RAAF ATC Staffing Levels
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aoteoroa
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Townsville in the 70's
Sad to hear how the service has seemingly deteriorated in TVL .... I was there for 4 years in early 70's when Aerodrome & PAR were RAAF and all the rest was civvy doing it the old way - procedurally. As a Blue Boy myself I had the greatest of respect at the way the civvies did the Approach job and was amazed that the RAAF would try and take that role on in the first place .... manning & experience levels were a problem even then !
If any of the old guys are still around - Stainless, Beachball, Patto etc. drop me a PM - I'm with Airways now - still on radar with McGoo glasses in Christchurch Centre.
Unless you remember Neptunes flying there you're not in the right generation !!!
Cheers ....
If any of the old guys are still around - Stainless, Beachball, Patto etc. drop me a PM - I'm with Airways now - still on radar with McGoo glasses in Christchurch Centre.
Unless you remember Neptunes flying there you're not in the right generation !!!
Cheers ....
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
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Always give the Tower a call with questions/problems/explanations. Done so a number of times and had nothing but good (sometimes hearty) outcomes.
We sometimes stuff it, they sometimes stuff it. The fact is it is a team effort to reach the same goal.
We sometimes stuff it, they sometimes stuff it. The fact is it is a team effort to reach the same goal.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW- 3rd world state
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Maxgrad, nice to hear, we need more like you out there. Its not hard is it, just pick up the phone and call. 
I often ring the instructors if there is a drama with a student or something unusual happens, I learn stuff and so do they.
You can sort out heaps at the bar with a few cold ones.
I often ring the instructors if there is a drama with a student or something unusual happens, I learn stuff and so do they.
You can sort out heaps at the bar with a few cold ones.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: OZ
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mmm
Well if the RAAF were a little more flexible in selecting personnel for ATC, then maybe they wouldnt be in this position.
In 99 i took an out of mustering posting to a RAAF ATC unit as a Flight Data to learn as much as i could, with the view of becoming an Air Traffic Controller.
The education standards at the time stated that 4 year 12 subjects were required, with English being the only compulsory subject.
On advice from a teacher at the college i studied at, decided not to do year 12 maths considering it wasnt a required subject at the time (surprisingly!) and did the 4 year 12 subjects.
After a year and a half at the ATC unit, and with newly acquired year 12 subjects in hand, i applied, only to be told that i didnt have year 12 maths!
I argued the point stating it wasnt a required subject, yet they point blank refused, even after a controller at that unit got on the phone to recruiting and argued with them. It should not have been a reason to at least not let me participate in the testing process.
In fact it still isnt a required subject, but is highly desirable.
And before you say anything, yes with hindsight i should have done year 12 maths, but keep in mind this;
I had done the required 4 year 12 subjects as per requirements, i held a private pilots licence and done a year and a half at an ATC unit learning as much as i could.
Do you think i should have been given the chance at least to test with the above experience and quals?
Now keep in mind that if i had been just ONE rank higher (sergeant) i would have been given an education exemption and allowed to apply with year 11 alone.
How frustrating was it for me to see Sergeants, of which i knew 2 because they came for a visit to the unit, with just year 11 exclaiming they saw it advertised and "thought they would have a crack", only to hear about one of them crashing and burning inside a month, when i had been working towards that goal for 2 years?
I am sitting back and enjoying watching the RAAF suffer, couldnt be more happier.
Am i bitter after almost 10 years, hell yes?!!!!!
In 99 i took an out of mustering posting to a RAAF ATC unit as a Flight Data to learn as much as i could, with the view of becoming an Air Traffic Controller.
The education standards at the time stated that 4 year 12 subjects were required, with English being the only compulsory subject.
On advice from a teacher at the college i studied at, decided not to do year 12 maths considering it wasnt a required subject at the time (surprisingly!) and did the 4 year 12 subjects.
After a year and a half at the ATC unit, and with newly acquired year 12 subjects in hand, i applied, only to be told that i didnt have year 12 maths!
I argued the point stating it wasnt a required subject, yet they point blank refused, even after a controller at that unit got on the phone to recruiting and argued with them. It should not have been a reason to at least not let me participate in the testing process.
In fact it still isnt a required subject, but is highly desirable.
And before you say anything, yes with hindsight i should have done year 12 maths, but keep in mind this;
I had done the required 4 year 12 subjects as per requirements, i held a private pilots licence and done a year and a half at an ATC unit learning as much as i could.
Do you think i should have been given the chance at least to test with the above experience and quals?
Now keep in mind that if i had been just ONE rank higher (sergeant) i would have been given an education exemption and allowed to apply with year 11 alone.
How frustrating was it for me to see Sergeants, of which i knew 2 because they came for a visit to the unit, with just year 11 exclaiming they saw it advertised and "thought they would have a crack", only to hear about one of them crashing and burning inside a month, when i had been working towards that goal for 2 years?
I am sitting back and enjoying watching the RAAF suffer, couldnt be more happier.
Am i bitter after almost 10 years, hell yes?!!!!!
VH-UFO
The ADF is very inflexible when it comes to these things. I too left the ADF due to transfer troubles and have had no problem acheiving my goals outside. A friend of mine, 28 years old, recently applied for Commando (reserve). He has a BA (not much but still a degree
) and passed all required fitness and apptitude testing, but they will not accept him until he can produce his year 10 results!
Oh well, their loss
The ADF is very inflexible when it comes to these things. I too left the ADF due to transfer troubles and have had no problem acheiving my goals outside. A friend of mine, 28 years old, recently applied for Commando (reserve). He has a BA (not much but still a degree
) and passed all required fitness and apptitude testing, but they will not accept him until he can produce his year 10 results!Oh well, their loss
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: a Galaxy far far away
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mental patients running the assylum
As an Ex-ATCO who was forced to leave the service because of not achieving a pass in Advanced Course (RAdar/Approach), yet having every other ATC qual. on offer, I have no sympathy for the inevitable demise of the category. Run by morons in 44WG unable or unwilling to recognise the value in having quals worthy of retaining, they now have to deal with not having enough controllers to maintain the 44wg empire. Some of the 'smarter' of the bunch have already departed to civvy street, undoubtadly to take their attitudes and predjuces with them. This was evidenced, I believe, by the change to staffing where new controllers were required to rotate around bases, as is the case in the RAAF.
So the loss of experience will continue and as a current Airline Pilot plying the airways around Australia I smile when I think of the continued degradation of a once great category, and of the people responsible (or not responsible as the case may be)
So the loss of experience will continue and as a current Airline Pilot plying the airways around Australia I smile when I think of the continued degradation of a once great category, and of the people responsible (or not responsible as the case may be)
Join Date: Jul 2008
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I've worked for both organisations and they both face the same issues, they are desperately short of qualified controllers but don't want to fess up the reality of situation. I left the RAAF knowing the situation was bad at AsA, but I'd just had enough. Having said that, the mood on the floor in the centres is just as bad, possibly worse than in the RAAF.
What I find interesting is that you hear talk of recruiting campaigns and getting the numbers in the door, but neither organisation has taken a real objective look at the way it trains at the coalface to ensure it is getting the best possible product in the shortest amount of time. When I was in the RAAF (and I make an assumption that its still the same), becoming a training officer was career development and essentially mandatory. So it wasn't about selecting and training suitable candidates who would provide quality instruction. I know that some units simply chose not to use some people in these roles, but others had no choice.
Please note that I am not tainting all with the same brush, I've seen some exceptional training officers in the RAAF; but not everyone is cut out to teach/provide instruction, and some probably don't even have an interest in it.
So perhaps it can be said that the quality of the product you produce is indicative of the time, effort and money you are prepared to resource it with. Of course if you're with AsA, then at least you'll potentially have until the next ice age in the same sector to gain experience to overcome any possible training shortfalls.
What I find interesting is that you hear talk of recruiting campaigns and getting the numbers in the door, but neither organisation has taken a real objective look at the way it trains at the coalface to ensure it is getting the best possible product in the shortest amount of time. When I was in the RAAF (and I make an assumption that its still the same), becoming a training officer was career development and essentially mandatory. So it wasn't about selecting and training suitable candidates who would provide quality instruction. I know that some units simply chose not to use some people in these roles, but others had no choice.
Please note that I am not tainting all with the same brush, I've seen some exceptional training officers in the RAAF; but not everyone is cut out to teach/provide instruction, and some probably don't even have an interest in it.
So perhaps it can be said that the quality of the product you produce is indicative of the time, effort and money you are prepared to resource it with. Of course if you're with AsA, then at least you'll potentially have until the next ice age in the same sector to gain experience to overcome any possible training shortfalls.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asia
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@ Track Coastal
310 knots and 270kts?
Wow, why don't atc's come up with pearls of wisdom like this? Perhaps you should switch to ATC and earn more money if it's that easy.
Actually, this will not achieve you 5 Nm spacing in the approach environment unless captain courageous is able to put his jet on the runway at 310 kts.
310 knots and 270kts?
Wow, why don't atc's come up with pearls of wisdom like this? Perhaps you should switch to ATC and earn more money if it's that easy.
Actually, this will not achieve you 5 Nm spacing in the approach environment unless captain courageous is able to put his jet on the runway at 310 kts.
