NSW Police Officer Boards Plane with Gun
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MUDPIG:
To answer your request for additional information a Quick Google reveals the following:
Sterile area
Particular security requirements also apply to sterile areas. These are primarily designed to ensure that any people, goods or vehicles that enter a sterile area are screened and cleared and that people who have been screened and cleared stay cleared before boarding their aircraft.
Sterile areas are primarily required at those airports which have jet services. Many security controlled airports will not have sterile areas and will not need to undertake screening.
See page 21-'screening and clearing'.
The Regulations contain detailed descriptions of the circumstances under which people can or can't enter the sterile area:
generally a person may only enter the sterile area through a screening point and only if he or she has been screened and cleared (unless they are exempt from the screening requirement)
only vehicles and goods that are screened and cleared may enter the sterile area
only cleared vehicles that are authorised and driven by an authorised person displaying a valid ASIC (or a person with a VIC who is supervised by somebody displaying a valid ASIC) may enter the sterile area.
The Regulations also detail requirements for barriers, signage and screening points.
and!
Prescription of sterile area
The sterile area of a security controlled airport is prescribed for the purposes of paragraphs 54 (1) (aa) and (3) (aa) of the Act
AND!
21C Screening at sterile areas
(1) A screening authority in respect of a sterile area, or part of a sterile
area, must ensure that people, vehicles and goods do not enter the
area or part of the area unless they:
(a) have been screened and cleared for the purpose of entering
the area; or
(b) are exempted by the Secretary in writing from screening and
clearance; or
(c) are in a class of people, vehicles or goods exempted by the
Secretary in writing from screening and clearance.
MUDPIG:
Maybe a litle research on your part prior to shooting off your mouth might help your foot in mouth problem.
To answer your request for additional information a Quick Google reveals the following:
Sterile area
Particular security requirements also apply to sterile areas. These are primarily designed to ensure that any people, goods or vehicles that enter a sterile area are screened and cleared and that people who have been screened and cleared stay cleared before boarding their aircraft.
Sterile areas are primarily required at those airports which have jet services. Many security controlled airports will not have sterile areas and will not need to undertake screening.
See page 21-'screening and clearing'.
The Regulations contain detailed descriptions of the circumstances under which people can or can't enter the sterile area:
generally a person may only enter the sterile area through a screening point and only if he or she has been screened and cleared (unless they are exempt from the screening requirement)
only vehicles and goods that are screened and cleared may enter the sterile area
only cleared vehicles that are authorised and driven by an authorised person displaying a valid ASIC (or a person with a VIC who is supervised by somebody displaying a valid ASIC) may enter the sterile area.
The Regulations also detail requirements for barriers, signage and screening points.
and!
Prescription of sterile area
The sterile area of a security controlled airport is prescribed for the purposes of paragraphs 54 (1) (aa) and (3) (aa) of the Act
AND!
21C Screening at sterile areas
(1) A screening authority in respect of a sterile area, or part of a sterile
area, must ensure that people, vehicles and goods do not enter the
area or part of the area unless they:
(a) have been screened and cleared for the purpose of entering
the area; or
(b) are exempted by the Secretary in writing from screening and
clearance; or
(c) are in a class of people, vehicles or goods exempted by the
Secretary in writing from screening and clearance.
MUDPIG:
Maybe a litle research on your part prior to shooting off your mouth might help your foot in mouth problem.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MUDPIG:
Totally agree with you ole chap! but that is not what we are talking about now is it..
I'm pretty damn sure if a member of YOUR family was being attacked by some sicko in the "sterile" area you wouldn't be happy that the police attending had to "check" their firearms, spray and batons at the door especially if the crook was armed himself. Understand, this also, if someone rings "000" within the secure area it will be the state police responding first. Protective services and the AFP will probably win the race but the state police will still attend.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The only people permitted into the sterile area are AFP officers!!
NSW Police in uniform or otherwise are NOT permitted into the sterile area / aircraft etc while carrying weapons...."
Was this not quoted by you on page 2? Yes I agree he did wrong by getting on an aircraft. Are we still not talking about him also entering a sterile area. Come on. Shooting my mouth off? Statement only.
The regulations were broken once he stepped onto the aircraft. That is it.
Did you or did you not get 100% in air law at CPL or ATPL level?
Geezuz! once CASA gets it right and gets people to sit exams that are not OPEN BOOK maybe then people will be actually forced to study and KNOW law. Just like proper law students.
OOPS shot my mouth off again! Sorry that will cause a thread drift. Sorry Mods.
NSW Police in uniform or otherwise are NOT permitted into the sterile area / aircraft etc while carrying weapons...."
Was this not quoted by you on page 2? Yes I agree he did wrong by getting on an aircraft. Are we still not talking about him also entering a sterile area. Come on. Shooting my mouth off? Statement only.
The regulations were broken once he stepped onto the aircraft. That is it.
Did you or did you not get 100% in air law at CPL or ATPL level?
Geezuz! once CASA gets it right and gets people to sit exams that are not OPEN BOOK maybe then people will be actually forced to study and KNOW law. Just like proper law students.
OOPS shot my mouth off again! Sorry that will cause a thread drift. Sorry Mods.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep he got me on that one. Fell for it hook line and sinker after sayin I wasn't getting into and argument.
Oh well I suppose he's gone back to lookin up his CAR's.
CIAO I've said my peace and thats it.
Suppose CPL(h) have their own interpretations on CAR's.
Oh god I've gotta learn to keep my mouth shut.
Oh well I suppose he's gone back to lookin up his CAR's.
CIAO I've said my peace and thats it.
Suppose CPL(h) have their own interpretations on CAR's.
Oh god I've gotta learn to keep my mouth shut.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MUDPIG:
Yea i agree with you mate!
Maybe you should do your home work first before you attempt to sling mud in my direction ( Pun Intended )
Your feeble attempts at making this personal is quite laughable, The Regs i quoted are a simple cut and paste mate! and if you read them i am sure even you could learn something
I could go on and explain the various regs to you but obviously that would be a complete waste of time. do your home work champ.... and take a chill pill..
Yea i agree with you mate!
Maybe you should do your home work first before you attempt to sling mud in my direction ( Pun Intended )
Your feeble attempts at making this personal is quite laughable, The Regs i quoted are a simple cut and paste mate! and if you read them i am sure even you could learn something
I could go on and explain the various regs to you but obviously that would be a complete waste of time. do your home work champ....
and take a chill pill..
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Maybe a litle research on your part prior to shooting off your mouth might help your foot in mouth problem. "
Come on was it not you that fired the first shot and getting personal with this comment.
What are we arguing about anyway for Chrissakes. Is it that police are allowed into sterile areas or not? Or is it the interpretation of regulations of which you keep cut and pasting? Or is it that maybe that some would like to see a police officer charged for boarding an aircraft in uniform with his firearm. Just so you know police, if, in uniform in public on duty are supposed to have their appointments on. Now, it is up to the staff at the gate to inform this officer that the firearm cannot be carried but is to be surrendered to the PIC to be carried in the confines of the cockpit.
Now that in itself is a little disconcerting when a few have already posted what if this officer had a screw loose while in possession of his firearm. Was it not a flight crew member that lost the plot and attacked his crew with a hammer in a DC-10. What if he had a gun the end result in that incident would have been tragically different.
I will bury the hatchet (so to speak) I retract any comment that may have offended you or your helo brothers. I apologise. I totally agree that no firearms should be allowed on board. But there obviously needs to be much clearer regulations in place which states who may carry firearms into the sterile areas. Police, wether Federal or State, must be allowed into these areas with their full appointments for the protection of all of us.
Again I apologise for any personal attacks.
"Come on was it not you that fired the first shot and getting personal with this comment.
What are we arguing about anyway for Chrissakes. Is it that police are allowed into sterile areas or not? Or is it the interpretation of regulations of which you keep cut and pasting? Or is it that maybe that some would like to see a police officer charged for boarding an aircraft in uniform with his firearm. Just so you know police, if, in uniform in public on duty are supposed to have their appointments on. Now, it is up to the staff at the gate to inform this officer that the firearm cannot be carried but is to be surrendered to the PIC to be carried in the confines of the cockpit.
Now that in itself is a little disconcerting when a few have already posted what if this officer had a screw loose while in possession of his firearm. Was it not a flight crew member that lost the plot and attacked his crew with a hammer in a DC-10. What if he had a gun the end result in that incident would have been tragically different.
I will bury the hatchet (so to speak) I retract any comment that may have offended you or your helo brothers. I apologise. I totally agree that no firearms should be allowed on board. But there obviously needs to be much clearer regulations in place which states who may carry firearms into the sterile areas. Police, wether Federal or State, must be allowed into these areas with their full appointments for the protection of all of us.
Again I apologise for any personal attacks.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Philippines
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guns on Planes
Forever, as far as I can remember, on N- registered aircraft, Law Enforcement Officers (after appropriate paperwork) were allowed to carry fully loaded weapons in the passenger cabin. Captain briefed espec. if there was more than one (diff agencies etc) as to seating positions for obvious reasons.
What is the big deal? If this particular cop broke regulations in Oz, maybe the regulations should be changed?
Funny thing is, as common as it was to have LEO's on a flight, there was a tragic shortage on the morning (too early?) on 9/11!
Ever taken a 9mm parrabellem (gun) to a boxcutter (knife) fight?
If so, & a few of the (myriad) feds/state/county/armed postal/fishery inspectors had have decided to take the early morning flights to the west coast, we probably would not be having this discussion.
What is the big deal? If this particular cop broke regulations in Oz, maybe the regulations should be changed?
Funny thing is, as common as it was to have LEO's on a flight, there was a tragic shortage on the morning (too early?) on 9/11!
Ever taken a 9mm parrabellem (gun) to a boxcutter (knife) fight?
If so, & a few of the (myriad) feds/state/county/armed postal/fishery inspectors had have decided to take the early morning flights to the west coast, we probably would not be having this discussion.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the big deal?
Because if the muppets are paranoid about a pilot being blackmailed and forced to bring a deadly bottle of water onto the plane, then they ought to be just a tad concerned about a copper being blackmailed in the same manner and being forced to taking his Glock onto a plane to leave in a seat pocket!
Ah, but no big deal.... because coppers are trustworthy, unlike those lawless pilots.
Because if the muppets are paranoid about a pilot being blackmailed and forced to bring a deadly bottle of water onto the plane, then they ought to be just a tad concerned about a copper being blackmailed in the same manner and being forced to taking his Glock onto a plane to leave in a seat pocket!
Ah, but no big deal.... because coppers are trustworthy, unlike those lawless pilots.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,974
Received 100 Likes
on
58 Posts
As a side issue; What I consider to be not a small worry is the knowledge that the average copper would be a pi$$ poor shot with their pistols, simply because they rarely get to practice with them.
The general theory is that if they find themselves in a position where they have to use their gun they are taught to point it at who/whatever they have to shoot at and 'empty the clip.'
Anyone who is a regular Pistol shooter knows that it is'nt easy to actually hit the target and to be an accurate shot requires a great deal of practice.
The general theory is that if they find themselves in a position where they have to use their gun they are taught to point it at who/whatever they have to shoot at and 'empty the clip.'
Anyone who is a regular Pistol shooter knows that it is'nt easy to actually hit the target and to be an accurate shot requires a great deal of practice.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: deepest darkest recess of your mind
Posts: 1,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Pinky, usually agree with your postings, but have to take exception to your "point at target and empty clip" quip. No, they aren't particularly good shots, but that is simply bull****. Never, ever has that been taught in my department. As an instructor there for over 10 years, I can state that. In fact, to do just that would open you up to being charged.........
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,974
Received 100 Likes
on
58 Posts
porch monkey; Apologies, I stand corrected.
Thanks for the clarification.
But the reason I made that statement is that there was, from memory, one State Police Force where in the past that was the (possibly unofficial) policy.
It became the subject of quite some debate at the time. (Well over a decade ago)
Thanks for the clarification.But the reason I made that statement is that there was, from memory, one State Police Force where in the past that was the (possibly unofficial) policy.
It became the subject of quite some debate at the time. (Well over a decade ago)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Double Tap Maybe ??
Stop or i'l shoot again.........Yes most officers would have a hard time hitting the side of a barn. I would be more concerned at some rouge officer punching a hole in the side of the Aircraft and the rapid de-pressurisation that would result.
Stop or i'l shoot again.........Yes most officers would have a hard time hitting the side of a barn. I would be more concerned at some rouge officer punching a hole in the side of the Aircraft and the rapid de-pressurisation that would result.
I would be more concerned at some rouge officer punching a hole in the side of the Aircraft
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: deepest darkest recess of your mind
Posts: 1,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Common misconception Pinky, and you are forgiven. BTW, if you're referring to the southern most stateof the country, excepting the detached part, then I can assure it has never been taught that way. What is interesting is that the "empty the gun" thing isn't taught, but does occur. It's related to the lack of training in some respects, but to a large degree on the "Fight or Flight " principle. Go figure!! The basic premise, as taught however, is that you fire until the threat is incapacitated. That may take 1 round, it may take 10, it may not happen at all. But the instant you fire MORE that that required is the instant you get to face the judge. Just out of interest, the usual score for shots fired versus hits on offenders is just over 60% where I used to work. Not high, I agree, but a fair degree higher than all the other departments in Australia. Of course, while most people would say how hard can it be, and many people have tried it on targets, there is one BIG difference!!! Paper targets aren't trying to kill you
Just out of interest, the usual score for shots fired versus hits on offenders is just over 60% where I used to work. Not high, I agree, but a fair degree higher than all the other departments in Australia. Of course, while most people would say how hard can it be, and many people have tried it on targets, there is one BIG difference!!! Paper targets aren't trying to kill you
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
neville_nobody
So could a Bullet not blow out a window? who is to say that a structural failure would not occur.
O.k lets try it..? You go first
A bullet hole in the side of an aircraft isn't enough to cause a rapid decompression. You'd need a bomb to go off or structural failure
O.k lets try it..? You go first
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: inner suburbia
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mythbusters actually did a segment about this a while ago.
neville_nobody is right.. Blowing-out a window would be very unpleasant, or even fatal, to the nearby pax, but it is very hard to make a catastrophic structural failure with just a bullet hole.
neville_nobody is right.. Blowing-out a window would be very unpleasant, or even fatal, to the nearby pax, but it is very hard to make a catastrophic structural failure with just a bullet hole.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: LHR
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but it is very hard to make a catastrophic structural failure with just a bullet hole
Hitting a hydraulic line or damaging some electrical wires can be disastrous too...but we still have some alternates to avoid the worst... what i fear the most is if the bullet pierces and ignites the central fuel tank.
kABOUM!
Nunc est bibendum
Anyone seen the size of an outflow valve on an airliner? About the size of a window- the 744 has two of them. That's the size of the hole in the plane every time it goes up.
A bullet hole through a window is barely going to make a bit of difference. If the whole window goes it may be noisy and it may be chilly but it isn't going to be catastrophic.
A bullet through the aircraft structure has risks but down through the fuselage is going to be the shot most likely to cause havoc. Even then you've got to be pretty lucky (or unlucky depending on which way you want to view it) to hit something critical enough to disable the aircraft.
A bullet hole through a window is barely going to make a bit of difference. If the whole window goes it may be noisy and it may be chilly but it isn't going to be catastrophic.
A bullet through the aircraft structure has risks but down through the fuselage is going to be the shot most likely to cause havoc. Even then you've got to be pretty lucky (or unlucky depending on which way you want to view it) to hit something critical enough to disable the aircraft.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunnunda for a while
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slightly OT, but nevertheless..
Whilst collecting my bags at the INTL terminal last week (0620 arrival, the place was packed) an advertising billboard fell flat onto the floor. Made an almighty bang which could have been mistaken for a gunshot. How many rent-a-cop types came rushing to the scene? That's right, none. One AQIS bloke came over with a 'Not my problem' kinda look on his face a minute or so later.
Security are Australian Airports is a Joke