Who wants a Jetstar Command??
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
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Squid , any further info on this change to recruitment at Jetstar.Ive got a interview coming up this month and any further insight would be great. By the way any one know where they are short of F O 's at the moment and whether current recruitment is just for the A320. cheers
SO....
...How do all the enthusiastic & almost-ready Jetstar F/Os, who were led to believe they'd have a command really quickly, feel about their managers (& prospects) now that DECs will stall their career path indefinitely despite the 787 delays which could reasonably have been expected to ensure that all current F/Os will have enough type experience for command when the next big expansion comes. 
And what of the 'interoperabilities' planned for Pacific Airlines (ie Jetstar Vietnam) as GD has been quoted in today's newspapers; perhaps more flying to the lowest bidders will be threatened again by the people who've loved the JPC's compliance so much. Or perhaps "your command slot is based in Ho Chi Minh if you want it." And I can hear the next management step already: "If those pilots all work to the same rules then why shouldn't they fly even more Jetstar-branded sectors within & through Oz?"
I'm sure I've heard that many Jetstar F/Os have updated their CX/QF/EK hold-file resumes. Anyone confirm? Anyway, all the best for the tough decisions ahead folks...
And what of the 'interoperabilities' planned for Pacific Airlines (ie Jetstar Vietnam) as GD has been quoted in today's newspapers; perhaps more flying to the lowest bidders will be threatened again by the people who've loved the JPC's compliance so much. Or perhaps "your command slot is based in Ho Chi Minh if you want it." And I can hear the next management step already: "If those pilots all work to the same rules then why shouldn't they fly even more Jetstar-branded sectors within & through Oz?"
I'm sure I've heard that many Jetstar F/Os have updated their CX/QF/EK hold-file resumes. Anyone confirm? Anyway, all the best for the tough decisions ahead folks...
Join Date: Apr 2008
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JB
The JQ F/O's will not have updated their resumes' nor will they be looking at leaving.
The believe all the JPC tell them - after all you cant trust anyone else can you ?
Hope you all enjoy flying with a guy who has taken your command and is here on a 457 visa.....
At some point someone from within your group has to stand up and say "this is not impulse airlines anymore and we are a worthwhile commodity to an airline" and negotiate accordingly.
The JQ F/O's will not have updated their resumes' nor will they be looking at leaving.
The believe all the JPC tell them - after all you cant trust anyone else can you ?
Hope you all enjoy flying with a guy who has taken your command and is here on a 457 visa.....
At some point someone from within your group has to stand up and say "this is not impulse airlines anymore and we are a worthwhile commodity to an airline" and negotiate accordingly.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Just thinking.......
If 457 visas are being used to recruit and fill positions when there are other qualified and willing people to fill these position.....
...... - instead of just taking it in the preverbal - if you are qualified and willing as some people have expressed - write to the ministers concerned - aviation and immigration. Better still - find a sympathetic minister who will raise this at question time in federal parliament......
But just thinking......
If 457 visas are being used to recruit and fill positions when there are other qualified and willing people to fill these position.....
...... - instead of just taking it in the preverbal - if you are qualified and willing as some people have expressed - write to the ministers concerned - aviation and immigration. Better still - find a sympathetic minister who will raise this at question time in federal parliament......
But just thinking......
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
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Oh dear, someone has ruffled the feathers in the sky gods nests. Settle down little ones.
Who said all the 457 people were captains anyway? And what if JQ have managed a wonderful growth rate that sees them running out of Captains? Not everyone has to grow as slowly as the legacy carriers do they? Or is that a law? Sorry...silly question.
And if the proposed (AIPA clones) response is for JQ F/Os go offshore to get a better future how can you think it right that Australia only send pilots OS, never receive them? Isn't that hypocrisy? Sorry....silly question.
This stuff makes me feel ill. Post something positive about the world or go play on daddy's yacht at on the harbour. When Australia's carriers aren't growing fast, thats the time to whinge, not now.
Who said all the 457 people were captains anyway? And what if JQ have managed a wonderful growth rate that sees them running out of Captains? Not everyone has to grow as slowly as the legacy carriers do they? Or is that a law? Sorry...silly question.
And if the proposed (AIPA clones) response is for JQ F/Os go offshore to get a better future how can you think it right that Australia only send pilots OS, never receive them? Isn't that hypocrisy? Sorry....silly question.
This stuff makes me feel ill. Post something positive about the world or go play on daddy's yacht at on the harbour. When Australia's carriers aren't growing fast, thats the time to whinge, not now.
Australian jobs for Australians first.
And don't tell me there aren't any qualified Australian Pilots to do the work.
There is a shortage of Qualified Australian Pilot's willing to work for low pay.
You offer us the money and we'll come home to fly your shiny new jets.
Show us the money. ( and that goes for V Australia too )
And don't tell me there aren't any qualified Australian Pilots to do the work.
There is a shortage of Qualified Australian Pilot's willing to work for low pay.
You offer us the money and we'll come home to fly your shiny new jets.
Show us the money. ( and that goes for V Australia too )
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Genex.
I have nothing to do with AIPA or QF.
I have gone back and read a few of your posts - you are and angry angry man when it comes to the perception that someone, somewhere might have been lucky enough to get a better job then flying gerry's beech 1900.
Interesting that you would allow such emotions to influence your career decisions.
Nevertheless if the JQ pilot body is happy with 457 pilots, then thats its choice.
Just out of interest - Can you tell me where your own personal line in the sand is ?
Specifically, is there a point where you say 'enough is enough'. ?
Im curious......
I have nothing to do with AIPA or QF.
I have gone back and read a few of your posts - you are and angry angry man when it comes to the perception that someone, somewhere might have been lucky enough to get a better job then flying gerry's beech 1900.
Interesting that you would allow such emotions to influence your career decisions.
Nevertheless if the JQ pilot body is happy with 457 pilots, then thats its choice.
Just out of interest - Can you tell me where your own personal line in the sand is ?
Specifically, is there a point where you say 'enough is enough'. ?
Im curious......
Join Date: Jul 2006
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oz jobs
Getting a job in Australia ain't that easy no matter how experienced you are. You still have to know a good amount of people before you get a look in to. Like band of brothers and looking after mates. Unfortunately aviation in Oz hasn't changed that much like the rest of the world...where's the "fair go"?...it's a jealously guarded industry and if you're not one of the "mates" depending on which side of '89 you're you'd be wasting your time. Two factions in Oz, Pre-'89 and Post-'89. These two factions weigh more than your impeccable resume. That's a fact.
Nunc est bibendum
genex, you must have a farm with an excess of straw considering that you keep building these ridiculous straw men that you then take great delight in tearing down. The shame is that you're deluding yourself and PPRUNE readers- such as mohikan- are cottoning on to it.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Keg you're probably right. I do go over the top sometimes....I apologize.
However a couple of points are valid whether I make them or not. Over the decades, and not just since '89, Australian pilots have been heading OS for jobs. I did it, for years, you probably know pilots who've done it. Many young Australian pilots now start their jet careers OS. I just feel uncomfortable knowing that and then seeing the "Australian jobs for Australian pilots" stuff.
I don't think that there's going to be a flood of 457 DECs. There may be some but unless JQ are very foolish, there wouldn't be one qualified F/O missing out on a command because it was taken by a 457 driver. That way would lie instant lawsuits and ministerial ntervention for sure.
However a couple of points are valid whether I make them or not. Over the decades, and not just since '89, Australian pilots have been heading OS for jobs. I did it, for years, you probably know pilots who've done it. Many young Australian pilots now start their jet careers OS. I just feel uncomfortable knowing that and then seeing the "Australian jobs for Australian pilots" stuff.
I don't think that there's going to be a flood of 457 DECs. There may be some but unless JQ are very foolish, there wouldn't be one qualified F/O missing out on a command because it was taken by a 457 driver. That way would lie instant lawsuits and ministerial ntervention for sure.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I don't think that those outside of Jetstar realise just how many Commands have come up in the past 12 months . A figure off the top is about 80. As a lot of the new recruits in the past 2 years have been blokes with zero jet time, then the positions have to be filled by people with experience. The rights and wrongs of bringing people in from outside as DEC can and will be argued will avtur gets turned into thrust.
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As a current employee who occupies a RHS, myself and many others have no desire to gain a command with this airline.
When the time and opportunity presents itself which will hopefully be sooner rather than later, we will move on and leave the blue shirts and visa acheivers to it.
As I said, I am not alone, better to move on than become one of the bitter and twisted.
Jetstar - had the potential to do great things and yet .........................
When the time and opportunity presents itself which will hopefully be sooner rather than later, we will move on and leave the blue shirts and visa acheivers to it.
As I said, I am not alone, better to move on than become one of the bitter and twisted.
Jetstar - had the potential to do great things and yet .........................
Nunc est bibendum
genex. Fair enough. I tend to agree that we won't see many/any 457 visas. The reality is that these were a bogey man and I suspect their use will be quite limited.
I do disagree on a point about expat pilots. Traditionally we have sent our guys o/s to airlines that had NO home grown ability to develop their own pilots. Emirates, CX, Qatar, Royal Brunei, etc have no GA industry in their location to support the development of their crew. Therefore they had no experienced pilots to draw upon and thus crew for these carriers came from all nations. This is a very different thing to Australia where we still have a number of quite experienced aircrew in GA- and continue to train them- to draw upon before considering foreign crew. I'm not adverse to foreign pilots but using foreigners to keep pressure on lower pay and conditions of local people isn't right. If 457 visas are used then there certainly are F/Os missing out on upgrades....all members of the QF group too! See my next point for more on that.
permFO. There are at least eight hundred pilots in Australia with multiple thousands of hours on heavy metal who could immediately upgrade to command if only J* were prepared to pay more- and QF prepared to release them. That would solve some of the 'experience' issues that some seem so concerned about- concerned enough to be sending recruiters to foreign shores to find suitably qualified personnel. The truly sad thing is that many of us are only too well aware of the opportunities being offered to people who aren't even members of the QF group- or those that have become members of the group within the last couple of years- whilst those with many years service behind them are ignored and marginalised. Ironic that Joyce bangs on about 'leveraging the considerable experience of Qantas' to expand J* into Singapore and Viet Nam whilst at the same time excluding from his mind the possibility that mainline pilots make up a very significant part of that 'considerable experience' that he continually bangs on about.
The reality is that were J* F/O slots opened up around the QF Group in the immediate aftermath of J* kicking off- and the same for subsequent command slots once all the Impulse F/Os had their opportunity for upgrade to command- then we wouldn't be talking about F/Os having too little experience for upgrade. They would have had five or six years online as S/Os and F/Os by now. It may have also minimised those like TCAS Shenanigans who are only passing through.
I do disagree on a point about expat pilots. Traditionally we have sent our guys o/s to airlines that had NO home grown ability to develop their own pilots. Emirates, CX, Qatar, Royal Brunei, etc have no GA industry in their location to support the development of their crew. Therefore they had no experienced pilots to draw upon and thus crew for these carriers came from all nations. This is a very different thing to Australia where we still have a number of quite experienced aircrew in GA- and continue to train them- to draw upon before considering foreign crew. I'm not adverse to foreign pilots but using foreigners to keep pressure on lower pay and conditions of local people isn't right. If 457 visas are used then there certainly are F/Os missing out on upgrades....all members of the QF group too! See my next point for more on that.
permFO. There are at least eight hundred pilots in Australia with multiple thousands of hours on heavy metal who could immediately upgrade to command if only J* were prepared to pay more- and QF prepared to release them. That would solve some of the 'experience' issues that some seem so concerned about- concerned enough to be sending recruiters to foreign shores to find suitably qualified personnel. The truly sad thing is that many of us are only too well aware of the opportunities being offered to people who aren't even members of the QF group- or those that have become members of the group within the last couple of years- whilst those with many years service behind them are ignored and marginalised. Ironic that Joyce bangs on about 'leveraging the considerable experience of Qantas' to expand J* into Singapore and Viet Nam whilst at the same time excluding from his mind the possibility that mainline pilots make up a very significant part of that 'considerable experience' that he continually bangs on about.
The reality is that were J* F/O slots opened up around the QF Group in the immediate aftermath of J* kicking off- and the same for subsequent command slots once all the Impulse F/Os had their opportunity for upgrade to command- then we wouldn't be talking about F/Os having too little experience for upgrade. They would have had five or six years online as S/Os and F/Os by now. It may have also minimised those like TCAS Shenanigans who are only passing through.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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TCAS is not alone in his comments re dissatisfaction with the "system" operating within Jetstar. Others in the past have made similar comments on Prune.
But what exactly are these complaints? I'm not aware of anyone expanding on them!
But what exactly are these complaints? I'm not aware of anyone expanding on them!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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TCAS
Have to ask the question as confused (more so than usual, sadly
)
If you are "happy" to not gain a command in pornstar would mean one of two things:
1. using porn to gain jet time and look at Emirates/Cathay etc as a DEC F/O with the time contraints to command that will apply; or
2. taking your "extensive" non-command time overseas and trying to convince/con someone you are worthy of a command.
Happy to be corrected but command time still king, copilot time relative tits on a bull.
If you've found a third plan, a "cunning plan " as Baldrick would have described it, I'm sure many would like to hear should you wish to be heard.
Asking from ignorance
regards
galdian
Have to ask the question as confused (more so than usual, sadly
)If you are "happy" to not gain a command in pornstar would mean one of two things:
1. using porn to gain jet time and look at Emirates/Cathay etc as a DEC F/O with the time contraints to command that will apply; or
2. taking your "extensive" non-command time overseas and trying to convince/con someone you are worthy of a command.
Happy to be corrected but command time still king, copilot time relative tits on a bull.
If you've found a third plan, a "cunning plan " as Baldrick would have described it, I'm sure many would like to hear should you wish to be heard.
Asking from ignorance
regards
galdian
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Keg- If its about the money then QF is the place to be as you will get more money as a 744 F/O than you will as a Jetstar Captain. All QF pilot's at the time of the MOU were eligible to go to Jetstar and all who did so are now Captains. I'm certain that Jetstar would have taken as many QF pilots as it could have because of their experience, but were not permitted to take LOA by mainline HR, as you yourself said. That would seem to have limited some of Jetstar's options for obtaining experienced crew.
In this modern world of aviation politics there is idealism or pragmatism and for my own reasons I chose pragmatism to attain the goal of a LHS. Idealism would have seen me retiring as a permanent F/O.
In this modern world of aviation politics there is idealism or pragmatism and for my own reasons I chose pragmatism to attain the goal of a LHS. Idealism would have seen me retiring as a permanent F/O.
All QF pilot's at the time of the MOU were eligible to go to Jetstar and all who did so are now Captains.
Cookie springs to mind
I'm certain that Jetstar would have taken as many QF pilots as it could have because of their experience
