Open Sky Agreement
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Open Sky Agreement
Anyone heard anything today regarding US agreement? Just noticed Qantas share price down 5% and DJ looking better. The paper did say they could announce something as early as today.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...australialooks like its open skies ahead
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Open Skies ? ? ?
I bet SIA are not included in this agreement.
Perhaps Tiger ?
Keep an eye on the Straights Times for next whinge installment on SIA missing out on Pacific rights and being treated unfairly......
I bet SIA are not included in this agreement.
Perhaps Tiger ?Keep an eye on the Straights Times for next whinge installment on SIA missing out on Pacific rights and being treated unfairly......
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V Australia get the green light
Virgin Blue signs up for open skies to the US
* Scott Rochfort
* SMH February 15, 2008 - 2:53PM
Virgin Blue has been given the all-clear to launch ten weekly flights to North America by November, after Australia and the United States signed an Open Skies Agreement.
The deal will now allow Virgin offshoot V Australia and another Australia or US carrier unrestricted access on the route.
The agreement will remove a cap which restricted airlines from both countries flying four weekly flights in their first year of operation on the route.
"The United States is Australia's third largest aviation market and this agreement removes restrictions on Australian and US airlines starting services and routes between the two countries and beyond to third countries,'' Mr Albanese said in a media release.
Mr Albanese argued the deal will help stimulate the tourism market, which has suffered due the lack of available seats on the capacity constrained route. But the deal will keep Air Canada and Singapore Airlines, who have expressed a desire to fly between Sydney and Los Angeles, off the route. So far, no US carriers have expressed a desire to join United on the route.
"Over time this will lead to greater choice through increased competition and provide significant employment opportunities for Australians in the aviation and tourism industries,'' Mr Albanese said.
Qantas welcomed the decision despite lobbying hard in the past to keep foreign carriers such as Singapore Airlines off the highly lucrative route.
"We welcome the outcome. It brings new opportunities for growth and competition,'' said Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon.
"Importantly, it will assist the further development of Australia's aviation industry, as well as help increase trade and tourism with a major economic partner,'' he said.
It is suspected Qantas supported the Open Skies deal on the hope it will bar Singapore Air's attempts to get on the route for good. The logic being Qantas would prefer to have less experience competitor like V Australia.
The Howard Government barred Singapore Air from the route two years ago to give Virgin Blue time to launch an airline on the US route, arguing it would be good for Australian jobs.
Qantas makes an estimated 20 per cent of its overall profits from the route and is set to increase its domination of the route.
It plans to increase its flights from 48 to 51 a week , meaning it will control 80 per cent of the direct flights.
Qantas deployment of the A380 superjumbo on the US route later this year is set to further aid its ability to offer more seats. United Airlines is presently Qantas's only competitor on flights between Australia and the US with 14 flights a week.
V Australia will initially only have a marginal impact, given it plans to have 10 weekly flights on smaller Boeing 777 jets.
* Scott Rochfort
* SMH February 15, 2008 - 2:53PM
Virgin Blue has been given the all-clear to launch ten weekly flights to North America by November, after Australia and the United States signed an Open Skies Agreement.
The deal will now allow Virgin offshoot V Australia and another Australia or US carrier unrestricted access on the route.
The agreement will remove a cap which restricted airlines from both countries flying four weekly flights in their first year of operation on the route.
"The United States is Australia's third largest aviation market and this agreement removes restrictions on Australian and US airlines starting services and routes between the two countries and beyond to third countries,'' Mr Albanese said in a media release.
Mr Albanese argued the deal will help stimulate the tourism market, which has suffered due the lack of available seats on the capacity constrained route. But the deal will keep Air Canada and Singapore Airlines, who have expressed a desire to fly between Sydney and Los Angeles, off the route. So far, no US carriers have expressed a desire to join United on the route.
"Over time this will lead to greater choice through increased competition and provide significant employment opportunities for Australians in the aviation and tourism industries,'' Mr Albanese said.
Qantas welcomed the decision despite lobbying hard in the past to keep foreign carriers such as Singapore Airlines off the highly lucrative route.
"We welcome the outcome. It brings new opportunities for growth and competition,'' said Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon.
"Importantly, it will assist the further development of Australia's aviation industry, as well as help increase trade and tourism with a major economic partner,'' he said.
It is suspected Qantas supported the Open Skies deal on the hope it will bar Singapore Air's attempts to get on the route for good. The logic being Qantas would prefer to have less experience competitor like V Australia.
The Howard Government barred Singapore Air from the route two years ago to give Virgin Blue time to launch an airline on the US route, arguing it would be good for Australian jobs.
Qantas makes an estimated 20 per cent of its overall profits from the route and is set to increase its domination of the route.
It plans to increase its flights from 48 to 51 a week , meaning it will control 80 per cent of the direct flights.
Qantas deployment of the A380 superjumbo on the US route later this year is set to further aid its ability to offer more seats. United Airlines is presently Qantas's only competitor on flights between Australia and the US with 14 flights a week.
V Australia will initially only have a marginal impact, given it plans to have 10 weekly flights on smaller Boeing 777 jets.
In my opinion there is some uncertainty regarding Virgin Blue. The share price is 40+ % less than what it was 4 years ago. The debt/equity ratio is 113.8%. It suggests the dividend is being funded by debt.
History suggests this is a dangerous strategy.
History suggests this is a dangerous strategy.
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It is well known that the Pacific is the rat's biggest cash cow, as is it for United offering the only non stop services, NZ missing out after 9-11 with the withdrawal of the NZ14/15 service which was well patronised.
The Pacific is the Holy Grail SQ is after, ane they have tried anything they can to get it. One would have to be Clarry the Blind Miner to miss the implant of Tiger to stilt QF growth and profit and make them more vunerable. I await the finger pointing and rhetoric from those involved with the pussy but look at their involvement and further agenda in the collapse of Ansett.
I did the exercise today for a corporate client. The nett remit QF fare SYD MCO return is $13680.00 including addons with United coming in around $1000.00 cheaper. A Oneworld round world fare fitting the same needs is$11448.00. Charging for convenience. Likewise a Star Alliance Circlepac SYD into MCO and back via BKK is $8517.00 all up - a total shedload less than the straight transpac.
This does open the floodgates for US carriers to tempt their hands, but I would be amazed if anyone picked up the ball as there are few apart from NW operating suitable equipment. SQ is nicely locked out by the "national carrier" clause which must make the Lion a little gruff.
This will make for interesting sport, as there would be precious little sleep in the Lion City tonight.
Best all
EWL
The Pacific is the Holy Grail SQ is after, ane they have tried anything they can to get it. One would have to be Clarry the Blind Miner to miss the implant of Tiger to stilt QF growth and profit and make them more vunerable. I await the finger pointing and rhetoric from those involved with the pussy but look at their involvement and further agenda in the collapse of Ansett.
I did the exercise today for a corporate client. The nett remit QF fare SYD MCO return is $13680.00 including addons with United coming in around $1000.00 cheaper. A Oneworld round world fare fitting the same needs is$11448.00. Charging for convenience. Likewise a Star Alliance Circlepac SYD into MCO and back via BKK is $8517.00 all up - a total shedload less than the straight transpac.
This does open the floodgates for US carriers to tempt their hands, but I would be amazed if anyone picked up the ball as there are few apart from NW operating suitable equipment. SQ is nicely locked out by the "national carrier" clause which must make the Lion a little gruff.
This will make for interesting sport, as there would be precious little sleep in the Lion City tonight.
Best all
EWL
When you hear the QF CSM do his "welcome aboard" PA on a trans Pacific service, he/she normally goes through a list of airlines that are codesharing on the flight. On average, Qantas flies six B744 flights per day between Oz and the US west coast, but I think that at least 2 aircraft loads would be non QF pax. American Airlines has shown no interest in operating the route themselves because they can buy seats cheaper on Qantas, thus they use their own capacity on other lucrative routes.
Despite what aviation writers say about Qantas operating 80% of the flights, they don't have 80% market share.
Despite what aviation writers say about Qantas operating 80% of the flights, they don't have 80% market share.
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Yes GB, and quite often you can get a better fare on the same aeroplane on the AA side of the aeroplane. That is the case from premium classes back through the economy subsets.
The crazy thing is that with oncarriage beyond SFO/LAX American is usually cheaper unless we are using our premium agent nett fares. If you are heading for Central/South America, the AA codeshare works every time and on one ticket and commissionable all the way.
QF does not handle codeshare yield well as the owner of the metal or the parasite.
Best regards
EWL
The crazy thing is that with oncarriage beyond SFO/LAX American is usually cheaper unless we are using our premium agent nett fares. If you are heading for Central/South America, the AA codeshare works every time and on one ticket and commissionable all the way.
QF does not handle codeshare yield well as the owner of the metal or the parasite.
Best regards
EWL
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So it looks like we are stuck with disinterested cabin crew and low class service with QF or unbelieveably fat Ar-es and US service (read low class)as an alternative.
Good show Geoff you have maintained the status quo.
Good show Geoff you have maintained the status quo.
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Be Happy
The A 380 will be 80% crewed by brand new QCCA FAs with a fantastic attitude.
The agreement opens up a whole lot of opportunities for Jet*.
This will probably keep everyone off the sector.
Were US carriers given the right to oncarriage(to Oz) out of Tokyo?
The agreement opens up a whole lot of opportunities for Jet*.
This will probably keep everyone off the sector.
Were US carriers given the right to oncarriage(to Oz) out of Tokyo?
Pan Am operated SYD-HKG-TYO during their glory days. In later years United
who purchased the ex Pan AM Pacific network applied to Aust to link SYD-TYO but were denied after QF rejected the idea.
who purchased the ex Pan AM Pacific network applied to Aust to link SYD-TYO but were denied after QF rejected the idea.
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Originally Posted by Thylacine
V Australia will initially only have a marginal impact, given it plans to have 10 weekly flights on smaller Boeing 777 jets.
Off topic a bit - anyone know if Virgin Blue has had talks with United or anyone else for that matter in the US regarding an Interline Discount agreement? We have an agreement now with QANTAS but one with Virgin Blue would be good for employees at both companies.
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United is part of the Star Alliance. But most airlines in the US have employee travel agreements with airlines that are partners in the other "alliances" (oneworld, skyteam). I had no idea that QF employees do not get a reciprocal benefit on United? Why would they let our people travel on their planes unless they were getting something in return?
Is Virgin Blue a member of any of these partnerships?
Back to the original topic, I know Delta has expressed interest over the years in a trans-pacific route. Perhaps the newly merged DL/NW will do something about it.
Is Virgin Blue a member of any of these partnerships?
Back to the original topic, I know Delta has expressed interest over the years in a trans-pacific route. Perhaps the newly merged DL/NW will do something about it.
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Weasil,
As you may remember Northwest operated a 747-400 direct LAX-SYD and then went through Japan on fifth-freedom to Aus. for a while. When they started going through Osaka, there was quite some controversy surrounding the reciprocity of the arrangement and then for some strange reason they stopped both services. I've spoken with a retired Northwest skipper who now flies at Netjets and he said the aircraft were always so full they were off-loading pax or freight;-normally pax. He said that it was totally strange to him that they canceled the service.
Others have made reference to United. The prices, quality of staff and appearance of the aircraft are nowhere near as good as on Qantas. I have never seen a space positive ticket on United cheaper than QF in seventeen years of being a passenger on that route. It just seems that everything is better on Qantas, especially if you have kids with you. Last August we did a ski trip in New Zealand before going to Oz and everything ran great the whole way down and back. The flight attendants were really nice to my 3 year old and made him feel very welcome. My twelve year old made the comment when we got back to Pittsburgh that it was the greatest travel experience he could ever imagine and that the quality of Qantas was amazing by comparison to the US carriers.
I know that some of you who at QF are upset with management, but the workers are great.
As you may remember Northwest operated a 747-400 direct LAX-SYD and then went through Japan on fifth-freedom to Aus. for a while. When they started going through Osaka, there was quite some controversy surrounding the reciprocity of the arrangement and then for some strange reason they stopped both services. I've spoken with a retired Northwest skipper who now flies at Netjets and he said the aircraft were always so full they were off-loading pax or freight;-normally pax. He said that it was totally strange to him that they canceled the service.
Others have made reference to United. The prices, quality of staff and appearance of the aircraft are nowhere near as good as on Qantas. I have never seen a space positive ticket on United cheaper than QF in seventeen years of being a passenger on that route. It just seems that everything is better on Qantas, especially if you have kids with you. Last August we did a ski trip in New Zealand before going to Oz and everything ran great the whole way down and back. The flight attendants were really nice to my 3 year old and made him feel very welcome. My twelve year old made the comment when we got back to Pittsburgh that it was the greatest travel experience he could ever imagine and that the quality of Qantas was amazing by comparison to the US carriers.
I know that some of you who at QF are upset with management, but the workers are great.
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Fifth Freedom Rights States/Japan/Oz
These rights are available... with one caveat..no pick up of pax originating in Japan to Australia.If pax originated in the states they can transported through Japan to Australia.The US carriers do not have the right to pick up Japanese pax in Japan and carry them to OZ.Thats the reason NWA stopped...almost no pax originating in the US and travelling to OZ via Japan.
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From the SMH today:
http://news.smh.com.au/australia-us-...0401-22tx.html
Hopefully, there will be a few companies to join the Pacific crossing IF they can get landing slots at reasonable times and a decent parking space at the Aussie airports.
http://news.smh.com.au/australia-us-...0401-22tx.html
Hopefully, there will be a few companies to join the Pacific crossing IF they can get landing slots at reasonable times and a decent parking space at the Aussie airports.
Last edited by Lodown; 1st Apr 2008 at 03:51.
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staff travel
hi weasil,
regarding travel on other airlines.
contact your staff travel office to see if ZED fares are available.
if so they should also provide you with access to a password for www.gozed.com
you could also try this website now by
1. your carrier code e.g. qf
2. " 3 digit carrier code e.g. qantas is 081
3. password... zedfares
these fares help avoid paying fuel surcharges!
regarding travel on other airlines.
contact your staff travel office to see if ZED fares are available.
if so they should also provide you with access to a password for www.gozed.com
you could also try this website now by
1. your carrier code e.g. qf
2. " 3 digit carrier code e.g. qantas is 081
3. password... zedfares
these fares help avoid paying fuel surcharges!
captaindejavu
As far as I know, QF employees have no such reciprocal interline arrangement with United as they (United) are not part of the OneWorld airline alliance.
Can anyone else confirm this, with a reference?
Can anyone else confirm this, with a reference?
