Pilot Pay and the shame game
Hate to tell you this Greeslopes, but getting pilots to come together, agree on an issue, develop a plan, execute the plan and then stick together to see it thru is, (sigh) not unlike trying to herd cats. Made worse by the fact that GD et'al also know it.
As much as I would like to, you cant compare the mining industry with the aviation industry.
The aviation industry has different levels as far as the career of a pilot is concerned. You start flying bug smashers in remote aus or instruct in bugsmashers. Then you go into turbo props. From there its airlines if you are lucky enough. The problem is there are so many people trying to move up the ladder that they will go for reduced conditons (because they are better than what they are now on e.g. i would rather get 50K on a metro than 28K on a 210).
In the mining industry, there isnt a ladder. These guys dont have little mines to build experience at less pay, with the hope of moving onto bigger mines that pay better.
If the day ever comes when there is no longer GA and turbo props, only major airlines with jets, then people wont be in a hurry to climb the ladder as there wont be one to climb. I dont think this day will ever come in aus as we dont have the population to support it. If it ever did hyperthetically happen, it would be a sad day as GA is where I have had the most fun!
Lemel
The aviation industry has different levels as far as the career of a pilot is concerned. You start flying bug smashers in remote aus or instruct in bugsmashers. Then you go into turbo props. From there its airlines if you are lucky enough. The problem is there are so many people trying to move up the ladder that they will go for reduced conditons (because they are better than what they are now on e.g. i would rather get 50K on a metro than 28K on a 210).
In the mining industry, there isnt a ladder. These guys dont have little mines to build experience at less pay, with the hope of moving onto bigger mines that pay better.
If the day ever comes when there is no longer GA and turbo props, only major airlines with jets, then people wont be in a hurry to climb the ladder as there wont be one to climb. I dont think this day will ever come in aus as we dont have the population to support it. If it ever did hyperthetically happen, it would be a sad day as GA is where I have had the most fun!
Lemel
Lemel I did work in the mining industry whilst I paid for my flying training.
I started as a "rig pig", and the mining game is just like the Aviation game. You do work on little rigs before they trust you with big rigs,they do send you overseas to be train on them as they are manufactured overseas. They realise your worth cos if you ph@k up the only rig in the southern hemisphere you will cost a lot of people a lot of money.........same as the aviation industry. Only difference I was never asked to pay for a cent in fact not even for food or grog or even phone calls,in fact I was provided with a company house and the company established an account at the supermarket..........all this 2 and a half hours from ML.
My point being that aviation is not the sacred cow many would try and say it is, we shouldn't have to pay for our training. Why don't we get HECS allowance etc etc. It will not change unless we all support each other(highly unlikely) or the demand dictates a change of motivation from our employers.
And yes I did wonder for quite a few years why I made the change to aviation considering the great T&C's I received elsewhere.................same answer as all of us..........I love flying.
I started as a "rig pig", and the mining game is just like the Aviation game. You do work on little rigs before they trust you with big rigs,they do send you overseas to be train on them as they are manufactured overseas. They realise your worth cos if you ph@k up the only rig in the southern hemisphere you will cost a lot of people a lot of money.........same as the aviation industry. Only difference I was never asked to pay for a cent in fact not even for food or grog or even phone calls,in fact I was provided with a company house and the company established an account at the supermarket..........all this 2 and a half hours from ML.
My point being that aviation is not the sacred cow many would try and say it is, we shouldn't have to pay for our training. Why don't we get HECS allowance etc etc. It will not change unless we all support each other(highly unlikely) or the demand dictates a change of motivation from our employers.
And yes I did wonder for quite a few years why I made the change to aviation considering the great T&C's I received elsewhere.................same answer as all of us..........I love flying.
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people love flying
Yes. It's like a casino. It's great fun, and some people win lots of money. And lots get sucked in and go home with empty pockets.
Flying is like that, and it is surprising how many people spend lots of time and money without first checking out the job situation. And the airline wannabies ended up in GA for years before either getting that job, or quitting flying.
And the airlines loved it. Australia had a large pool of desparate pilots they could pick from, and it cost them nothing.
But it has backfired on some airlines, because they did not maintain a proper recruiting and training plan, and now the situation has changed a bit (it has gone back to what it should be) they are finding it difficult to get the pilots they want (they seem to think only 1% are suitable????)
There is a bit more movement up the ladder, but it seems that despite what some airlines are calling a "shortage of pilots" the gatekeepers are only letting a few pass. More than before, but we see some whose application does not even get a reply. And there is more recruiting than there has been for decades.
In the world of art and music there are lots of wannabies, some starving, and a small group of artists who make squillions.
Aviation is similar.
For those who are starting out and want an airline career, it is smart to make contact with an airline asap. The flying school may tell you "there are plenty of airline jobs out there". But thousands of others will be told the same thing this year.
QUANCHOR Pilots ARE like cats!!!! They are individuals who know what they want, and are difficult to herd. But if you get some fish they will all follow you.
Flying is like that, and it is surprising how many people spend lots of time and money without first checking out the job situation. And the airline wannabies ended up in GA for years before either getting that job, or quitting flying.
And the airlines loved it. Australia had a large pool of desparate pilots they could pick from, and it cost them nothing.
But it has backfired on some airlines, because they did not maintain a proper recruiting and training plan, and now the situation has changed a bit (it has gone back to what it should be) they are finding it difficult to get the pilots they want (they seem to think only 1% are suitable????)
There is a bit more movement up the ladder, but it seems that despite what some airlines are calling a "shortage of pilots" the gatekeepers are only letting a few pass. More than before, but we see some whose application does not even get a reply. And there is more recruiting than there has been for decades.
In the world of art and music there are lots of wannabies, some starving, and a small group of artists who make squillions.
Aviation is similar.
For those who are starting out and want an airline career, it is smart to make contact with an airline asap. The flying school may tell you "there are plenty of airline jobs out there". But thousands of others will be told the same thing this year.
QUANCHOR Pilots ARE like cats!!!! They are individuals who know what they want, and are difficult to herd. But if you get some fish they will all follow you.
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getting pilots to come together, agree on an issue, develop a plan, execute the plan and then stick together to see it thru is, (sigh) not unlike trying to herd cats
Question is, how deprived must pilots be before they act?
10-4 out
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Quote from Fac6. Great post mate.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=328621
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=328621
Pilots and their salaries
A Lot has been written recently concerning pilots' salaries and comparing our job with others.
This was sent to me a while ago, I know it has done the rounds BUT to all those who think we are overpaid moaners please read below....
DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS!
How many boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?
How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?
How many buses cost $250 million dollars?
How many doctors spend half the month away from their families?
Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?
How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?
How many Lab technicians have to retire because their eyesight isn’t perfect?
When your wife is watching TV and the program is interrupted by a news flash of an aircraft accident, does she momentarily freeze in fear for what she might hear?
There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.
THE PRICE
I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo hold
I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick
I pay the price when loaders forget to set the locks
I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump not quite correctly and the aircraft explodes
I pay the price when Mother Nature decides to shift the winds and turn me over on my belly
I pay the price when my family splits because I am away so much
I pay the price when the technology goes wrong
YOU SPEAK OF THE COST
Ask the CEO of Value and the cost of a DC-9 buried in the Everglades..
The Cost …Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at Steward and Newark...
The Cost ...Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway at Guam..
The Cost ...Ask Mandarin airlines the cost of a typhoon turning an MD11 upside down when it landed into Hong Kong
The Cost ...Ask Pan Am the cost when a bomb blew up a 747 over Lockerbie
The Cost ...Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami Street
The Cost ...Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Columbian mountain...
The Cost ...And if not for their Cool, Calm, Professionalism, what could have been the cost of a Cathay Pacific 747 with one engine alight plunging into the harbour. How much were they worth to you that night?
The Cost …What would have been the cost when the British Airways 747 full of passengers lost ALL 4 engines in volcanic ash over Indonesia. The chances of relighting those engines was ZERO yet the pilots got a few going and saved everyone – What were they worth to you that day? Still Glorified overpaid Bus Drivers?
WHEN YOU TRY TO INTIMIDATE ME, REMEMBER
It was I who sits alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I am catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you slept peacefully in your bed
It was I who, one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Saturday night football drinking your beer and wine
It was I who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree and went to church in 1989
It was I who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN
It was I who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours
It was I who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you and your children
It was I who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers in your garden blossom
It was I who buried a friend
It is I who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his Dad, so that you may play with your grandchild
Sir, please don 't try to intimidate me I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset that has experienced and accomplished things few others dare to try. Realise this and there are few obstacles we can't overcome.
A Lot has been written recently concerning pilots' salaries and comparing our job with others.
This was sent to me a while ago, I know it has done the rounds BUT to all those who think we are overpaid moaners please read below....
DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS!
How many boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?
How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?
How many buses cost $250 million dollars?
How many doctors spend half the month away from their families?
Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?
How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?
How many Lab technicians have to retire because their eyesight isn’t perfect?
When your wife is watching TV and the program is interrupted by a news flash of an aircraft accident, does she momentarily freeze in fear for what she might hear?
There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.
THE PRICE
I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo hold
I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick
I pay the price when loaders forget to set the locks
I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump not quite correctly and the aircraft explodes
I pay the price when Mother Nature decides to shift the winds and turn me over on my belly
I pay the price when my family splits because I am away so much
I pay the price when the technology goes wrong
YOU SPEAK OF THE COST
Ask the CEO of Value and the cost of a DC-9 buried in the Everglades..
The Cost …Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at Steward and Newark...
The Cost ...Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway at Guam..
The Cost ...Ask Mandarin airlines the cost of a typhoon turning an MD11 upside down when it landed into Hong Kong
The Cost ...Ask Pan Am the cost when a bomb blew up a 747 over Lockerbie
The Cost ...Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami Street
The Cost ...Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Columbian mountain...
The Cost ...And if not for their Cool, Calm, Professionalism, what could have been the cost of a Cathay Pacific 747 with one engine alight plunging into the harbour. How much were they worth to you that night?
The Cost …What would have been the cost when the British Airways 747 full of passengers lost ALL 4 engines in volcanic ash over Indonesia. The chances of relighting those engines was ZERO yet the pilots got a few going and saved everyone – What were they worth to you that day? Still Glorified overpaid Bus Drivers?
WHEN YOU TRY TO INTIMIDATE ME, REMEMBER
It was I who sits alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I am catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you slept peacefully in your bed
It was I who, one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Saturday night football drinking your beer and wine
It was I who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree and went to church in 1989
It was I who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN
It was I who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours
It was I who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you and your children
It was I who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers in your garden blossom
It was I who buried a friend
It is I who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his Dad, so that you may play with your grandchild
Sir, please don 't try to intimidate me I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset that has experienced and accomplished things few others dare to try. Realise this and there are few obstacles we can't overcome.
