Jet* and Japan..A Failure
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Jet* and Japan..A Failure
No one in the Qantas Group appears to understand the Japanese Travel Market.
After attempting to crack the market with Australian Airlines the white flag was eventually hoisted.
Jet* is continuing to make the same mistakes.
The market is highly regulated with legislation in place to determine minimum pricing.
95% of travel in Japan is arranged through travel agents.They rely on commissions and incentives.
Jet*offers neither
Load factors,particularly from Nagoya,have been around50%..unsustainable.
Jet*will shortly withdraw from Nagoya and enter Tokyo.
This is an attempt to pick up expat travellers and backpackers from Europe.
The Japanese market also relates strongly to prestige..Jet* has none.
The Japanese market will not support a LCC.Those in the Qantas Group Marketing Department do not appear to have learnt anything.
Just like christianity this type of business will never catch on in Japan.
It is seen as a novel curiousity
After attempting to crack the market with Australian Airlines the white flag was eventually hoisted.
Jet* is continuing to make the same mistakes.
The market is highly regulated with legislation in place to determine minimum pricing.
95% of travel in Japan is arranged through travel agents.They rely on commissions and incentives.
Jet*offers neither
Load factors,particularly from Nagoya,have been around50%..unsustainable.
Jet*will shortly withdraw from Nagoya and enter Tokyo.
This is an attempt to pick up expat travellers and backpackers from Europe.
The Japanese market also relates strongly to prestige..Jet* has none.
The Japanese market will not support a LCC.Those in the Qantas Group Marketing Department do not appear to have learnt anything.
Just like christianity this type of business will never catch on in Japan.
It is seen as a novel curiousity
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Interesting... Just out of interest, why doesn't QF mainline keep control of Japanese flights? If the market relates well to prestige, shouldn't QF do quite well? Does anybody know how Qantas does on SYD/BNE/MEL flights to Japan?
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Quite a contrast, I have found the Jet* services to Osaka/Kansai to have quite reasonable load factors.
And yet this is part of Japan.
It's all about Choices.
And yet this is part of Japan.
It's all about Choices.
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As I posted earlier this year...
All J* flights catered ex Cairns..Who pays? And why?
If the model works and the product delivers, this is a furphy. Unfortunately the Japanese market isn't interested, there are too many full service choices providing a real alternative..
European passengers disgruntled, being thrown on J* flights from Singapore, having thought they booked QF...
The sad part is AO did try, it didn't work, the market is sensitive to the rip off. The J Star model is flawed, but the creative accounting hides the true nature of this Dixon disaster..
An amazing thing happens when you keep trying the same thing that didn't work the last X times you tried it..
All J* flights catered ex Cairns..Who pays? And why?
If the model works and the product delivers, this is a furphy. Unfortunately the Japanese market isn't interested, there are too many full service choices providing a real alternative..
European passengers disgruntled, being thrown on J* flights from Singapore, having thought they booked QF...
The sad part is AO did try, it didn't work, the market is sensitive to the rip off. The J Star model is flawed, but the creative accounting hides the true nature of this Dixon disaster..
An amazing thing happens when you keep trying the same thing that didn't work the last X times you tried it..
You're wrong Ace on what Jetstar offer agents. Jetstar have two sales offices in Japan to service the groups and travel agents market. They do remunerate agents and there are special incentives with the largest agents. JQ have gone about trying to do as well as possible to make this market work. Sure there are some changes which will have to be made along the way, but the market is far from a writeoff.
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eye_in_the_sky - yes it is all about choices - jetstar give you none - other carriers give you plenty of choices - for the same fare as jetstar with a full service carrier you can have a meal if you want (without paying extra) - if not its your choice! if you want a blanket you can have one (without paying extra) - its your choice. on international services you can have a drink without paying extra - its your choice!
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Please Explain:Eye In The Sky
What is "a reasonable load Factor"?
For most airlines the breakeven load factor is around 70%.Get to 80% and you are making tons of cream.
Overall load factors on Jet* are nowhere near 60%.They are bleeding red ink.
As QF Insider suggests the losses are heavily masked.
For most airlines the breakeven load factor is around 70%.Get to 80% and you are making tons of cream.
Overall load factors on Jet* are nowhere near 60%.They are bleeding red ink.
As QF Insider suggests the losses are heavily masked.
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ebt ...beg to differ
The Travel agencies are do not see Jet* as a prestige carrier,nor do their customers.
The Japanese traveller is very will informed.
They do not perceive Jet* well.
I spend a great deal of time in Japan and have yet to see any Jet* advertising.
This model will fail for the same reasons AO did.
Japanese travellers give their agents hell if the product falls below expectations.They are mindful of this when arranging bookings.
Believe me Jet*is on the nose.
Why else pull out of Nagoya?
The Japanese traveller is very will informed.
They do not perceive Jet* well.
I spend a great deal of time in Japan and have yet to see any Jet* advertising.
This model will fail for the same reasons AO did.
Japanese travellers give their agents hell if the product falls below expectations.They are mindful of this when arranging bookings.
Believe me Jet*is on the nose.
Why else pull out of Nagoya?
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Japan and QF Mainline
Load Factors ex Japan on QF Mainline are being hjammered by the exchange rate.
While J/C is pretty much full Y/C is running at around 55%
J/C is used by travellers originating in Europe as a means of securing a seat and avoiding SIN, BKK and HKG.
The service you receive in J/C on an Airbus 330/300 is superior to that of a jumbo.If local Japanese traffic was relied upon load factors in J/C would be around 50%.
The other Japanese ports..Osaka and Nagoya have never been serviced satisfactorily by QF.Old Equipment and poor scheduling being the main problems.
Qantas for too long took the Japanese market for granted and it is now paying the price.
While J/C is pretty much full Y/C is running at around 55%
J/C is used by travellers originating in Europe as a means of securing a seat and avoiding SIN, BKK and HKG.
The service you receive in J/C on an Airbus 330/300 is superior to that of a jumbo.If local Japanese traffic was relied upon load factors in J/C would be around 50%.
The other Japanese ports..Osaka and Nagoya have never been serviced satisfactorily by QF.Old Equipment and poor scheduling being the main problems.
Qantas for too long took the Japanese market for granted and it is now paying the price.
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It is simple to explain.
QF started J* as a tool to eventually rid it of the expensive workforce at QF.
Yes things at J* and QF will struggle until we see the evil plan succeed.
The 10 Year Plan
1/ Wind down QF and build up J*
2/ Close down QF sack all QF employees
3a/ Revamp J* as premium product & LCC with low cost employees
4/ Rename J* to QF with low cost employees to get Aussie population back onside.
Simple, it is happening right NOW!
Just wait and see if Little Johnny gets back in (AWA's and no redundancy payments )
S_cct
QF started J* as a tool to eventually rid it of the expensive workforce at QF.
Yes things at J* and QF will struggle until we see the evil plan succeed.
The 10 Year Plan
1/ Wind down QF and build up J*
2/ Close down QF sack all QF employees
3a/ Revamp J* as premium product & LCC with low cost employees
4/ Rename J* to QF with low cost employees to get Aussie population back onside.
Simple, it is happening right NOW!
Just wait and see if Little Johnny gets back in (AWA's and no redundancy payments )S_cct
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 11th Nov 2007 at 03:13. Reason: spelling
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Sadly, I can find no fault in short circuit's logic, nor in his time line, and I do believe I made pretty much the same comment somewhere here on D&G some time ago and was howled down by Keg and other QF insiders for "not knowing what I was talking about".
I really hope short circuit and I are wrong, but it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to imagine what some of the converations around Dikko and Margaret's conference table will have been on the subject of staff costs these last few years.
I really hope short circuit and I are wrong, but it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to imagine what some of the converations around Dikko and Margaret's conference table will have been on the subject of staff costs these last few years.
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So...
Agree with most of what you say but...
why close down AO?
AO had a cost base of around 30% less than mainline.
Regardless,duopolies(JAL and QF)are never effective or efficient particularly for the traveller.
why close down AO?
AO had a cost base of around 30% less than mainline.
Regardless,duopolies(JAL and QF)are never effective or efficient particularly for the traveller.
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why close down AO?
J* is AO MK II and the whole concept is to get the cost base as low as they can get it.
AO did not get the cost base low enough or rather they thought of ideas after the start of AO that were even lower.When J* was up and running they could no longer see the need for AO.
They (Darth and friends) worked on the group that designed Howard's IR laws and they know what legislation they need to achieve these kind of work practices.
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I understand Darth is no longer flavour of the month with new chairperson, and will be sitting out contract as a golden parachutey type thing. Needless to say, still getting payed bucketloads to screw everyone and ruin a company!
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I think AO, as was Australian Asia (remember that one) was just to test the water on non competing routes and setup an infrastructure to introduce J*. AA was the first test that failed, J* worked, with support at first. It worked as now we move onto QF routes and beyond.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPVdLcq79M
As I have posted just a moment ago on another thread, I bid a fond
bon voyage to all who were here in the god old days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPVdLcq79M
As I have posted just a moment ago on another thread, I bid a fond
bon voyage to all who were here in the god old days.
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Wrong
Australia Asia Airlines was set up to appease the Mainline Chinese Government who were not happy about QF flying into Taiwan.
Individuals who do the same work as others but for less remuneration have a Kangaroo loose in the top paddock.
My good old days are now...I am happy with my remuneration and associated conditions.
I do, however, have an exit strategy
Individuals who do the same work as others but for less remuneration have a Kangaroo loose in the top paddock.
My good old days are now...I am happy with my remuneration and associated conditions.
I do, however, have an exit strategy
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surfside6 I am always happy to be corrected and with thanks, (unless it
is a technical error)
(PS I love these little guys)
I have no idea what was going on those days, I must have a few loose
skippy’s loose up there, hop, hop, hop…. hick.. I fixed em and sent then
on their way back to Asia as they were red & white with Oz rego VH-OGA.
Australian Asian Airlines, C/O Cpt Allan Tyrell. How did he get that gig?
Where is he now? What happened to him & AAA.
Just another era that we may want to forget.
I agree that my pay is reasonable but conditions, support and future are
at an all time low. Hence the search for razor blades.
is a technical error)
(PS I love these little guys)I have no idea what was going on those days, I must have a few loose
skippy’s loose up there, hop, hop, hop…. hick.. I fixed em and sent then
on their way back to Asia as they were red & white with Oz rego VH-OGA.
Australian Asian Airlines, C/O Cpt Allan Tyrell. How did he get that gig?
Where is he now? What happened to him & AAA.
Just another era that we may want to forget.
I agree that my pay is reasonable but conditions, support and future are
at an all time low. Hence the search for razor blades.
The first QF aircraft were 747-SP to fly in the " Aust Asia " callsign days. The flights were full. We used to call the tail signage Mr. Squiggle. My memory is that Ken Davenport was Chief Pilot