Rumour: ANZ crew refuses to fly through TIBA

[an3_bolt]

I know there are quite a few aircraft going back and forth across the Tasman at any one time, but 99% of them are being driven by experienced, competent professionals. So with TCAS fitted and operating why would it not be safe to fly quadrantally, using the correct TIBA procedures across the Tasman? I mean you could even offset your track by 5 miles to the right if you wanted to add another layer of safety!

Seems like overkill to me, unless it's company mandated!

So - just a couple of questions:

1. Does that mean you are relying on a serviceable TCAS for traffic separation and collision avoidance?
2. Have you ever attempted see and avoid at a closing speed of 1000 kts?
3. How do you know that you might be doing the right thing - but is EVERYONE else doing the right thing from asian carriers, middle east carriers to biz jets that fly the pond?
4. Does offsetting necessarily remove the conflict of crossing traffic?
5. What about in emergency situations where aircraft are unable to maintain correct altitude / tracking?
6. What about if an aircraft is non-rvsm / rvsm failure and in TIBA?
7. Are you going to apply RVSM separation in TIBA?
8. What separation standards are you going to apply - and what are you going to do when some turkey is going to fly through you level in close proximity and do it regardless of your protest?
9. Why do you have to accept TIBA procedures when it is a result of lack of staff? Is it acceptable to to do TIBA in this day and age when it is not necessary especially when it is due to the systemic management failures of air traffic services?
10. If 99% know what they are doing - what about the 1% who are trying to kill you?
11. By the way - how many aircraft fly across the pond each day and on how many tracks do they do this?

[Track Coastal]

flyitboy you never cease to amaze me.

Shut your mouth and be thought a fool but open it and remove and all doubt seems very apt for you.

I sincerely hope that as I walk the aerobridge to catch the next one to where ever, you are not at the pointy end.

[Capt Fathom]

flyitboy:

Big joke it is, with all the modern alerting stuff in planes these days I hardly think that a TIBA CRZ sector is any less dangerous than flying at night below LSALT when allowed to, like I said bunch of girls

And the possibility of someone like you being there is good enough reason to avoid it whenever possible.


flyitboy:

We Ozzies do it all the time these days!

Do not use the word We!

[pakeha-boy]

Flown through many TIBA,....But it was part of our SOP....company approved,and always part of the flight plan

The comment about the DC-8 boys getiing a kick out of this brings back memories,because for many years....TIBA was all you had

BelowMDA......your comment about domestic is taken...but what is ANZ.,s policy on international TIBA????.....is it approved,??

for a crew to refuse to fly through a TIBA,would/might/is be based upon circumstances contradicting the SOP,S....because ultimately the crew will be asked to explain their actions..

.......of course this could also be a bu@#sh@t rumour,which I reckon it is

[Roger Standby]

Can anyone answer the question about RVSM levels in TIBA?

[Maggott17]

"2. Have you ever attempted see and avoid at a closing speed of 1000 kts?"

Nope, always see and ENGAGE at whatever closure puts you in the correct aspect for your weapon load.12 o'clock with the right rocket is not insurmountable, but challenging.

Kiwi A4's never carried the right rocket, and were always easy meat when you saw them coming.

[Maggott17]

RVSM goes out the window when all the holes in the cheese don't line up.

747s at one hundred paces is too scarey to allow pilots to handle.

[Howard Hughes]

At five NM, I believe you are considered off the airway, well and truly.

What is the navigation error after a pacific crossing?

The whole premise is to advise those around you using TIBA procedures that you are 'off the airway', I m not advocating offsetting then reporting on the airway.

As I said, international SLOP does not cater for anything like five NM offsets.

Not even for weather avoidance?

If the company SOP's prohibit flight through TIBA then the correct action is to not fly through TIBA, however if you are permitted, there are a number of options available to complete the flight safely! This is evidenced by the number of aircraft in Australia that are now doing this routinely on a daily basis, of course this is not ideal, but that is a whole other thread going on elsewhere in D&G!

[flyitboy]

'Cpt Fathom' & 'track coastal' (although TC is on my ignore list so can only imagine his ugly response) I guess you guys don't live in the real world. TIBA IS happening & will continue to do so accept or get out of the skies!
Whether I'm at the pointy end making decisions whilst you guys might be onboard makes no diff to me but I get great delight in knowing that yr afraid you might be.

Like I said, bunch of girls!


f

[cjam]

Is the TIBA airspace semi permanent or is it just Notam'd day by day as needed?
What airspace are they doing it in?

[virgindriver]

Is the TIBA airspace semi permanent or is it just Notam'd day by day as needed? What airspace are they doing it in?

Notam'd when needed- result of staff shortages. I saw it happen just last Sunday afternoon going into Melbourne. Aircraft departing/arriving into Melbourne and even going Sydney Perth were some of the routes affected.

Pretty 3rd world I think...

I wonder if the airlines get a discount on Nav charges for lack of service. Gotta love the management at AirServices.

[Capt Wally]

We are all very fortunate indeed in this country, TIBA would be the least of our worries compared to the worlds major hassles in aviation of which we expereince little here. It is a disgrace that we have to have TIBA in this country 'cause our skies are virtually empty here compared to the rest of the world.

'Flyitboy' you obviously have a bee in yr bonnet about this subject
although yr statement: "What diff does it make? You have the same humans in airspace that's uncontrolled day in day out as in CTA." does have some obvious meaning but some in here will not see that, that's the part where you seem to thrive on! Still this is a public forum where we all have different opinions.
Keep the good work up ATC, where with you 100 % despite yr obvious hassles with management.



CW

[Howard Hughes]

I operate a system with GPS and three IRUs so the error is quite small - maybe 0.03N. Maybe less.

Then no one can easily work out where you are.

Mr Eclan, you seem to contradict yourself, surely if your navigation equipment is accurate to 0.3NM, then everybody will know exactly where you are to within 0.3NM!

Why would 'the feds' frown upon the concept?

As I eluded to earlier,without actually saying it, it is normal to go a lot further off track for weather avoidance! The three tools ATCers use to separate aircraft are altitude, distance and closing angle, surely pilots should use the same tools when required?

[elaine12345678]

Greataction Shanghai

The beauty of rumours is that they don't have to have any fact attached so they can make for great stories. I like your words. Rumors are rumors. Forget about it.