Flightwatch 27 VHF outlets being closed
Warning!
Jacko:
Dick and others, I wouldn't put it past AsA to get out the pliers and screwdrivers this weekend and carefully remove said "facilities' down to the last terminal and office chair and send them to the local tip.
That makes the cuts a "Fait Accompli" on Monday morning and of course it then becomes financially impossible to restore the system doesn't it?
I've seen it deliberately done this way in the IT industry to force the adoption of a new computer system.
All the facilities for Ausfic to do the full Flightwatch function are still in place and the staff is there. If need be, then staff from other ausfic areas can plug the gaps.
That makes the cuts a "Fait Accompli" on Monday morning and of course it then becomes financially impossible to restore the system doesn't it?
I've seen it deliberately done this way in the IT industry to force the adoption of a new computer system.
Thread Starter
Sunfish, the letter from the Airservices solicitors to my solicitor dated 15 November (see here) stated:
(My underlining).
I believe they would be very game (and very stupid) to remove any of the relevant infrastructure after making this statement. If anything like this happens (and I dont believe it will) lets hope someone will post details on PPRuNe and Ill be in the Federal Court quicker than you can believe.
(c) until the review is concluded, continue to monitor those frequencies which have to date been consolidated. This will also involve the retention of all relevant infrastructure.
I believe they would be very game (and very stupid) to remove any of the relevant infrastructure after making this statement. If anything like this happens (and I dont believe it will) lets hope someone will post details on PPRuNe and Ill be in the Federal Court quicker than you can believe.
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Be Gooorn,
It's a little bit late for KM to be asking staff how to fix
Our group which is already short staffed is about to lose ANOTHER controller. Depending on circumstances we will lose another one in Mar/Apr. I haven't heard whether we are getting any replacements. Our roster runs at high FAID levels WITHOUT any additional shifts considered, how are we going to fill the gaps? And if we do what will be the thanks we get for keeping the group running? Fukcall! A big $11 per head for a chrissy party? You beauty!! 
Love ya work KM!
It's a little bit late for KM to be asking staff how to fix
Our group which is already short staffed is about to lose ANOTHER controller. Depending on circumstances we will lose another one in Mar/Apr. I haven't heard whether we are getting any replacements. Our roster runs at high FAID levels WITHOUT any additional shifts considered, how are we going to fill the gaps? And if we do what will be the thanks we get for keeping the group running? Fukcall! A big $11 per head for a chrissy party? You beauty!! Love ya work KM!
Tch...Tch...Tch...
From 'The Grapevine'...or maybe it was the Townsville refueller's sister in law...
From a 'Memo' dated WEF 21 NOV...
- DOTARS will be conducting the external review into the transfer of the 'remainder of the FW freqs (TN, DN, TUD, ARG)'.
- And the result not expected until 'Late January'.
(So, is it good 'economics' or 'common sense' or even 'world's best practice
business plan'....to try and retain just the 'Fab Four' freqs??
Additionally..)
....."the review conducted by AsA and DOTARS to date on the processes and procedures undertaken for the transfer of VHF to ATC has proven the project to be robust and sound.
Feedback at the DN and BN RAPACS over the last week provides no safety or reasonable service concerns.
The AOPA Board has been consulted and expressed the same view.
In other words the delay is not an operational issue but rather a political one."
So there! Its just politics....Will the results of "THIS WEEKEND" make any difference???
And NO FEEDBACK from either the RAPAC or AOPA 'Interested Parties'?
So there you go Dick...all verifyable...4 freqs left to 'argue about' - That's the 'REVIEW'!!!
The rest of the freqs seem to G-O-R-N-E....GONE!
Edited due 'new' info........
From a 'Memo' dated WEF 21 NOV...
- DOTARS will be conducting the external review into the transfer of the 'remainder of the FW freqs (TN, DN, TUD, ARG)'.
- And the result not expected until 'Late January'.
(So, is it good 'economics' or 'common sense' or even 'world's best practice
business plan'....to try and retain just the 'Fab Four' freqs??
Additionally..)
....."the review conducted by AsA and DOTARS to date on the processes and procedures undertaken for the transfer of VHF to ATC has proven the project to be robust and sound.
Feedback at the DN and BN RAPACS over the last week provides no safety or reasonable service concerns.
The AOPA Board has been consulted and expressed the same view.
In other words the delay is not an operational issue but rather a political one."
So there! Its just politics....Will the results of "THIS WEEKEND" make any difference???
And NO FEEDBACK from either the RAPAC or AOPA 'Interested Parties'?
So there you go Dick...all verifyable...4 freqs left to 'argue about' - That's the 'REVIEW'!!!
The rest of the freqs seem to G-O-R-N-E....GONE!
Edited due 'new' info........
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 23rd Nov 2007 at 07:39.
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Probably too much red tonight but what da......
Mr Speaker; I move that the organisation which had been known as Flight Service be reinstated in its entirety!
Is there a seconder to the motion?
Is there a seconder to the motion?
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oh Pinky - if only!
The biggest problem with AsA staff and redundo, if they rejoin the fold within 12 months of taking their first steps outside, they lose the benefits.
Therefore to have the experience levels required, they need to regather some of the old buggers like Griffo, and he ain't leaving the west for no-one.
Me - on the other hand, I'd consider it. It isn't as if you can stick up a notice on seek or career.one or even the local centrelink office and have them walk through the door.
A properly trained FSO had completed subjects to CPL standard, was a trained BOM weather observer, a licenced ground/air communicator and also held a licence to validly provide an information service including DTI to IFR acft
(oh Dick, that bit was without having to request it! Oh, and then there was the weather that was usually provided to acft operating in an area that went from you beaut to uh oh - and, hang on - that was also done quite a lot of the time without requesting it, because of what did they call it again, flight following and a flight SERVICE)
The biggest problem with AsA staff and redundo, if they rejoin the fold within 12 months of taking their first steps outside, they lose the benefits.
Therefore to have the experience levels required, they need to regather some of the old buggers like Griffo, and he ain't leaving the west for no-one.
Me - on the other hand, I'd consider it. It isn't as if you can stick up a notice on seek or career.one or even the local centrelink office and have them walk through the door.
A properly trained FSO had completed subjects to CPL standard, was a trained BOM weather observer, a licenced ground/air communicator and also held a licence to validly provide an information service including DTI to IFR acft
Flight Service, or whatever you call it is a user friendly information service that is normally provided on request
Hey 'Mon'........
I'll bring the coffee,....you bring the biccies.......
ONE TO GO ! ! ! ...........
p.s. I C O U L D be bribed to come.....You KNOW that!...
I'll bring the coffee,....you bring the biccies.......
ONE TO GO ! ! ! ...........
p.s. I C O U L D be bribed to come.....You KNOW that!...
Depending on the conditions/pay etc, I'd consider going back in myself. Although I've not been one longer than I was one, I reckon the bug is something you never lose.
Pinky,
They used to say that when the world is destroyed ... "the only things left will be cockraoches and FSOs .."
If someone, with the appropriate smarts and resources put forward a proposal for a FS organisation ... you'd be surprised who'd put their hands up to help start it up.
As the other guys said ... " ... you can't ever get rid of the FSO bug (sic)"
I daresay even some of the folks who went on to be Controllers, still have a soft spot for the "Service"
And I still think there's some potential opportunity to somehow develop the new Unicom into something more.
They used to say that when the world is destroyed ... "the only things left will be cockraoches and FSOs .."
If someone, with the appropriate smarts and resources put forward a proposal for a FS organisation ... you'd be surprised who'd put their hands up to help start it up.
As the other guys said ... " ... you can't ever get rid of the FSO bug (sic)"
I daresay even some of the folks who went on to be Controllers, still have a soft spot for the "Service"
And I still think there's some potential opportunity to somehow develop the new Unicom into something more.
I'm in one of those moods
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... never was one (BK and CN don't count) 
.
... enjoyed the Flight Service System as a pilot ....
.
... CTA (ATC) and OCTA (FS) .... the way it should be!!
.
Pinky, I second the motion!!!
.
... enjoyed the Flight Service System as a pilot ....
.
... CTA (ATC) and OCTA (FS) .... the way it should be!!
.
Pinky, I second the motion!!!
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Flightwatch Dicked
Well, Dick,
I see that Labor's aviation policy is to remove the "inappropriate parts of NAS" and not let policy be driven by "powerful individual". This will make your Flightwatch Review all that more problematic, such is a pity. Flightwatch, already dead, would find it hard to do a Lasarus act without oxygen provided by yourself.
Flight Service long dead.
Flightwatch recently dead.
Any service to GA, just about completely dead already.
Good luck with Marn Ferson, but I suspect you've burnt too many bridges.
Jamit.
I see that Labor's aviation policy is to remove the "inappropriate parts of NAS" and not let policy be driven by "powerful individual". This will make your Flightwatch Review all that more problematic, such is a pity. Flightwatch, already dead, would find it hard to do a Lasarus act without oxygen provided by yourself.
Flight Service long dead.
Flightwatch recently dead.
Any service to GA, just about completely dead already.
Good luck with Marn Ferson, but I suspect you've burnt too many bridges.
Jamit.
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Probably too much bubbly tonight but it's someone's birthday today so wd...
The motion proposed by the honourable Pprune member is that the organisation which had been known as Flight Service be reinstated in its entirety.
Those of that opinion say aye, to the contrary no.
I think the ..............
Those of that opinion say aye,
to the contrary no.I think the ..............
Aye
Aye
Aye
- are there any restrictions on how often I can vote.
The way its going with ATC in general, I can see one dark and stormy night when I radio for help there will be this recorded voice answer me saying... please hold....
Aye
Aye
- are there any restrictions on how often I can vote.
The way its going with ATC in general, I can see one dark and stormy night when I radio for help there will be this recorded voice answer me saying... please hold....
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 24th Nov 2007 at 10:02. Reason: Spelling, etc
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Here's a scenario .
VFR aeroplane with 1 VHF does a diversion, wants to know latest METAR for destination or wants to amend sartime; used to contact flightwatch never had trouble getting through.
Now has to try and raise Mel Centre...no response. Too busy, or just can't hear us. Try climbing higher, cloud allowing, for better reception. Still no response. In any case he or she is flat out with IFR stuff. Thank god I'm not trying to make a mayday call.
In last five attempts at this have only been able to raise Mel Centre once.
Later asked the nice man who I cancelled SARTIME (on the phone now) how to solve above problems. Suggestions were:
1. Use HF - nah, don't have one.
2. Use NAIPS - erm, I'm in the sky at the moment
3. Call the 1800 number - see above.
4. Contact airservices and raise your concerns.
So now if a VFR has to divert, due wx and can't get back to base or get phone reception or is in a paddock somewhere...too bad. So there's a great safety outcome.
Also, flight plans lodged through NAIPS keep disappearing and not getting to the controller who needs to know. The SARTIME has vanished as well.
VFR aeroplane with 1 VHF does a diversion, wants to know latest METAR for destination or wants to amend sartime; used to contact flightwatch never had trouble getting through.
Now has to try and raise Mel Centre...no response. Too busy, or just can't hear us. Try climbing higher, cloud allowing, for better reception. Still no response. In any case he or she is flat out with IFR stuff. Thank god I'm not trying to make a mayday call.
In last five attempts at this have only been able to raise Mel Centre once.
Later asked the nice man who I cancelled SARTIME (on the phone now
) how to solve above problems. Suggestions were:1. Use HF - nah, don't have one.
2. Use NAIPS - erm, I'm in the sky at the moment
3. Call the 1800 number - see above.
4. Contact airservices and raise your concerns.
So now if a VFR has to divert, due wx and can't get back to base or get phone reception or is in a paddock somewhere...too bad. So there's a great safety outcome.
Also, flight plans lodged through NAIPS keep disappearing and not getting to the controller who needs to know. The SARTIME has vanished as well.
A quick quiz ....
(a)When the WX turns to ****e, who is in greater need of assistance?
(b)Who will get priority in this situation?
(c) Is this the way that we want Australian Aviation to head?
(a)When the WX turns to ****e, who is in greater need of assistance?
- Steel tube with IFR crew/FMS/WX Radar/Direct link to base?
- Bugsmasher ... low on fuel/unsure of position/cloud closing in around him/desperate for some ideas?
(b)Who will get priority in this situation?
- Steel tube requesting diversion?
- Steel tubes holding and sequencing into Sydney?
- Bugsmasher ... too timid to interupt "important business going on"?
(c) Is this the way that we want Australian Aviation to head?
- Yes
- No
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A quick quiz
b) priority 2, then 1 (unless advises a requirement to divert) and no service to 3 until he works up the nerve to TX. Then 3, 2, 1.
c) 1. Use it or lose it I say. If you show an optimist a half a glass of water he will say it is half-full. A pessimist will say it is half-empty. A manager of a Government Business Enterprise will spend 5 times the original cost of the glass on consultants who will report a 50% excess in glass capacity. New glasses of smaller size and revolutionary design will be ordered, earning a fat bonus for the manager. Two years later the new glasses are found to be water soluble, releasing poison gas as they melt. The manager doesn't even hear about it as he now works for Telstra.
The point of that rant is you can't expect ASA to pay people to hunch over radios all day doing nothing, the box-heads in charge really think they are running a business and are eagerly eying ways of trimming costs and generating bonuses for themselves. If pilots don't use the service it is taken away.
Hey 'Fokker'.....
""c) 1. Use it or lose it I say. If you show an optimist a half a glass of water he will say it is half-full. A pessimist will say it is half-empty. A manager of a Government Business Enterprise will spend 5 times the original cost of the glass on consultants who will report a 50% excess in glass capacity. New glasses of smaller size and revolutionary design will be ordered, earning a fat bonus for the manager. Two years later the new glasses are found to be water soluble, releasing poison gas as they melt. The manager doesn't even hear about it as he now works for Telstra.""
How TRUE!!!
And, the FIRST part of your Tx would be.......
"Pan" ....followed by ....VISA Card Number 5432 1234 9876 ....the acft C/S!
Cheers
""c) 1. Use it or lose it I say. If you show an optimist a half a glass of water he will say it is half-full. A pessimist will say it is half-empty. A manager of a Government Business Enterprise will spend 5 times the original cost of the glass on consultants who will report a 50% excess in glass capacity. New glasses of smaller size and revolutionary design will be ordered, earning a fat bonus for the manager. Two years later the new glasses are found to be water soluble, releasing poison gas as they melt. The manager doesn't even hear about it as he now works for Telstra.""
How TRUE!!!
And, the FIRST part of your Tx would be.......
"Pan" ....followed by ....VISA Card Number 5432 1234 9876 ....the acft C/S!
Cheers
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 25th Nov 2007 at 21:40.
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Hey Dick
Dear Dick Smith,
Any comment as to why you have not pushed for the revision to the pre-27 Oct flightwatch service pending the outcome of the review?
The service is now in no mans land - neither all done by ATC or all done by Ausfic. What a fantastic outcome!
Fer C sake, don't let the system wallow about while you play around waiting for a review that will never do anything but vindicate AA's position.
Any comment as to why you have not pushed for the revision to the pre-27 Oct flightwatch service pending the outcome of the review?
The service is now in no mans land - neither all done by ATC or all done by Ausfic. What a fantastic outcome!
Fer C sake, don't let the system wallow about while you play around waiting for a review that will never do anything but vindicate AA's position.