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With both CASA and their own website reporting the grounding as fact I fear that this will be very difficult to recover from. I feel for their staff who will no dout get the short end of the stick on this.
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?
Tower closes at 1000 UTC by ERSA. Incident at 2305L?
Also if it became a night visual approach, descent below LSALT is permitted if when in circling area.
Weather was crystal clear.
Damage is been done in the media though.
Also if it became a night visual approach, descent below LSALT is permitted if when in circling area.
"Reference to circling area in this section
includes the circling area for the category of aircraft
or a higher category where the limitations of the
higher category are complied with."
..so 6.94 NM is permitted, and web track appears shows aircraft within this. (It goes off the range)includes the circling area for the category of aircraft
or a higher category where the limitations of the
higher category are complied with."
Weather was crystal clear.
Damage is been done in the media though.
Last edited by zone; 1st Jul 2011 at 22:21.
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Tiger Grounded
THE Civil Aviation Safety Authority has suspended all Tiger Airways Australia domestic flights with immediate effect from today.
CASA says the action has been taken because it believes permitting the airline to continue to fly poses a serious and imminent risk to air safety.
The suspension of Tiger Airways Australia follows the issue of a show cause notice to the airline in March this year, and CASA says taking Tiger's response into account, it's imposed a number of conditions on the airline's air operator's certificate.
They include actions to improve the proficiency of Tiger's pilots and their training and checking processes, changes to fatigue management and improvements to maintenance control.
Tiger says its domestic services will remain suspended until next Saturday while it conducts investigations into two recent operational incidents.
CASA says the action has been taken because it believes permitting the airline to continue to fly poses a serious and imminent risk to air safety.
The suspension of Tiger Airways Australia follows the issue of a show cause notice to the airline in March this year, and CASA says taking Tiger's response into account, it's imposed a number of conditions on the airline's air operator's certificate.
They include actions to improve the proficiency of Tiger's pilots and their training and checking processes, changes to fatigue management and improvements to maintenance control.
Tiger says its domestic services will remain suspended until next Saturday while it conducts investigations into two recent operational incidents.
It says its services to and from Singapore are not affected and continue to operate normally.
The airline says it is doing all it can to minimise passenger disruption, but customers with bookings in Australia should not travel to the airport and will be offered a full refund or credit for deferred travel.
Read more: Tiger planes grounded, pose 'serious risk' | News.com.au
The airline says it is doing all it can to minimise passenger disruption, but customers with bookings in Australia should not travel to the airport and will be offered a full refund or credit for deferred travel.
Read more: Tiger planes grounded, pose 'serious risk' | News.com.au
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Aircraft category
Zone you seem to imply that they can arbitrarily raise their category to fit their situation. Category is based on Vref and would think a320 is "C" Vref 121-140 circling area 4.20nm .find it hard to believe they would be cat "E" Vref 166-210 circling area 6.94nm
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Bye Bye Crawford
Damage was done in the media a long time ago. Tiger were too tight-assed to spend money fixing their pathetic public image. Now you will pay the price.
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your head should be on the chopping block for employing your 'mate' and allowing him to employ his 'mates' and totally fu*k the Australian operation.
Blue Foot
Bottums Up
Ref different categories, AIP ENR 1.5, 1.14 b
Note: Reference to circling area in this section includes the circling area for the category of aircraft or a higher category where the limi-tations of the higher category are complied with.
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Sad for the good safe people at Tiger (including a few mates) but a long overdue kick up the backside for Delusional Davis & those other graduates from the Joyce school of aviation regulatory arrogance.
Let's hope that this is the start of CASA doing what it should and not just picking a soft target to be seen.
There is already a 'victim' persona being attributed to Tiger in some media this morning but the reality is they have overtly ignored the rules of the Regulator's game. (The really sad thing is that the left seat in the latest incident will be the fall guy for dysfunctional management that want multiple choice regs.)
It's not an anti-LCC rant either, as I'm reliably informed that both JQ & QF equally have serious and deliberate safety breaches currently under investigation including one involving the big bird and a few internal management emails trying to cover it up. I trust that the Senate Inquiry invigorated Regulators (plural) don't shy away from what they know they should and must do including taking on QF & co.
AT
Let's hope that this is the start of CASA doing what it should and not just picking a soft target to be seen.
There is already a 'victim' persona being attributed to Tiger in some media this morning but the reality is they have overtly ignored the rules of the Regulator's game. (The really sad thing is that the left seat in the latest incident will be the fall guy for dysfunctional management that want multiple choice regs.)
It's not an anti-LCC rant either, as I'm reliably informed that both JQ & QF equally have serious and deliberate safety breaches currently under investigation including one involving the big bird and a few internal management emails trying to cover it up. I trust that the Senate Inquiry invigorated Regulators (plural) don't shy away from what they know they should and must do including taking on QF & co.
AT
Sad for the good safe people at Tiger (including a few mates)
Let us not forget that the crews at Tiger have families, mortgages, bills to pay, and all the other stresses of daily life. They do not need to be worrying about their future as well.
No-one would wish to see good people on the street.
Nor does anyone want to see the holiday and travel plans of thousands of people disrupted. Our industry suffers overall if there is any bad news.
The problems would appear to lie with management, and it is regrettable that this is the only way CASA can get their attention.
Did crew fatigue play a role in the 'incident' ?. What was the crews experience level, especially the F/O.
It will be interesting to see the backlash from the remaining 'punters' who do not know how hopeless Tiger are. Even Skytrax say Tiger is not a quality approved airline. I suspect this will be the finish of Tiger in Aust with their Ryanair mentality. I assume passengers from the cancelled services will have to join the queue and wait for up to 12 months for a refund.
With the grounding on the first day of the Victorian School Holidays there are going to be some disappointed passengers who have had their travel plans destroyed. Will Tiger pay the cancellation and noshow fees for rental cars, accommodation etc etc.
It will be interesting to see the backlash from the remaining 'punters' who do not know how hopeless Tiger are. Even Skytrax say Tiger is not a quality approved airline. I suspect this will be the finish of Tiger in Aust with their Ryanair mentality. I assume passengers from the cancelled services will have to join the queue and wait for up to 12 months for a refund.
With the grounding on the first day of the Victorian School Holidays there are going to be some disappointed passengers who have had their travel plans destroyed. Will Tiger pay the cancellation and noshow fees for rental cars, accommodation etc etc.
Last edited by B772; 2nd Jul 2011 at 02:09.
1st Jul 2011, 19:57 1a sound asleep
This outrageous. Should have been grounded until its all sorted out. Where's the press when you need them "part owned by SINGAPORE AIRLINES" blah "horror tiger almost crashed"
This outrageous. Should have been grounded until its all sorted out. Where's the press when you need them "part owned by SINGAPORE AIRLINES" blah "horror tiger almost crashed"
Now please dont tell me DJ or QF need to be kind hearted and honor Tiger's fares for the stranded thousands of Tiger pax
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Cat C,D,E
This trick here is to seperate Instrument Approach to Land criteria (Only one Cat applies), and Visual Approach Criteria. It is easy to confuse.
3.16 VISUAL APPROACHES
3.16.1 Subject to the requirements of visual circling,
missed approach and visual segments paragraphs
above, the pilot need not commence or may
discontinue the approved instrument approach procedure
to that aerodrome when:
a. By Day—Within 30 NM of that aerodrome at an
altitude not below the LSALT/MSA for the route
segment, the appropriate step of the DME or
GPS Arrival Procedure, or the MDA for the procedure
being flown, the aircraft is established:
1. clear of cloud;
2. in sight of ground or water;
3. with a flight visibility not less than 5000m or,
in the case of a helicopter, is able to proceed
under helicopter VMC, or the aerodrome
is in sight; and
4. subsequently can maintain (1), (2) and (3)
at an altitude not less than the minimum
prescribed for VFR flight (CAR 157), to
within the circling area or, in the case of
a helicopter, can subsequently maintain
helicopter VMC to the HLS.
b. By Night— At an altitude not below the LSALT/
MSA for the route segment, the appropriate step
of the DME or GPS Arrival procedure, or the
MDA for the procedure being flown, the aircraft
is established:
1. clear of cloud;
2. in sight of ground or water;
3. with a flight visibility not less than 5000m;
and
4. within the circling area or VAA-H, as applicable;
or
5. within 5 NM (7 NM for a runway equipped
with an ILS) of that aerodrome aligned with
the runway centerline and established not
below “on slope” on the T-VASIS or PAPI;
or
6. within 10 NM (14 NM for runways 16L
and 34L at Sydney Intl) of that aerodrome,
established not below the ILS glide path
with less than full scale azimuth deflection.
NOTE: Reference to circling area in this section
includes the circling area for the category of aircraft
or a higher category where the limitations of the
higher category are complied with.
Avalon only goes to CAT D on the VOR 36 as well.
3.16 VISUAL APPROACHES
3.16.1 Subject to the requirements of visual circling,
missed approach and visual segments paragraphs
above, the pilot need not commence or may
discontinue the approved instrument approach procedure
to that aerodrome when:
a. By Day—Within 30 NM of that aerodrome at an
altitude not below the LSALT/MSA for the route
segment, the appropriate step of the DME or
GPS Arrival Procedure, or the MDA for the procedure
being flown, the aircraft is established:
1. clear of cloud;
2. in sight of ground or water;
3. with a flight visibility not less than 5000m or,
in the case of a helicopter, is able to proceed
under helicopter VMC, or the aerodrome
is in sight; and
4. subsequently can maintain (1), (2) and (3)
at an altitude not less than the minimum
prescribed for VFR flight (CAR 157), to
within the circling area or, in the case of
a helicopter, can subsequently maintain
helicopter VMC to the HLS.
b. By Night— At an altitude not below the LSALT/
MSA for the route segment, the appropriate step
of the DME or GPS Arrival procedure, or the
MDA for the procedure being flown, the aircraft
is established:
1. clear of cloud;
2. in sight of ground or water;
3. with a flight visibility not less than 5000m;
and
4. within the circling area or VAA-H, as applicable;
or
5. within 5 NM (7 NM for a runway equipped
with an ILS) of that aerodrome aligned with
the runway centerline and established not
below “on slope” on the T-VASIS or PAPI;
or
6. within 10 NM (14 NM for runways 16L
and 34L at Sydney Intl) of that aerodrome,
established not below the ILS glide path
with less than full scale azimuth deflection.
NOTE: Reference to circling area in this section
includes the circling area for the category of aircraft
or a higher category where the limitations of the
higher category are complied with.
Avalon only goes to CAT D on the VOR 36 as well.