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Broome/kununurra Airspace Review

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Broome/kununurra Airspace Review

Old 29th May 2008, 04:54
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Broome/kununurra Airspace Review

I see CASA has finally decided to look at some contentious WA airspace. What's the bet that a Class D tower, topped by procedural Class E gets a mention in dispatches....or maybe the NAS people will argue that a US style CTAF is all that was ever needed.....
WELLCONCERNED is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 05:37
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Expensive consultants?

From CASA's website

Broome and Kununurra airspace review sessions
Broome and Kununurra aerodromes are serviced by an increasing number of aircraft for a range of operators, and the type and size of these aircraft has changed over recent years.

As is occurring at other locations around Australia, an increasing amount of air-traffic may have out-grown the current airspace architecture.

The CASA Office of Airspace Regulation (OAR) has engaged Strategic Airspace (StratAir) to conduct an independent review of the airspace within 20NM of each of the aerodromes.

The reviews will address the type and frequency of operations, with particular emphasis on passenger transport operations.

The OAR study parameters include safety, efficiency and the provision of equitable access to the airspace by all airspace users. As such, assessment of risks to all users and particularly to passenger transport operations will be a key part of the study.

The outcome of the review will include recommendations concerning the current state of the airspace and associated air traffic/air navigation services and facilities.

The StratAir team will be conducting onsite briefings and individual interviews in the region. We encourage attendance at the group briefings and Q&A sessions.

Follow-up interviews on an individual or small group basis can also be arranged at times and venues that suit you. Note also that confidentiality can be assured.

Session details
Kununurra
Wednesday 28th May to Saturday 31st May 2008
Open Briefing and Q&A Sessions:
Wed 28th: 0800-0900, and 1800-1900
Fri 30th: 0800-0900, and 1800-1900 (if required)
Location: Old FIS Building, near Kununurra Airport Terminal Building
Contact: Airport Managerís Office ó tel: 08 9168 2648
Broome
Monday 2nd June to Sunday 8th June 2008
Open Briefing and Q&A Sessions:
Tue 3rd: 1000-1100
Thu 5th: 1500-1600
Location: Boardroom, Broome International Airport Terminal Building
Contact: Olivia (Airport Managerís Office) ó tel: 08 9194 0600
For further information and/or to arrange a private interview, please contact the onsite consultant directly in the first instance, or leave a message at the Airport Managerís office. Enquiries can also be directed to the StratAir office through Bob Gardiner on 0422 201 620 or 029380 9777 or email [email protected] or through the Office of Airspace Regulation on 02 6217 1855 or email [email protected]

So does anyone have any goss/rumours on "staagegicairspace"??????
Jamitupyr is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 05:39
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We do not need an effing tower at Broome. My only hassle is trying to squeeze my 115 pax into the sequence of millions of lighties - if there was a rule that they had to remain out of our way for the short time we arrive and depart, all would be well and we wouldn't be lumped with the cost of a tower.

As for procedural E, my thoughts are well known - a WOFTAM. More controllers for little extra benefit, with mandatory transponders for all until you get to the control zone.

And how about interviews in Perth? Many of us fly to Broome but you wouldn't get me living there in a pink fit!
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 06:38
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KNX abd BRM are really really simple.

Make it mandatory for ALL FLIGHTS regardless of operations (VFR included) to lodge a FLIGHT PLAN and operate full reporting for the last 20 minutes of flight for entering aircraft or 20 minutes after take off for departing aircraft so traffic can be given to all at a greater distance than 4 minutes before circuit entry.

Nothing else needs to be changed.
Niles Crane is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 08:28
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So what is wrong with the CAGRO service giving you 'conflicting' traffic only - as you come and go?

'Conflicting' = if you don't need to know, you don't waste time and space by telling. e.g. You inbound from the SSW, don't need to know who HAS departed to the N.
Ex FSO GRIFFO is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 08:32
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Who do they expect to man these towers ?
MattAA is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 08:47
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Is that how we establish/de-establish Towers now ... an "Independent Review" followed by recommendations ? Geez, Dick could have given us that!

What happended to Cost Benefit Analyses, Models and formulas? or am I living in the past?
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Old 29th May 2008, 09:44
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i heard they are looking at opening the karratha tower again
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Old 29th May 2008, 09:51
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I haven't flown into Broome or Kun for a few years now, I guess it's nufin' like the good 'ole days where the F28 would slip on up from Port H do a low fly over of Cable beach & land. Capt would say, "little in the way of white pointers today"
And I miss the Bishop
Do we honestly need more regulation up that way?

CW
Capt Wally is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 10:06
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As for procedural E..
Que?


More Controllers. Now there is an interesting combination of words.

I see in the press yesterday that the CEO of Airservices said there were 897 operational controllers and that they were only 21 short - and despite this they were vigorously recruiting worldwide.

If only 0.23% short why the vigorous recruitment? And why is there more TIBA than Africa?

Perhaps it is that there are actually around 740 operational controllers - and the numbers of 'missing' are in fact a lot higher?
BN APP 125.6 is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 10:29
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Tower Tower

The local tourist authority at these popular tourist traps, should build a basic tower, stick a controller in it who likes the odd surf or dive, spread the cost over the local business houses over the season, and salivate at the cashed up pax rolling of the airplanes. 'Cos if Airdisservce sticks one in, the fares'll sure rocket.
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Old 29th May 2008, 10:57
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Ah, Wally,

If only some of THE more 'junior' pilots had a smaller ego and a bigger 'Common Sense' - formerly called 'Airmanship' ......

I have seen some 'thingis horribilis' at times - like, when a BN2 guy taxied out after the 737, and the 73 goes to the E or 'Town' end, a short taxi to turn around and 'go', - then finds he has to spend time WAITING for a silly (read STOOPID, inconsiderate) BN2 guy, roll, take-off, climb at his 65 kts or whatever,- and CONTINUE to climb thru to 1,500ft so HE can do a right hand turn to HIS track....meanwhile....the 73 is sitting, waiting, burning fuel,....

Even a BIG hint on the radio that there was NO TRAFFIC for a 'Non Standard' Right turn @500ft turn did not get to this guy!
(The Fast Mover to PH turns LEFT to intercept the 200deg Tr outbound..)

In OUR era, if WE were flying the BN2, we would see the 73 get away quickly, and then we would T/O & climb well before his rotate point (easily done) to avoid his Wake Turb, followed by the 'normal' Left turn @ 500ft to let everybody else go.....

Nothing actually Illegal in this, but.........."AIRMANSHIP".....

And the 210 'Ace' who did not wait for a traffic statement, did not look, entered the rwy at a 'good pace' and caused an acft - one of his 'mates' - on FINAL some concern...

Ah, yes! With a bit of Common Sense- it could all be so
E A S Y ....
Ex FSO GRIFFO is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 12:01
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topend 3, I heard the same re Karratha twr from airport management.
Islander Jock is offline  
Old 29th May 2008, 12:10
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Broome Radio

Can any one "sensibly" explain the purpose or Broome radio? is he there just for guidance to pass on traffic both IFR an VFR but cant actually issue clearances just "advice"

and does he ever have a day off? every time i fly no mater what day of the year it is, its always the same voice....

cheers
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Old 29th May 2008, 13:06
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The purpose is to pass traffic information to those that need it. It is supposed to reduce radio traffic and improve safety. There are at least two voices but they both have a similar grumpy what-idiot-move-will-I-see-next tone. It works well with moderate traffic levels, but I think it breaks down at high traffic levels. Personally I'd like to see a tower there, OR a full length taxiway big enough for a B737. I once had to wait on the ground for 40 minutes because there was a string of arrivals all 1 minute apart. The taxiway would greatly improve the flow.
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Old 29th May 2008, 13:26
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thanks Aerocat,

i have just noticed that all of the traffic is passed on from center then as soon as you reach Broome Radio it gets passed on again. or is its main job to pass on the VFR stuff in the area?
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Old 29th May 2008, 14:29
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The centre only passes IFR traffic to arriving or departing aircraft within 10 minutes (more or less...). There is no coordination between the controller and the CAGRO. They are simply following their respective mandates, hence why you might receive duplicated traffic (but the CAGRO does monitor the centre frequency).

If Skywest & Airnorth (plus the remainding QFA and DJ jets, and local IFR operators - coastwatch, Skippers etc...) actually invested and bought some bloody ADSB IN/OUT kits with their shiny new jets, and then if Airservices maybe "subsidised" some kits for the VFRies, yours and the controller's situational awareness in the circuit area would be 1000% improved. Perhaps the "airspace" would not have to be changed at all...

Given that centre controllers can now, for example, "see" the RFDS guys on their screens (fitted with donated ADSB kits from ASA) backtracking on the YBRM runway, and then which direction turn they take along the taxiway, the surveillance resolution is potentially 5 times better than radar.

The ADSB ground gear is all installed and waiting to go... Flick a switch and suddenly you get a significantly enhanced radar service in the middle of the boonies... Whether the airspace users choose to use it for the benefit of inceased safety is up to the them and the regulator...
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Old 29th May 2008, 21:34
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Kununurra IFR procs

I'd be really cautious about flying any of the published approaches at YPKU in IMC.

They were checked by CASA/ANSA in mid 2007 and lots of errors were found and reported back to CASA/ANSA.

BUT no changes have been made since. Typical Air NO SERVICE Australia.

One wet season has passed without someone clipping the hill. Can we get through the next wet season?

If you find that you are not lined up with the runway on final of any of the SIA approaches, as shown on the charts, LET YOUR LOCAL CASA MAN KNOW and put in an incident report.

Check your JEPP plates against the DAP plates. Apart from the different formats, there are proc differences.
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Old 30th May 2008, 01:06
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When things get busy at BRM, the cagro is better of keeping off the radio as there is just too much talk.

The Cagro is fine for low and medium density traffic, but useless when busy.

The problem with getting VFR traffic off the cagro is you can get up to 10 VFR aircraft flying in and out at 30 nm when you are screeming throught 10000' doing 8nm a minute. By the time you get it all you are downwind and not even started traffic resolution.

Many a time I have joind down wind at 10000" and descended over water for a 5nm final onto 10.

KNX is even worse as the pilots there have no experience other than "Dick Space" so they either say nothing or make all 15 calls!

KNX will be our first Jet included mid air.
Niles Crane is offline  
Old 30th May 2008, 02:41
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I'll bet Airservices are kicking themselves for allowing airspace regulation powers to slip into the hands of CASA amateurs! At least when they had the powers they could obfuscate and block attempts to introduce controlled airspace to save the embarrassment of not being able to staff newly mandated controlled airspace!

First Avalon - now Broome and Kununurra - soon Karratha - what next! Maybe the regulator will mandate the provision of control services in upper en-route airspace [currently designated Class A]!! Heaven forbid Airservices would have to do what it is actually supposed to do!!

Tootle Pip.
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