Nauru weather in the wet season was that type. But not HIR - that stuff stayed there for hours.
Must apologise if this is a bit of a nostagic ramble for the good old days of dicing with HIR weather but like I said I am glad I wasn't flying that night into HIR.
Of course the decision of when to divert was made before top of descent so there would be no dithering around at low altitude of will I or won't I risk another go at landing. In any case it didn't really matter what the weather was like at HIR - what was vital was the weather at the nominated alternate.
Regardless of the politics implied to by some respondents here, I must say I sympathise with the crew in their situation of low cloud and rain and whether or not to divert after the initial attempt to land. It was my experience of bad weather night arrivals at HIR that the weather conditions rarely improved for a couple of hours - not like Australian type Cb where you could hang around for 15 minutes until the heavy rain abated and you could most likely get in. Until the next wave of heavy rain came through. Nauru weather in the wet season was that type. But not HIR - that stuff stayed there for hours.
Must apologise if this is a bit of a nostagic ramble for the good old days of dicing with HIR weather but like I said I am glad I wasn't flying that night into HIR.
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AAAAAHHHHHH....what the heck, here's the grenade
Just wondering what Lion Air think of their recent purchase (SAW) flying like ........... well, they fly themselves??
Suspect Lion may have bought in primarily as an entry to Oz operation, partly to associate with a country less associated with incidents/accidents than themselves.
Maybe Business Stragegy 101 that didn't quite work out as expected.
Very glad all minimal damage, corperate damage??????????????
Cheers all.
Just wondering what Lion Air think of their recent purchase (SAW) flying like ........... well, they fly themselves??
Suspect Lion may have bought in primarily as an entry to Oz operation, partly to associate with a country less associated with incidents/accidents than themselves.
Maybe Business Stragegy 101 that didn't quite work out as expected.
Very glad all minimal damage, corperate damage??????????????
Cheers all.