Qlink-457 visas for Dash8-400 drivers
Nunc est bibendum
QF Accidents
No one- including the current generation of QF pilots- denies that QF has pranged aircraft and (shock horror) killed passengers at various stages in our history. Super Connies, Flying Boats, Rapides in PNG, QF1 @ BKK, etc.
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Keg
Why not read the posts before getting your guard up.
The AIPA can talk-the-talk; in the end thats all that it has been from the Executive, for years. Dixon hasn't been around for years.
To prove its true support then lets see the idea put to the vote to the members, before QF management.
Unite all the troops.
Just an idea.
Would you like to predict a result of either possibility?
Crewroom talk is one thing and a ballot is another.
Why not read the posts before getting your guard up.
The AIPA can talk-the-talk; in the end thats all that it has been from the Executive, for years. Dixon hasn't been around for years.
To prove its true support then lets see the idea put to the vote to the members, before QF management.
Unite all the troops.
Just an idea.
Would you like to predict a result of either possibility?
Crewroom talk is one thing and a ballot is another.
Nunc est bibendum
OK, let's re-read your comments.
Present tense used by you. Present situation is that Geoff Dixon is anti GOL and has written to the pilots stating that it won't happen. Present situation is that AIPA is trying to get a GOL implemented. Therefore you are wrong and either ignorant or are running an agenda.
There may be some truth to your comments as to why it hasn't happened in the past but I wouldn't agree that it's because AIPA has actively worked against it. Some AIPA COMs in the past have flirted with the idea but to be frank, management have never sought it.....if they did offer progression then there is nothing that AIPA or any other line pilot could do about it as we don't control who is employed.
I ly with 744 Captains quite frequently and apart from a few dills (that none of us tend to want to fly with anyway), there is nothing but admiration for the job that the regionals do flogging around the outback doing non precision approaches all day.
You are.
Wanna go again?
Because it isn't that the QF management won't allow career progression for the Regional drivers. it's the Mainline drivers that wont allow it.
Its simple.
Its simple.
There may be some truth to your comments as to why it hasn't happened in the past but I wouldn't agree that it's because AIPA has actively worked against it. Some AIPA COMs in the past have flirted with the idea but to be frank, management have never sought it.....if they did offer progression then there is nothing that AIPA or any other line pilot could do about it as we don't control who is employed.
A QF747 Captain has scant regard or even any empathy with a Regional pilot.
Nor do they want them amongst their rank.
Nor do they want them amongst their rank.
I could be wrong...
Wanna go again?
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Keg
Nope won't go again.
'Quote'
'I ly with 744 Captains quite frequently and apart from a few dills (that none of us tend to want to fly with anyway), there is nothing but admiration for the job that the regionals do flogging around the outback doing non precision approaches all day.'
When patronizing comments start, I'm walking.
No comments from me about 'Sky God' attitudes, nope, not from me.
ps I hope that all see sense and instigate career progression through the group.
I'm out
Nope won't go again.
'Quote'
'I ly with 744 Captains quite frequently and apart from a few dills (that none of us tend to want to fly with anyway), there is nothing but admiration for the job that the regionals do flogging around the outback doing non precision approaches all day.'
When patronizing comments start, I'm walking.
No comments from me about 'Sky God' attitudes, nope, not from me.
ps I hope that all see sense and instigate career progression through the group.
I'm out
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The only thing stopping qantaslink pilots progression to mainline is GD and thats a fact, the current AIPA management is working very hard to unite the pilot group despite the ignorance of previous AIPA leaders. I also understand the current CP and other high management types are in favor of career progression, it is amazing that qantaslink pilots have a better career progression to virgin than to there own company.
Nunc est bibendum
It's always interesting watching someone play the victim card time and again...particularly when they've been shown up as being a dill for their previous comments. If you want to continue being a dill Kev then just keep typing although personally I just admit when I'm wrong!
I have nothing but professional admiration (as do the vast majority of the rest of my colleagues) for what the regional guys do day in, day out. If you want to interpret that admiration as patronising or condescending then there is absolutely nothing I can do except to say 'have a nice life'. Enjoy being a victim.
Funny though that despite the face that you're ignorant as to what the current QF drivers are trying to achieve that we are both talking about the same thing.
I have nothing but professional admiration (as do the vast majority of the rest of my colleagues) for what the regional guys do day in, day out. If you want to interpret that admiration as patronising or condescending then there is absolutely nothing I can do except to say 'have a nice life'. Enjoy being a victim.
Funny though that despite the face that you're ignorant as to what the current QF drivers are trying to achieve that we are both talking about the same thing.
Sprucegoose
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I'm a tad surprised that Howard has gone along for the ride.
I still stand by my comment however that there is a certain amount of 'turf protecting' going on, even if by your own admission they are in the minority. Do these people by chance hold senior positions within the company? Within AIPA?
Perhaps this is where this perception (valid/or not) comes from?
Nunc est bibendum
G'day Howard, within AIPA? Possibly but the overwhelming majority of the COM is very pro GOL. Certainly I've not spoken to any COM member that is against the proposal.
QF management? I dunno....I haven't chatted to anyone in management about this issue in the last couple of years- I just read what Geoff Dixon writes to me about!
I hope that even they may be starting to see the benefits of offering progression to our regional folk.
QF management? I dunno....I haven't chatted to anyone in management about this issue in the last couple of years- I just read what Geoff Dixon writes to me about!
I hope that even they may be starting to see the benefits of offering progression to our regional folk.
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Sign Language
Howard and Keg,
Your agenda for the GOL and AIPA may gain more momentum if you would ask the domestic mainline drivers to stop giving us the "bird" as they taxi past our shinny jets painted in silver undercoat. I cant feel the love.
You will have to excuse me, I'm having a blonde moment, but I just can't work out how a QF driver, mainline or Long Haul would gain anything from a GOL. Are they REALLY that keen to come and fly a bus and the last bloke I told I was a Dash driver, didn't even know that we operated such a superb aircraft.
Your agenda for the GOL and AIPA may gain more momentum if you would ask the domestic mainline drivers to stop giving us the "bird" as they taxi past our shinny jets painted in silver undercoat. I cant feel the love.
You will have to excuse me, I'm having a blonde moment, but I just can't work out how a QF driver, mainline or Long Haul would gain anything from a GOL. Are they REALLY that keen to come and fly a bus and the last bloke I told I was a Dash driver, didn't even know that we operated such a superb aircraft.
Last edited by CAPTBOB; 14th Jan 2008 at 08:11. Reason: Afterthought
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Keg,
I remember a few years ago Dixon stated quite clearly that career progression would happen "over his dead body" and that if put in that position he would sell the regionals off.
The question you have to ask is this: Is it better to pig-headedly stick to this fatally flawed ethos and see the very people you need go to your opposition in unprecedented (and uncontrolled numbers), or do you accept the fact that you must offer them a career path, and take control of the rate these guy's progress out of one part of your company into another? (And keep them in the QF Group?)
The QF group NEEDS experienced crew throughout its operations. All businesses have a shortfall in one way or another. Regardless of which side of the fence you sit, the fact of the matter is that whoever has all the pilots wins. Currently Qantas is deliberately overlooking a critical means of stopping attrition.
The other problem they will be facing from February is the imminent onslaught into much of the Qantaslink market by Virgin Blue. Ironically, a lot of the E-Jet crews will be recently departed highly experienced QantasLink pilots! How will QantasLink respond? How can QantasLink respond?
Why did/are they leaving? Many for less (initially) wages!
There are quite a few Captains who do not wish to leave, but see no alternative. Lifestyle died with the last EBA but all the companies these Captains are applying to offer at least 2 more days off per month. The only other way of boosting your lifestyle is via a Mainline position.
Therefore, if the company is unable to offer much needed lifestyle improvements and a career path within the QF Group to their key regional staff, these staff will take the easier option and progress themselves outside the group. Then the group loses out. Both Qantas and QantasLink.
I used the following analogy to one of my managers recently: With the current crew shortages if I were in a position of influence I would be like a rabid dog trying to viciously protect my staff from going to the opposition. I would take all necessary steps to get them to want to stay - not want to leave.......If that means career progression and lifestyle improvements, then so be it. A small price to pay for keeping the opposition's hands off my experienced staff and making it harder for them to crew their aeroplanes!
At the moment more still want to leave. Kind of says it all
If I were a shareholder I'd be spewing at the thought of losing revenue through a lack of crew. I'd be livid if I knew these same crew were going to the opposition purely because of one person's pig-headedness!
I remember a few years ago Dixon stated quite clearly that career progression would happen "over his dead body" and that if put in that position he would sell the regionals off.
The question you have to ask is this: Is it better to pig-headedly stick to this fatally flawed ethos and see the very people you need go to your opposition in unprecedented (and uncontrolled numbers), or do you accept the fact that you must offer them a career path, and take control of the rate these guy's progress out of one part of your company into another? (And keep them in the QF Group?)
The QF group NEEDS experienced crew throughout its operations. All businesses have a shortfall in one way or another. Regardless of which side of the fence you sit, the fact of the matter is that whoever has all the pilots wins. Currently Qantas is deliberately overlooking a critical means of stopping attrition.
The other problem they will be facing from February is the imminent onslaught into much of the Qantaslink market by Virgin Blue. Ironically, a lot of the E-Jet crews will be recently departed highly experienced QantasLink pilots! How will QantasLink respond? How can QantasLink respond?
Why did/are they leaving? Many for less (initially) wages!
There are quite a few Captains who do not wish to leave, but see no alternative. Lifestyle died with the last EBA but all the companies these Captains are applying to offer at least 2 more days off per month. The only other way of boosting your lifestyle is via a Mainline position.
Therefore, if the company is unable to offer much needed lifestyle improvements and a career path within the QF Group to their key regional staff, these staff will take the easier option and progress themselves outside the group. Then the group loses out. Both Qantas and QantasLink.
I used the following analogy to one of my managers recently: With the current crew shortages if I were in a position of influence I would be like a rabid dog trying to viciously protect my staff from going to the opposition. I would take all necessary steps to get them to want to stay - not want to leave.......If that means career progression and lifestyle improvements, then so be it. A small price to pay for keeping the opposition's hands off my experienced staff and making it harder for them to crew their aeroplanes!
At the moment more still want to leave. Kind of says it all
If I were a shareholder I'd be spewing at the thought of losing revenue through a lack of crew. I'd be livid if I knew these same crew were going to the opposition purely because of one person's pig-headedness!
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 14th Jan 2008 at 08:53.
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Hullo Clarrie!
I banged my head against a brick wall with the last post.
Guess what?
All I did was hurt my head. Ops normal
I would never be a good aviation manager, because I believe my staff are my key asset. That would get me sacked in the blink of an eye. Or at least no KPI bonus. The aforementioned philosophy of looking after your staff seems to be a successful cornerstone in every industry except aviation.
Hope the family is well mate.
I banged my head against a brick wall with the last post.
Guess what?
All I did was hurt my head. Ops normal
I would never be a good aviation manager, because I believe my staff are my key asset. That would get me sacked in the blink of an eye. Or at least no KPI bonus. The aforementioned philosophy of looking after your staff seems to be a successful cornerstone in every industry except aviation.
Hope the family is well mate.
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 14th Jan 2008 at 16:29.
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QantasLink to Qantas Career Progression
IMHO all is Not Lost...
I recently (days ago), received a Document from someone at Qantas Group:
[email protected]
And I qoute:
I recently (days ago), received a Document from someone at Qantas Group:
[email protected]
And I qoute:
Progression to Qantas*
* Qualifying period of 2-years applies before progression to Qantas is available, some conditions apply
* Qualifying period of 2-years applies before progression to Qantas is available, some conditions apply
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From the tone of the middle managers at Qlink, I get the impression they want us to leave.
- The roster/lifestyle has gone to ****e,
- the first "bonus" was an outstanding, insulting disaster,
- some wise bean counter had the great idea of charging new hires; and
- tired pilots have had much needed annual leave cancelled because of the staff shortages.
Q4NVS
This has been available since April/May 2007 and those 'conditions' involve all testing again (psych/skills then sim and interview). The only difference between this and DE employment is that some concessions are made in one area of the applicants choice which bias' the overall application on the competitive scale. On top of this, FT-9 scores from all cyclics are taken into consideration which, in a sense, makes it harder than DE employment.
This isn't the progression the guys in Qlink are looking for. True progression involves none of the above - just years of service and then straight to a ground school.
IMHO all is Not Lost...
I recently (days ago), received a Document from someone at Qantas Group:
[email protected]
And I qoute:
Quote:
Progression to Qantas*
* Qualifying period of 2-years applies before progression to Qantas is available, some conditions apply
I recently (days ago), received a Document from someone at Qantas Group:
[email protected]
And I qoute:
Quote:
Progression to Qantas*
* Qualifying period of 2-years applies before progression to Qantas is available, some conditions apply
This isn't the progression the guys in Qlink are looking for. True progression involves none of the above - just years of service and then straight to a ground school.
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DEC on Q400 .. I may come home for that & no visa Reqd ! lifestyle not $$
but feel it will never be on offer
As for Hugh Jarse - as you where one of the Good Guys in my time I must say surprised you have not jumped ship by now.. maybe progression to Jetstar for EAA/Sunnies...
As for those bent out of shape like DirectAny and Max Autobrake... get over IT.. Kev and I simply expressing what we encountered when employed as a Regional pilot over many years with Kd and QF Link, generalisation Yes so appologies to the Good Mainline driver's..
but feel it will never be on offer
As for Hugh Jarse - as you where one of the Good Guys in my time I must say surprised you have not jumped ship by now.. maybe progression to Jetstar for EAA/Sunnies...
As for those bent out of shape like DirectAny and Max Autobrake... get over IT.. Kev and I simply expressing what we encountered when employed as a Regional pilot over many years with Kd and QF Link, generalisation Yes so appologies to the Good Mainline driver's..
Nunc est bibendum
CAPTBOB, I flew the 767 around the domestic network for eight years and gave the regional guys and gals a lot of 
over that time frame but I never saw anyone flip the bird! 
I'm disappointed that is the case.
I do recall a funny time once when we passed in front of a DJ aircraft and the skipper said 'watch this' and flipped the bird at the crew. Of course the DJ driver got into the spirit of things and flipped it straight back. The difference was that we were facing his nose as we went past and so all the two crew were the only people to see our bird. We of course were side on and so the DJ skipper flipped the bird to everyone down the left hand side of our aircraft!
Hugh, I'm with you brother. It's insanity pure and simple.
over that time frame but I never saw anyone flip the bird! I'm disappointed that is the case.I do recall a funny time once when we passed in front of a DJ aircraft and the skipper said 'watch this' and flipped the bird at the crew. Of course the DJ driver got into the spirit of things and flipped it straight back. The difference was that we were facing his nose as we went past and so all the two crew were the only people to see our bird. We of course were side on and so the DJ skipper flipped the bird to everyone down the left hand side of our aircraft!
Hugh, I'm with you brother. It's insanity pure and simple.
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Armslides...........If bypass pay is not offered to all who meet the requirements, good luck getting any f/o to crew with you. Lots of sick leave and not a healthy crew room i should think