Airprox above Launceston
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Airprox above Launceston
Virgin and Jetstar got TOO close last night (around 10pm). Tower closed, as per normal closing time. No TCAS, but nose to nose and not much lateral!
First in o/shoot and second much too close. First then dosen't follow o/shoot as published. Second then o/shoots and swish/swish!
Why is it so silent out there?
First in o/shoot and second much too close. First then dosen't follow o/shoot as published. Second then o/shoots and swish/swish!
Why is it so silent out there?
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Was pax onboard DJ 610 last night, very low cloud base (a little fog also) and we did a missed approach. First approach was at just after 10pm, tower closed and runway lights were not able to be adjusted. Y have stage lighting?
Not sure about how close we were at other times, but did see Jetstar above us heading back to Nile as we came back in our 2nd attempt on 32L and seemed to be plenty of separation. We were nearly at the gate when Jet* landed behind us.
Why virgin continue to bring 610 in at 10pm in winter is amazing. last winter we had numerous flights having trouble getting in after 10pm, had it been 9pm as is during summer months would have less problems and an open tower to adjust runway lights to suit the conditions.
Not sure about how close we were at other times, but did see Jetstar above us heading back to Nile as we came back in our 2nd attempt on 32L and seemed to be plenty of separation. We were nearly at the gate when Jet* landed behind us.
Why virgin continue to bring 610 in at 10pm in winter is amazing. last winter we had numerous flights having trouble getting in after 10pm, had it been 9pm as is during summer months would have less problems and an open tower to adjust runway lights to suit the conditions.
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There was lots of talk about the 'horrible' replays at work today. I'm not saying anything more, but swish/swish may not be too far from the truth if what I heard has legs.
If they were operating OCTA - then everyone can look at the radar tapes until their eyes go square, there is no standard with which to separate the two aircraft other than dont hit each other.
The rules that apply when the tower is open are not valid when its closed.
If there was no TCAS event then they were not all that close.
The rules that apply when the tower is open are not valid when its closed.
If there was no TCAS event then they were not all that close.
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If they were operating OCTA - then everyone can look at the radar tapes until their eyes go square, there is no standard with which to separate the two aircraft other than dont hit each other.
Morning all (as Bill Lawrie would say)
It's been a while since i was in LST. Would be interested to know what the radar coverage low level i.e cct area is like in LST these days. Would the "radar tapes" show anything.
Fly safe and play hard.
Regards to all.
Hoss 58
It's been a while since i was in LST. Would be interested to know what the radar coverage low level i.e cct area is like in LST these days. Would the "radar tapes" show anything.
Fly safe and play hard.
Regards to all.
Hoss 58
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I wouldn't want to comment one way or the other about the rumours that are going around at work, ATC, where 'video' tapes and audio have been at least played, but to speculate about how close they were or weren't in this forum is pretty reckless.
Fact there was an event, who did what and when will be discovered when investigated properly.
Swish/Swish is probably a bit steep if there was no RA, but lateral segregation of a lmited nature can be enough for TCAS not to "go off"; that doesn't mean it was or wasn't a safe situation; depending on the conditions at the time. But as an ATC, we use "swish/swish" to often describe an event where there was less than an ATC separation standard; this doesn't necessarily mean "too close"; but it may.
Really? Perhaps action was taken milli-seconds before the TCAS blurted? We will never know until it's investigated.
Hoss, there is a radar head on the aerodrome, so I'd guess if it was working, pretty damn good coverage.
Fact there was an event, who did what and when will be discovered when investigated properly.
Swish/Swish is probably a bit steep if there was no RA, but lateral segregation of a lmited nature can be enough for TCAS not to "go off"; that doesn't mean it was or wasn't a safe situation; depending on the conditions at the time. But as an ATC, we use "swish/swish" to often describe an event where there was less than an ATC separation standard; this doesn't necessarily mean "too close"; but it may.
If there was no TCAS event then they were not all that close.
Hoss, there is a radar head on the aerodrome, so I'd guess if it was working, pretty damn good coverage.
Ben Sandilands' take on it (crikey.com.au)
Virgin and Jetstar go head to head over Launceston
In pilot parlance passenger flights by Virgin Blue and Jetstar played "swish swish" over Launceston Airport last Thursday night, just after the control tower closed at 10pm. However, apart from some patchy references to the incident on the Pprune (professional pilot rumour network) message board, there is nothing but silence so far from the airlines or the authorities. This is odd. Usually false rumours are quickly buried, and Pprune runs enough of them to keep the legal departments of news media organisations in a state of high anxiety all year.
These are the bare bones of the incident. Virgin Blue flight DJ610 from Melbourne, a 737 with 144 seats, decided to go around for a second landing attempt because fog was starting to form over the runway at Launceston immediately after the control tower clocked off. A similar decision was made by a Jetstar A320 configured with 180 passenger seats which was also approaching the airport some eight kilometres or more behind the Virgin Blue flight. However as Jetstar climbed away it passed Virgin Blue travelling in the opposite direction, apparently not quite head on, but not quite in a "usual" manner either.
Was this a near miss? Or was it just a non-serious and inadvertent degradation of the separation standards required for air traffic around an airport that for some reason shuts down tower supervision in the minutes before as many as 324 passengers could be about to land? It is possible that there is nothing in the incident that requires an investigation by the Australian Safety Transport Bureau because each jet’s pilots were fully aware of the situation. Maybe it doesn’t matter because low cost flying, profit hungry airports and AirServices Australia are all hairy chested professionals who don’t need sissy stuff like terminal control? Or maybe it needs a hard look. Some answers either way would be welcome. Oh no, not welcome. For anyone who wants to read a load of tripe, Google up the Miller Report that arose from the squalid Queensland coronial inquest into the black deaths in the Transair crash at Lockhart River in 2005.
The Miller Report is all about trying to manage disclosures of dangerous practices in aviation by locking down the sort of criticism the independent investigator, the ATSB, made of the non-regulating safety regulator CASA presumably on the basis that smothering contrary voices might stop bad airline practices turning into piles of body bags. It won’t work.
In pilot parlance passenger flights by Virgin Blue and Jetstar played "swish swish" over Launceston Airport last Thursday night, just after the control tower closed at 10pm. However, apart from some patchy references to the incident on the Pprune (professional pilot rumour network) message board, there is nothing but silence so far from the airlines or the authorities. This is odd. Usually false rumours are quickly buried, and Pprune runs enough of them to keep the legal departments of news media organisations in a state of high anxiety all year.
These are the bare bones of the incident. Virgin Blue flight DJ610 from Melbourne, a 737 with 144 seats, decided to go around for a second landing attempt because fog was starting to form over the runway at Launceston immediately after the control tower clocked off. A similar decision was made by a Jetstar A320 configured with 180 passenger seats which was also approaching the airport some eight kilometres or more behind the Virgin Blue flight. However as Jetstar climbed away it passed Virgin Blue travelling in the opposite direction, apparently not quite head on, but not quite in a "usual" manner either.
Was this a near miss? Or was it just a non-serious and inadvertent degradation of the separation standards required for air traffic around an airport that for some reason shuts down tower supervision in the minutes before as many as 324 passengers could be about to land? It is possible that there is nothing in the incident that requires an investigation by the Australian Safety Transport Bureau because each jet’s pilots were fully aware of the situation. Maybe it doesn’t matter because low cost flying, profit hungry airports and AirServices Australia are all hairy chested professionals who don’t need sissy stuff like terminal control? Or maybe it needs a hard look. Some answers either way would be welcome. Oh no, not welcome. For anyone who wants to read a load of tripe, Google up the Miller Report that arose from the squalid Queensland coronial inquest into the black deaths in the Transair crash at Lockhart River in 2005.
The Miller Report is all about trying to manage disclosures of dangerous practices in aviation by locking down the sort of criticism the independent investigator, the ATSB, made of the non-regulating safety regulator CASA presumably on the basis that smothering contrary voices might stop bad airline practices turning into piles of body bags. It won’t work.
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Virgin Blue flight DJ610 from Melbourne, a 737 with 144 seats
I'd like to know where we were supposed to have been to close. After our first missed approach we continued north for a fair distance before turning back and tracked towards Nile. Only saw the A320 once and it was certainly not head on, it was higher and to one side of us ???????