MERGED: Qantas Decompression ?
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I hear what others say about the container being pressurized the same as the hold environment, but the containers I'm familiar with aren't even close to airtight. They have ripstop type material sides with clips/bungee type fixings holding the sides taut.
I may be wrong, and whilst the interior of a container is at the same pressure as the hold, I couldn't see one of those containers depressurizing and causing damage to its skin. I could see the fixing allowing the sides to flex out and allow air to escape though. One would assume that if one container is damaged as in the picture, then all will be similarly damaged.
Pure speculation on my part though, as it is on the parts of those who post here on this incident.
I may be wrong, and whilst the interior of a container is at the same pressure as the hold, I couldn't see one of those containers depressurizing and causing damage to its skin. I could see the fixing allowing the sides to flex out and allow air to escape though. One would assume that if one container is damaged as in the picture, then all will be similarly damaged.
Pure speculation on my part though, as it is on the parts of those who post here on this incident.
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It looks like part of a container at the top of the picture, and the fairing has come away very cleanly at the bottom. A explosion of some sort? Just speculation of course. What will be certain that the company will run the great witch hunt so the top of the ladder have a scrapegoat. Once more QF survives a tragedy, how do they do it?
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VH-OJK: D Check
DEFCON4
From BBC News - BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Engineers 'had fears over plane'
If the containers do have open sides with sash straps it may explain the look of the luggage looking like its falling out a tumble drier...
I wonder how this one will be blamed on the rising cost of oil/fuel??...
From BBC News - BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Engineers 'had fears over plane'
A Qantas spokeswoman has confirmed that the plane did go through maintenance checks at the facility mentioned on the forum, but that "nothing out of the ordinary was detected during the checks".
"The most recent maintenance check on this aircraft were for a 'D' [most thorough] check in Qantas's Sydney facility in 2004 and two 'C' [regular] checks in Qantas's facility in 2006 and 2008," she said.
"The most recent maintenance check on this aircraft were for a 'D' [most thorough] check in Qantas's Sydney facility in 2004 and two 'C' [regular] checks in Qantas's facility in 2006 and 2008," she said.
I wonder how this one will be blamed on the rising cost of oil/fuel??...
The hole is in the wing root area of the starboard wing. Looks like it could have been an explosion or metal fatigue from the way the metal is curved outwards.
Why is that so Proffessor?
Following an explosion all edges would have been ragged/torn and burn/heat marks apparent.
Baggage not scorched or burnt. No heat apparent in this incident
http://media.monstersandcritics.com/...2318150085.jpg
Last edited by LAME2; 26th Jul 2008 at 06:41. Reason: spelling
Not going to speculate on cause, Just a well done to the crew for doing what they are trained to do and showing spectacularly why they deserve to be paid so well.
Captain was John Bartells, apologies if already posted.
How Capt John Bartels saved a Qantas jumbo | Herald Sun
Captain was John Bartells, apologies if already posted.
How Capt John Bartels saved a Qantas jumbo | Herald Sun
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Dixon on Oxygen after press conference!
It is speculation, and i repeat only speculation that CEO Gerff Dixon has been treated with Oxygen after actually aknowledging the outstanding efforts of both Technical Crew and Cabin Crew in this nasty incident. It is speculation in spectacular form that Gerff was actually able to speak of employees of his Company in such a glowing, warm fuzzy manner. It is strongly thought that following a dose of the old 02 that Gerff will actually
retract his comments and forcefully deny the spoken acollades.
Once again, speculation only at this point.
Stay tuned!
retract his comments and forcefully deny the spoken acollades.
Once again, speculation only at this point.
Stay tuned!
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Well it seems that either TJ's knowledge hasn't grown since he last flew a 747 or it may be the reporting.
6 minutes from 29,000 to 10,000??? Seems like an awfully long time for an emergency descent. 3-4 minutes would have been an outside figure.
'All they would have known is that there was a hole in the aircraft somewhere"?? Well I could agree with a significant leak, but not necessarily a hole.
Of course, we have to allow for the reporting, and only some of what has been reported, or even none at all, may have actually been said.
The 'terrified, screaming' passengers would have know exactly what was wrong, like the one who reported that the 'undercarriage had ruptured"!!!
6 minutes from 29,000 to 10,000??? Seems like an awfully long time for an emergency descent. 3-4 minutes would have been an outside figure.
'All they would have known is that there was a hole in the aircraft somewhere"?? Well I could agree with a significant leak, but not necessarily a hole.
Of course, we have to allow for the reporting, and only some of what has been reported, or even none at all, may have actually been said.
The 'terrified, screaming' passengers would have know exactly what was wrong, like the one who reported that the 'undercarriage had ruptured"!!!
How Capt John Bartels saved a Qantas jumbo | Herald Sun
....Yesterday, Capt Bartels and his co-pilot, Werninghaus Bernd, had less than a minute to launch an emergency drill that saved all aboard Qantas Boeing VH-OJK.....
....Yesterday, Capt Bartels and his co-pilot, Werninghaus Bernd, had less than a minute to launch an emergency drill that saved all aboard Qantas Boeing VH-OJK.....
And it's Bernie Werninghaus, not the other way round...
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overseas MRO Attack
Fair go fellas if you have ever used and been part of any engineering in third party maintenance organisations i would listen intently to your mutterings. But as i suspect you may not. Well i have and i have every respect for the guys in these facilities, whether by choice due to a layoff or just trying get the bucks as an expat they provide a service that is very professional. The maintenance of the aircraft leaving the facility is only as good as the customer team doing the supervising of the aircraft and being clear on the expectations that is required.
I have been involved with various overseas MRO's throughout Europe for 5 years and never had an issue with the quality of work from these facilities.
I have met ex QF LAMES around the world (currently on 100.00usd an hour which is a little bit more than the 40.00usd an hour that you get at QF) who are very experienced and all say the same thing the best thing they ever did was leave QF.
I am saying you are barking up the wrong tree with an attack on overseas MRO's who have been given approvals by the local regulatory authority plus CASA and the operators QA.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers
EX QF LAME of 20 years
I have been involved with various overseas MRO's throughout Europe for 5 years and never had an issue with the quality of work from these facilities.
I have met ex QF LAMES around the world (currently on 100.00usd an hour which is a little bit more than the 40.00usd an hour that you get at QF) who are very experienced and all say the same thing the best thing they ever did was leave QF.
I am saying you are barking up the wrong tree with an attack on overseas MRO's who have been given approvals by the local regulatory authority plus CASA and the operators QA.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers
EX QF LAME of 20 years
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That might be true in some cases BBJ, but a LAME I spoke to just the other day told me that one frame we recently got back from overseas maintenance (SE Asia) was a bucket of sh*t.
Then he spent quite some time detailing exactly why (like, exactly what items they'd missed or hadn't done properly, and what had to be re-done in Sydney), until I told him to please stop.
So I don't doubt that it's true that some MROs overseas are great - in fact I'm certain the majority are. However I don't think we're always sending our jets to those ones! We're sending them to the cheapest ones. And like my trusty electrician says: "buy it cheap, buy it twice".
Then he spent quite some time detailing exactly why (like, exactly what items they'd missed or hadn't done properly, and what had to be re-done in Sydney), until I told him to please stop.
So I don't doubt that it's true that some MROs overseas are great - in fact I'm certain the majority are. However I don't think we're always sending our jets to those ones! We're sending them to the cheapest ones. And like my trusty electrician says: "buy it cheap, buy it twice".
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Fair go fellas if you have ever used and been part of any engineering in third party maintenance organisations i would listen intently to your mutterings. But as i suspect you may not.
Qantas did not get it's immaculate safety record by chance, which is what I interpret people as saying when they pass off Qantas Engineering as just another MRO. Every person I have met who has made this comment has never worked in Sydney Heavy when it was around. I have, and yes I have worked in other overseas MRO's.
I am not peronally attacking overseas MRO's when I state this, just defending Arthur Baird's legacy.
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BBJ, you make good points, and they are not lost on me.
I've been part of a few SE Asian airlines over a lot of years, and when their maintenance is done by organizations other than their own, they send their own engineers, and the work is supervised and signed off by those engineers.
I have seen some damned good maintenance come out of those orgnizations, as well as some ordinary maintenance. The standard delivered was directly related to the standard of the airline's own maintenance and their own engineers!
Do QF not send engineers to supervise their maintenance by third party maintenance organizations?? If so, then QF engineers must accept some responsibility, unless of course it was totally unrelated to maintenance, and than can be the case with corrosion.
My contention is still that it originated in a baggage container, so let's see.
Re QF's safety record Ngineer, we won't mention Bangkok.
Thank you for your kind words in the following post QF Insider. Seldom does a maintenance F*** up manifest itself in such a noticeable way as this incident, but there are many, so even though there are those who contend that QF's safety record is due to maintenance, that can hardly be said with any authority.
As an aside, I contribute to a few other forums, music and model aircraft flying mostly, and never does anybody call another an idiot regardles of how stupid their post seems.
Perhaps you could do with anger counselling.
And no matter how much one attempts to put the blame on cost cutting, management policies, or causes other than the flightcrew in the BGK incident, if those up front had put it on the ground where it should have been on the ground, then it would have stopped. That is inarguable, even if they had reverse on three and full power on one, even with the shortened runway.
I've been part of a few SE Asian airlines over a lot of years, and when their maintenance is done by organizations other than their own, they send their own engineers, and the work is supervised and signed off by those engineers.
I have seen some damned good maintenance come out of those orgnizations, as well as some ordinary maintenance. The standard delivered was directly related to the standard of the airline's own maintenance and their own engineers!
Do QF not send engineers to supervise their maintenance by third party maintenance organizations?? If so, then QF engineers must accept some responsibility, unless of course it was totally unrelated to maintenance, and than can be the case with corrosion.
My contention is still that it originated in a baggage container, so let's see.
Re QF's safety record Ngineer, we won't mention Bangkok.
Thank you for your kind words in the following post QF Insider. Seldom does a maintenance F*** up manifest itself in such a noticeable way as this incident, but there are many, so even though there are those who contend that QF's safety record is due to maintenance, that can hardly be said with any authority.
As an aside, I contribute to a few other forums, music and model aircraft flying mostly, and never does anybody call another an idiot regardles of how stupid their post seems.
Perhaps you could do with anger counselling.
And no matter how much one attempts to put the blame on cost cutting, management policies, or causes other than the flightcrew in the BGK incident, if those up front had put it on the ground where it should have been on the ground, then it would have stopped. That is inarguable, even if they had reverse on three and full power on one, even with the shortened runway.
Last edited by relax737; 26th Jul 2008 at 10:39.
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is fine to mention bangkok you idiot in repsect to a systemic failure...Maintainence had no part to play in the golf course. Was confined to idiot cost cutting and the actions/omissions from a flight crew...
Oh and the only reason they are reporting that p*i%# Dixon is horrified is that;
1. APA hadn't bought QF allowing him to paprachute out before it all fell apart.
2. The tool can't exercise his optikons when the rest of the market realises how lucky QF was AGAIN!
Oh and the only reason they are reporting that p*i%# Dixon is horrified is that;
1. APA hadn't bought QF allowing him to paprachute out before it all fell apart.
2. The tool can't exercise his optikons when the rest of the market realises how lucky QF was AGAIN!
Posted by Bug-a-lugs
If you are familiar with airline operations, you'd be aware that following a decompression and below 14,000' the flight crew will order cabin crew to "commence follow up duties". If you are aluding to the same bit of footage that I saw, the aircraft was in level flight at 10,000' and the flight attendants were carrying out the required duties in a very professional manner. 
Good to see the hosties continue with a drinks service with portable oxygen bottles on!!!!I am sure everyone deserved a drink.
Now thats the spirit.
Now thats the spirit.