Merged: Tiger Tales
Whispering "T" Jet
SOPS
That taxi doesn't have another 190 seats that can be sold for "cost". The LCC model works provided you have smart and creative management. South West and Virgin have proved that.
Not sure about Jetstar yet and Tiger appears to have blown it. That interview with Tony Davis reminded me of rabbit culling on the farm. He looked just like a rabbit in the spotlight - very nervous.
when you go to the airport in a taxi that cost about $40000, and the fare in the taxi costs more than a seat on an aircraft that costs around 40 million dollars....please take a seat have a think
Not sure about Jetstar yet and Tiger appears to have blown it. That interview with Tony Davis reminded me of rabbit culling on the farm. He looked just like a rabbit in the spotlight - very nervous.
whats wrong with a cheap no frills airline?
Whilst watching Mr Davis on Lateline the thought occurred to me, does he have the right to take up employment in Australia? He may well have (I have no idea), but if not, adding a visa infringement to his list of woes would be most unhelpful.
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That taxi doesn't have another 190 seats that can be sold for "cost".
So, taking everything else out of the equation, the airfare still should be more than the taxi fare over the same distance.
Now, if you consider the greater distance of a flight compared to the taxi fare to the airport, along with all the other expenses, common sense would dictate that the airfares be much higher than they are. Particularly when some of the other expenses include 2 drivers, not one; 3 or more flight attendants; engineers in attendance for every departure & arrival; catering; baggage handlers; checkin staff; security; ATC; much larger training costs; etc - the list goes on.
Any individual who gives it some thought would have to concede that if you want to travel with the speed, comfort & safety of air travel, you need to pay a little more.
Come to think of it, how come all the people crapping on about how airfares need to be lower, aren't also fighting for lower taxi, bus & train fares?
Southwest have some major issues with clapt out 737s at the moment.
Virgin until the change of management had about 2-3 years left and have a less than impressive share history.
Shining lights for the LCC model?
Virgin until the change of management had about 2-3 years left and have a less than impressive share history.
Shining lights for the LCC model?
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ozbiggles, SWA are in the process of replacing their classic 737 fleet with NG 737-700 aircraft. They are still in profit and still the classic model for a LCC.
It is interesting that the founding CEO has always expounded the view that if you look after your staff, the staff will look after your customers and the shareholders will be happy. Something that appears to be lost on the Australian LCC execs (and some mainline companies as well if it comes to that).
As an aside the people appointed to run Tiger all appear to have a background in one of Europe's less successful LCC. Lessons to be learnt here?
It is interesting that the founding CEO has always expounded the view that if you look after your staff, the staff will look after your customers and the shareholders will be happy. Something that appears to be lost on the Australian LCC execs (and some mainline companies as well if it comes to that).
As an aside the people appointed to run Tiger all appear to have a background in one of Europe's less successful LCC. Lessons to be learnt here?
short flights long nights
Thanks Oakape...that was my point excatly
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Travel News
Tiger flight flew low without clearance, Australian Transport Safety Bureau finds
Read more: Tiger flight flew low without clearance, Australian Transport Safety Bureau finds | News.com.au
Tiger flight flew low without clearance, Australian Transport Safety Bureau finds
Read more: Tiger flight flew low without clearance, Australian Transport Safety Bureau finds | News.com.au
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The ABC is reporting this as s third Tiger incident! The Age is a summary of the summary on the ATSB web site and next to useless.
Sandilands seems to think the cockpit discussion quoted in the report is important.
Tiger Airways mauled by Australian inquiry into low flight | Plane Talking
Then I read the report myself and thought, very strange, it reads like a lot of it was ripped out at the last minute.
WTF was really going on in that cockpit!
Sandilands seems to think the cockpit discussion quoted in the report is important.
Tiger Airways mauled by Australian inquiry into low flight | Plane Talking
Then I read the report myself and thought, very strange, it reads like a lot of it was ripped out at the last minute.
WTF was really going on in that cockpit!
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From what I have read on this:
(and I'd be really happy if someone pointed out the error of my ways)
N
edit because I can't spell
- They were being controlled
- They deliberately left an assigned altitude without clearance.
(and I'd be really happy if someone pointed out the error of my ways)
N
edit because I can't spell
Last edited by noip; 13th Jul 2011 at 13:05.
From what I have read on this:
They were being conrolled
They deliberately left an assigned altitude without clearance.
Is there something I have missed?
They were being conrolled
They deliberately left an assigned altitude without clearance.
Is there something I have missed?
Several issues there but to focus on one. It seems like there is a slightly confusing situation with the airspace classes around YMAV depending on whether the tower is open or not. The details are in the ERSA and the Terminal chart directs one to the ERSA for the info.
Now this may be a stupid question but do any airlines carry ERSA on the flight deck?
If not, where does one find this information as I don't see it on the Jepp plates (though I don't have the Terminal chart).
I'm not suggesting at all that this is any excuse for the situation, just curious how you would know what class of airspace you are in at 2500' without ERSA?
Now this may be a stupid question but do any airlines carry ERSA on the flight deck?
If not, where does one find this information as I don't see it on the Jepp plates (though I don't have the Terminal chart).
I'm not suggesting at all that this is any excuse for the situation, just curious how you would know what class of airspace you are in at 2500' without ERSA?
It looks pretty obvious to me that the Captain intended a visual approach to the runway, and so descended to a circuit altitude of 1500' AGL (1600) - to then fly level and pick up the final approach to the runway. I don't think it occurred to him at the time that day & night are different in terms of respecting LSALTs when visual.
It looks pretty obvious to me that the Captain intended a visual approach to the runway, and so descended to a circuit altitude of 1500' AGL (1600) - to then fly level and pick up the final approach to the runway. I don't think it occurred to him at the time that day & night are different in terms of respecting LSALTs when visual.
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Beer baron the CTA steps are on the area chart for each airport.
No we do not carry ERSA although some crew may carry their own.
Interesting situation....
I remember flying into Broome and overflew at 2000' to see which was the windsock was pointing (when it was uncontrolled), joined for a circuit, went around at about 300' as tailwind was too much, climbed to 1500' at did exactly what Tiger did to reposition for the other runway.....
Apart from the leaving assigned altitude, as long as he's within circling area and visual I can't see a problem with visually manouvreing around a circuit area..
No we do not carry ERSA although some crew may carry their own.
Interesting situation....
I remember flying into Broome and overflew at 2000' to see which was the windsock was pointing (when it was uncontrolled), joined for a circuit, went around at about 300' as tailwind was too much, climbed to 1500' at did exactly what Tiger did to reposition for the other runway.....
Apart from the leaving assigned altitude, as long as he's within circling area and visual I can't see a problem with visually manouvreing around a circuit area..
I'm not suggesting at all that this is any excuse for the situation, just curious how you would know what class of airspace you are in at 2500' without ERSA?
Using the rough as guts arse protection KISS principle, a look at a DME of 10 why would you want to be down at 1600'?
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If the Captain and or F/O were used to flying outside of Australia they may well be used to doing visual approaches at night.
Neither ICAO, EU-OPS or FARs for example prohibit visual descent below MSA at night, and most companies allow this with certain provisos:
E.g.
The line of sight is also the line of flight.
A lit area (usually) the runway is continuously in view.
etc etc.
If this was home base he probably knew the terrain beneath him
It could be he breached a national regulation and or a company rule/SOP but, whether or not it is unsafe is a totally different argument.
Neither ICAO, EU-OPS or FARs for example prohibit visual descent below MSA at night, and most companies allow this with certain provisos:
E.g.
The line of sight is also the line of flight.
A lit area (usually) the runway is continuously in view.
etc etc.
If this was home base he probably knew the terrain beneath him
It could be he breached a national regulation and or a company rule/SOP but, whether or not it is unsafe is a totally different argument.
Dont forget he had been cleared to 3000' and had never been given clearance to descend.
Melbourne Control, Go Cat 6207, going around, climbing runway heading to 2,500.
Go Cat 6207, still identified, climb to 3,000.
3,000, Go Cat 6207.
Go Cat 6207, when able advise intentions.
Go Cat 6207, what would you like to do now?
Approach Go Cat 6207, we had a bit of a downwind there on the landing, are we okay to make a teardrop for landing left turn out but a right turn back to land?
Go Cat 6207, affirm, so come back visual or by the VOR?
No no, we are visual, we are happy just to make a left hand teardrop to turn back into a right hand pattern.
Go Cat 6207, that's approved.
Go Cat 6207, report turning inbound for descent.
Go Cat 6207, still identified, climb to 3,000.
3,000, Go Cat 6207.
Go Cat 6207, when able advise intentions.
Go Cat 6207, what would you like to do now?
Approach Go Cat 6207, we had a bit of a downwind there on the landing, are we okay to make a teardrop for landing left turn out but a right turn back to land?
Go Cat 6207, affirm, so come back visual or by the VOR?
No no, we are visual, we are happy just to make a left hand teardrop to turn back into a right hand pattern.
Go Cat 6207, that's approved.
Go Cat 6207, report turning inbound for descent.
, and that he was only requested to report leaving 3000' - which they did.Given the aircraft was being navigated visually in good visibility to the pilot's home base ...
... well, it's more of a technical breech than a safety one.