QF returns to Argentina.
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I remember on at least one occassion the spin doctors putting out a media blurb about a new flight only to be told by ops that during certain times of the year it was not possible with existing aircraft.
But I guess they could always leave some cargo behind if they need to keep the weight down.
But I guess they could always leave some cargo behind if they need to keep the weight down.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I did a number of the AKL-EZE-AKL services when I was an S/O. Take-off out of EZE in summer was significantly performance-limited. Cannot remember the numbers exactly, but around 30 degrees and 370 tonnes rings a bell? The runways just need to be a bit longer to be comfortable (don't know if they've ever been lengthened; I'd doubt it). I remember more than once watching a rotation as the reds loomed up! So whether using RR's or ER's I expect it'll still be a bit limiting in Argentinian summer.
The other interesting aspect is it'll be a LONG way south. Look at the above great circle link. When we did SYD-AKL-EZE it kept you further north. The direct service is definitely going to be scenic. Don't anyone start mentioning polar survival suits, ok?!
It's good stuff. Back to a great destination.
The other interesting aspect is it'll be a LONG way south. Look at the above great circle link. When we did SYD-AKL-EZE it kept you further north. The direct service is definitely going to be scenic. Don't anyone start mentioning polar survival suits, ok?!
It's good stuff. Back to a great destination.
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I am guessing that with 380 doing Mel-Lax-Mel as first destination, that will leave 2 744ERs available. Given the elevation of EZE, I would suspect that these a/c would be able to get off at a much greater weight. My understanding though westbound is that we are still limited to 65 south.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
A l-o-n-g way south
A quick Google Earth looks like a Great Circle route from Sydney to Buenos Aires would go as far south as a little over 70 degrees! 
So McMurdo will be the designated diversion??
So McMurdo will be the designated diversion??
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My understanding is that we are limited to 65 south for a few reasons (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong)
1. Fuel freezing: the further south we go the faster the fuel freezes, thus reducing the effectiveness of going so far south
2. Limited alternate airports: the further south we go, the more contingency fuel it costs, not to mention how far an alternate airport is (did a flight where Melb was still the alternate after 4 hours of flying)
3. Ease of flight planning: makes it easier for the computer to calculate
4. Unconfirmed: but heard this is as far as a P3 can go to come and look for you?!
5. Anything further than 65 you are also over pack ice. Wonder if you are required to carry polar suits?
1. Fuel freezing: the further south we go the faster the fuel freezes, thus reducing the effectiveness of going so far south
2. Limited alternate airports: the further south we go, the more contingency fuel it costs, not to mention how far an alternate airport is (did a flight where Melb was still the alternate after 4 hours of flying)
3. Ease of flight planning: makes it easier for the computer to calculate
4. Unconfirmed: but heard this is as far as a P3 can go to come and look for you?!
5. Anything further than 65 you are also over pack ice. Wonder if you are required to carry polar suits?
Last edited by SkyScanner; 16th Mar 2008 at 02:35.
SkyScanner
I’ve operated quite a few polar flights from Hong Kong to New York (up to 16.5 hours and within 30nm of the North Pole) and I can assure you most of your points are incorrect.
1. Generally Jet A1 isn’t a problem with a standard freezing point of -47ºC. Jet A on the other hand can be with a standard freezing point of only -40ºC. In this case a sample of fuel is taken and an actual freezing point is determined and given to us by the ground engineer. In most cases I have found the freezing point to be considerably lower than Jet A1. Sometimes as low as -57ºC. It is worth pointing out that the actual outside temperate in Polar Regions isn’t much colder than elsewhere, i.e. about -60ºC. It is the length of time you spend there that counts.
2. This is a valid issue and with experience on the route will be refined.
3. Computer flight planning is just as capable flight planning in Polar Regions as it is anywhere else.
4. This should have no bearing on where you flight plan.
5. In our operation some polar gear is provided for the flight crew to do external inspections of the aircraft if we have diverted to an airfield in Northern Russia, Alaska, Canada or Greenland. Nothing is provided if we have to make an off field ditching except standard survival gear. The reality is such a ditching would probably be unsurvivable anyway.
I’ve operated quite a few polar flights from Hong Kong to New York (up to 16.5 hours and within 30nm of the North Pole) and I can assure you most of your points are incorrect.
1. Fuel freezing: the further south we go the faster the fuel freezes, thus reducing the effectiveness of going so far south
2. Limited alternate airports: the further south we go, the more contingency fuel it costs, not to mention how far an alternate airport is (did a flight where Melb was still the alternate after 4 hours of flying
3. Ease of flight planning: makes it easier for the computer to calculate
4. Unconfirmed: but heard this is as far as a P3 can go to come and look for you?!
5. Anything further than 65 you are also over pack ice. Wonder if you are required to carry polar suits?
SYD - JNB is limited to 65 degrees south because of MEA/oxygen limitations. In event of a depressurisation over the Antarctic land mass (elevated plateau) there would be issues with sufficient oxygen/fuel to reach alternates such as Perth, St Denis, Mauritius, so by keeping the track north of the land mass, these problems don't exist.
The track from SYD to EZE passes near a section of Antarctica which generally isn't as elevated so the same limitation may not be applied - we'll see when all the necessary planning is released to line pilots.
The track from SYD to EZE passes near a section of Antarctica which generally isn't as elevated so the same limitation may not be applied - we'll see when all the necessary planning is released to line pilots.
