Pilots at risk on US runways

[VH-Cheer Up]

So much for the US model.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/...009000,00.html

[Capt Wally]

................doesn't surprise me at all really. I've only flown into Hawaii (obviously not as busy as the USA mainland major ports) a couple of times & I realised at how 'country' we are here down under ! Still you don't need to be over there to experience rwy incursions as the lattest Flt Safety Mag mentions (article on just that subject).

Vigilance is always needed in aviation even after the hangar doors are closed !

Capt Wally

[BrazDriver]

VFR,

It works both ways,

How about you tell us why yours is so superior then??

This is not an invitation for Dick S. Either!

[Capt Wally]

.............I think most here (Aussie drivers) would be refering to the 'amount' of traffic hence the amount of or lack there of of rwy incursions here in Oz purely from less numbers.

CW

[Capt Fathom]

Easy, there, chief....a whole bunch of those incursions happened as the result of actions of non-US flight crews

Maybe if the US controllers 'slowed down a bit' with the delivery of their instructions, it may go some of the way to improving the communication difficulties!

[goddamit]

Seeing things from both sides, there's the obvious sheer number of aircraft which sets them in a different league to us, also don't forget ATC are talking to each other coordinating departure & arrivals. What we as pilots hear is only a fraction of what these guys & girls do. Yes, it would help if they slowed down, but with the volume of aircraft & comms with other atcs, slowing down is sometimes difficult to do(even on a sub concious level). Even SY controllers deliver they're instructions rather quick at times. Not defending the US ATC but all organizations, airlines & government sectors find it difficult to keep up with the times & growth throughout the world. Vigilance is the best defence.

[DUXNUTZ]

Weather over here is a tad different to Oz too and should get a mention. Having to taxi around somewhere like JFK or Toronto in low vis with snow and ice on the taxiways is a bit different to say the least.

[tail wheel]

"...in the year to September 30, 2007, the number of incidents surged to 370, or 6.05 runway incursions per million air traffic control operations..."

I hardly think a rate of 0.000605% represents...

"a high risk of a catastrophic runway collision occurring in the United States"

I wonder what the true Australian rate is?

[Capt Wally]

........yr rith there 'duxnut'z' the Wx here is nothing like OS. One snow flake on a major aussie rwy would mean total closure !

And the time spent at the holding point awaiting t/off clearance seems at times very long whilst another is on what appears to be a loooooong final.Still I don't make the rules but they (the rules) sure aren't world wide where as the planes are the same, the humans in them travelling are the same, safety ought to be the same & the people controlling us are also the same. Myabe it's the way the water goes down the plug hole on the other side of the 'fence' !

CW

[Chris Higgins]

I've never had any problems here in the US. Much of the incursions are involving some really low time regional airline crews from carriers that have lowered their hiring minimums to the bare bones. Some are also involving foreign flag carriers that could never have passed the English fluency requirements just a few years back.

[galaxy flyer]

Incursions are a safety issue and the FAA has its issues with ATC controllers, but check out the neighboring thread on tower closures by Air no Services Australia. And NOTAMing airspace as TIBA! The ATC problem is everywhere.

[pakeha-boy]

Braz Quote...."How about you tell us why yours is so superior then??

.....gunpowder on your porridge this morning braz???/

most of us know its not the superior model,and most of us know it needs improving and tweaking, the system is constantly changing......work for and with it,since we are some of its main players,and the systen improves.......verbal potshots about its qualities,dont do anything constructive..

one thing is for sure,...it moves plenty of metal,and there are not many that do the same....try and tell the controllers to slow down in ORD/JFK/LAX........you ethier get with the programme or you sit on your arse and get no where......for those of you not up to speed with this stuff...well a couple of times in it,and your a bro-fessional....

like Capt wally said.....we are all at risk ,no matter where you are,and vigilance and awareness will just about always save the day.....I work both sides of the fence...never had a problem....couple of close ones......but thats the nature of the beast...PB

[Nsn-akl]

Chris Higgins,,,,before you go lumping "much of the incursions" on low time regional guys please keep in mind that I've heard more then my fair share of the "major" guys repeating incorrect taxi instructions and missing ATC calls. Also, I was in FLL recently and a Delta 76 guy was on the wrong taxi way which made me think of the recent near miss there....I don't mind taking crap for being a low time, 1000hr, regional guy but fairs fair mate!..
And yes, last week in LGA when the Captain (NOT low time) and I questioned the tower after we both could not make out what his intial T/O heading was, he bitched at us and talked down to us like we were private pilots, but who cares because we both felt safer to question an ATC instruction neither of us could understand then guess and get it wrong.....
I'd give anything to get back to NZ and fly in the land of the long white cloud and deal with low congestion airports...
(I'm really biting my tongue on getting into the whole "low timers" are the root of all the problems argument..)
Have a Speights on ME!