Jet* Importing Pilots
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Queensland
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jet* Importing Pilots
Lots of topics on the go at present but I just heard on the local ABC news that Jetstar is going to "import" 75 pilots, didn't say at what level of course (captains?) or where from.
I know we live in a globalised aviation labour market but can I assume from this that the pilot application 'in' trays for Jetstar and Qantas are empty or there is just insufficient pilots applying for the positions needed?
It was stated that no Australian jobs would be lost.
How easy is it to recruit from overseas when there is a global shortage? Will the standards be the same as here?
Any comments?
I know we live in a globalised aviation labour market but can I assume from this that the pilot application 'in' trays for Jetstar and Qantas are empty or there is just insufficient pilots applying for the positions needed?
It was stated that no Australian jobs would be lost.
How easy is it to recruit from overseas when there is a global shortage? Will the standards be the same as here?
Any comments?
Last edited by hadagutful; 26th May 2008 at 02:02.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NSW
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See post below by AIPA's President - transferred without comment from the Qantas Pilots' chat site:-
Ian Woods 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,313
While I am concerned to read that Qantas Jetstar is intending to bring in direct entry A330/320 Captains, it is also disapointing to note that industrially it would not be possible if Jetstar EBA 4 didn't facilitate it.
Nonetheless, before any bites down too hard and breaks a tooth, I need to point out that it is not yet a fait accompli?
Unless the pilots concerned are in fact Australians returning home from far flung parts of the globe to take advantage of the 17% pay rise imbedded in Jetstar EBA 4, the quote: "has secured the support of Immigration Minister Chris Evans and Employment Minister Julia Gillard," may not mean the Government has issued and/or approved the issuing of the necessary employment visas.
While I have no doubt that the Ministers support Qantas Jetstar's application for 457 Visas; as I understand the approval process, Qantas Jetstar Management are required to consult and agree with AIPA and AFAP as part of the approval process.
As for the quote: "the first visas was processed last week" - it probably was. Without any consulation whatsoever, the outgoing Coalition Government gave approval on the quiet for a small number of Visas sometime before the 2007 Federal Election.
Don't jump yet, visit: www.aph.gov.au and send an email to your Local Federal Member, cc, Ministers Gillard and Evans leting them know that Qantas Jetstar does not have a shortage of pilots - just a maldistribution created by Management's desire to silo Qantas, Jetstar and Qantaslink pilots.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,313
While I am concerned to read that Qantas Jetstar is intending to bring in direct entry A330/320 Captains, it is also disapointing to note that industrially it would not be possible if Jetstar EBA 4 didn't facilitate it.
Nonetheless, before any bites down too hard and breaks a tooth, I need to point out that it is not yet a fait accompli?
Unless the pilots concerned are in fact Australians returning home from far flung parts of the globe to take advantage of the 17% pay rise imbedded in Jetstar EBA 4, the quote: "has secured the support of Immigration Minister Chris Evans and Employment Minister Julia Gillard," may not mean the Government has issued and/or approved the issuing of the necessary employment visas.
While I have no doubt that the Ministers support Qantas Jetstar's application for 457 Visas; as I understand the approval process, Qantas Jetstar Management are required to consult and agree with AIPA and AFAP as part of the approval process.
As for the quote: "the first visas was processed last week" - it probably was. Without any consulation whatsoever, the outgoing Coalition Government gave approval on the quiet for a small number of Visas sometime before the 2007 Federal Election.
Don't jump yet, visit: www.aph.gov.au and send an email to your Local Federal Member, cc, Ministers Gillard and Evans leting them know that Qantas Jetstar does not have a shortage of pilots - just a maldistribution created by Management's desire to silo Qantas, Jetstar and Qantaslink pilots.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are NOT Australians returning home from overseas. Australian Financial Review 26/05/2008:
http://www.afr.com/home/viewer.aspx?EDP://20080526000020707717&magsection=news-breaking&portal=_home&title=Jetstar+flies+into+foreign+pilot s+row&source=/_xmlfeeds/news/feed.xml
In the clawprints of the Silver Budgie follow Kevin 07 and tribe. As ye sew (or have sewn), so shall ye reap.
http://www.afr.com/home/viewer.aspx?EDP://20080526000020707717&magsection=news-breaking&portal=_home&title=Jetstar+flies+into+foreign+pilot s+row&source=/_xmlfeeds/news/feed.xml
In the clawprints of the Silver Budgie follow Kevin 07 and tribe. As ye sew (or have sewn), so shall ye reap.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hotel, Crew Bus, Flight Deck, Hotel
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aussie Not Returning Home
I have been looking at what opportunities exsit in Aus to return home to fly.
The fact is the pay and conditions are not worth it.
They cannot get Aus pilots to return for that reason.
I guess Ill return to Aus once I retire from flying
The fact is the pay and conditions are not worth it.
They cannot get Aus pilots to return for that reason.
I guess Ill return to Aus once I retire from flying
Just exacerbates the "chronic shortage" abroad I suppose.
Is it only the QF pilots putting up a fight against this? What about the Jetstar pilots? Virgin Blue or the AFAP?
The standard is appalling in the Airbus contract world. Caveat emptor!
Is it only the QF pilots putting up a fight against this? What about the Jetstar pilots? Virgin Blue or the AFAP?
The standard is appalling in the Airbus contract world. Caveat emptor!
Email has been sent. This is something I will fight long and hard against.
For those wanting to do the same, here are the email addresses:
[email protected]
[email protected]
And to get an email address for your local member, go here:
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memlist.pdf
Cheers,
TL
For those wanting to do the same, here are the email addresses:
[email protected]
[email protected]
And to get an email address for your local member, go here:
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memlist.pdf
Cheers,
TL
The point has been well made that this crisis is Global. As such, J* may find that to make this sort of thing work, they will have to Compete for the necessary labour.
Oooops....!
All the way down the food chain airline managers are looking at importing overseas pilots rather than retain their existing experience base with better terms and conditions. Doomed to failure guys.
Stop grasping at straws and embrace the reality. Otherwise you will be the ones without a chair when the music stops.
Oooops....!
All the way down the food chain airline managers are looking at importing overseas pilots rather than retain their existing experience base with better terms and conditions. Doomed to failure guys.
Stop grasping at straws and embrace the reality. Otherwise you will be the ones without a chair when the music stops.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 26th May 2008 at 04:01.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A very interesting letter from Capt Woods to the troops. As he states, don't get all wound up over something that hasn't happened yet. What I thought was particularly interesting is the admission that EBA 4 provided the pilots with a 17% payrise! BTW the talk is of a recruiting slow down so I think 75 pilots from overseas is a speculative figure. The other possibility if the figure is correct is that they would be sent to Vietnam to crew all the new '320s there.
Just another minor point, it's not Qantas Jetstar, it's Jetstar, a Qantas Group Airline.
Just another minor point, it's not Qantas Jetstar, it's Jetstar, a Qantas Group Airline.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Krusty34, unfortunately there is a "trump card" in the deck - Australian citizenship.
Many will come at any price to gain the Aussie passport for their family. Once obtained, I'm sure many will become "soldiers of fortune" to the highest bidder.
Any prospective pilot should consider if this is the industry for them, given that rewards for risk are diminishing rapidly.
Many will come at any price to gain the Aussie passport for their family. Once obtained, I'm sure many will become "soldiers of fortune" to the highest bidder.
Any prospective pilot should consider if this is the industry for them, given that rewards for risk are diminishing rapidly.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or
Otherwise you will be the ones without a chair when the music stops
I say, choose a different chair and leave them to it. Finally the words "profession" and "pilot" are partners no more.
I'm sorry but what is happening here is incredible. Forget the young'ins getting into aviation now, what's the point?
sigh.....
I say, choose a different chair and leave them to it. Finally the words "profession" and "pilot" are partners no more.
I'm sorry but what is happening here is incredible. Forget the young'ins getting into aviation now, what's the point?
sigh.....
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For what it's worth, a copy of the letter I sent to: [email protected]
Dear Ms Gillard
Just a quick email to explain my situation and express some concern at the Jetstar plan to unnecessarily recruit overseas pilots.
I am an Australian pilot, living and working overseas since 1991.
.
As a result of the then oversupply of pilots (exacerbated by the collapse of Ansett), airline bosses took the opportunity to aggressively suppress and actually cut employment terms and conditions for pilots. Whilst that may have been their prerogative as profit-oriented individuals, as the current ‘predicament’ attests, it was shortsighted. It is a direct consequence of this action (that made the return on the investment of training to become a pilot unviable) that regional airlines are now faced with a pilot shortage – and the airline managers have the audacity to complain about it! The likes of Qantas/Jetstar and Virgin still have many Australian pilots available to them.
The airline manager’s statements that they need to employ foreign pilots to remedy the situation is nonsense.
The reality is that this foreign recruitment drive is simply a further attempt to suppress the salaries of Australian pilots. Jetstar’s Alan Joyce talks about being in a global market, but if the airline were paying globally competitive salaries, Australian pilots would remain in the country rather than leaving in droves as they now do for the likes of Emirates and Cathay Pacific.
Additionally, there is a reason that Australian airlines have historically been amongst the world’s safest and that is due categorically to the extensive (and expensive) training that is mandated by CASA at all levels in the industry. I have flown for many years overseas with pilots from all nations and I can confirm (without being xenophobic) that the standard of initial and recurrent aircrew training that CASA regulation demands is superior to all. By attempting to employ non-Australian trained aircrew, Jetstar will effectively bypass this critical safety valve.
In my own case, I am an Australian citizen, possess more than the maximum qualifications suggested for Jetstar employment (I am a Captain with thousands of hours on the very aircraft Jetstar fly) but having applied online many months ago have failed to receive even a reply. I am not alone in being in this situation.
On a global basis, the Jetstar package is poor but I am potentially prepared to sacrifice financial rewards in order to have my children live back in the country of their birth and to be near their relatives. Having spoken personally to some of the South African pilots involved in the Jetstar 457 work visa situation, they are appalled at the low salaries Jetstar are paying and are planning only to temporarily work for the airline in order to obtain Australian residency.
In summary, I believe that airline managers are manipulatively creating a smokescreen with their cries of a pilot shortage and therefore ‘being forced’ to employ pilots from overseas. They are trying to hoodwink government authorities into allowing them to employ non-Australian pilots when in fact there are many Australian pilots prepared to work for these operators, particularly if they pay globally competitive salaries.
In your capacity as Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, could I implore you to deflect the misleading claims of the airlines in their attempt to gain 457 work visas for non-Australian pilots and instead revamp their terms and conditions of employment to retain qualified Australian pilots, of which there are thousands.
Thank you for you time.
A. Le Rhone
Could I suggest that all of us similarly write to Evans and Gillard. It takes 5 minutes and can't hurt.
Dear Ms Gillard
Just a quick email to explain my situation and express some concern at the Jetstar plan to unnecessarily recruit overseas pilots.
I am an Australian pilot, living and working overseas since 1991.
.
As a result of the then oversupply of pilots (exacerbated by the collapse of Ansett), airline bosses took the opportunity to aggressively suppress and actually cut employment terms and conditions for pilots. Whilst that may have been their prerogative as profit-oriented individuals, as the current ‘predicament’ attests, it was shortsighted. It is a direct consequence of this action (that made the return on the investment of training to become a pilot unviable) that regional airlines are now faced with a pilot shortage – and the airline managers have the audacity to complain about it! The likes of Qantas/Jetstar and Virgin still have many Australian pilots available to them.
The airline manager’s statements that they need to employ foreign pilots to remedy the situation is nonsense.
The reality is that this foreign recruitment drive is simply a further attempt to suppress the salaries of Australian pilots. Jetstar’s Alan Joyce talks about being in a global market, but if the airline were paying globally competitive salaries, Australian pilots would remain in the country rather than leaving in droves as they now do for the likes of Emirates and Cathay Pacific.
Additionally, there is a reason that Australian airlines have historically been amongst the world’s safest and that is due categorically to the extensive (and expensive) training that is mandated by CASA at all levels in the industry. I have flown for many years overseas with pilots from all nations and I can confirm (without being xenophobic) that the standard of initial and recurrent aircrew training that CASA regulation demands is superior to all. By attempting to employ non-Australian trained aircrew, Jetstar will effectively bypass this critical safety valve.
In my own case, I am an Australian citizen, possess more than the maximum qualifications suggested for Jetstar employment (I am a Captain with thousands of hours on the very aircraft Jetstar fly) but having applied online many months ago have failed to receive even a reply. I am not alone in being in this situation.
On a global basis, the Jetstar package is poor but I am potentially prepared to sacrifice financial rewards in order to have my children live back in the country of their birth and to be near their relatives. Having spoken personally to some of the South African pilots involved in the Jetstar 457 work visa situation, they are appalled at the low salaries Jetstar are paying and are planning only to temporarily work for the airline in order to obtain Australian residency.
In summary, I believe that airline managers are manipulatively creating a smokescreen with their cries of a pilot shortage and therefore ‘being forced’ to employ pilots from overseas. They are trying to hoodwink government authorities into allowing them to employ non-Australian pilots when in fact there are many Australian pilots prepared to work for these operators, particularly if they pay globally competitive salaries.
In your capacity as Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, could I implore you to deflect the misleading claims of the airlines in their attempt to gain 457 work visas for non-Australian pilots and instead revamp their terms and conditions of employment to retain qualified Australian pilots, of which there are thousands.
Thank you for you time.
A. Le Rhone
Could I suggest that all of us similarly write to Evans and Gillard. It takes 5 minutes and can't hurt.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting to see that some of the low cost operators are folding overseas due fuel costs. I wonder how the low cost operators in Aus will handle this and if this will have an impact on recruitment as Perm FO says.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: tassie
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been in contact with my local minister who is in a very marginal liberal seat.
She has said that this issue will be raised in parliment and will
contact me when she has more info.
Hopefully she will do this and put some pressure on the labour government, but i'm not holding my breath.
I'm almost ashamed to say I work for these pack of greedy bastards.
Message to you Alan Joyce, every dog has his day and hopefully your comes soon. ditto for Mr Dixson.....
She has said that this issue will be raised in parliment and will
contact me when she has more info.
Hopefully she will do this and put some pressure on the labour government, but i'm not holding my breath.
I'm almost ashamed to say I work for these pack of greedy bastards.
Message to you Alan Joyce, every dog has his day and hopefully your comes soon. ditto for Mr Dixson.....