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American Airllines pilots ask for a 53% pay rise.

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American Airllines pilots ask for a 53% pay rise.

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Old 30th Oct 2007, 00:37
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American Airlines pilots ask for a 53% pay rise.

An interesting thread has started up in Rumours and News.http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=297782
American pilots ask for pay increase of 53 percent
Fort Worth Star-Telegam, October 24, 2007
American Airlines' pilots have asked for a hefty boost in pay and benefits, a proposal that analysts said would likely lead to long and arduous contract negotiations at the world's largest airline.
The proposal, presented to the airline Tuesday, requests a one-time raise that would restore pilot salaries to 1992 levels, when adjusted for inflation. If approved by May 2008, that would mean a raise of about 53 percent.
The union also asked for future annual raises of 6 percent and annual cost-of-living increases, and a signing bonus that totals 15 percent of a pilot's earnings between July 21, 2006, when talks began, and the effective date of the new contract.
Labor leaders said the proposal restores purchasing power that pilots have lost since 1992 to pay cuts and inflation. They point out that American's executives have enjoyed a substantial increase in pay in recent years while pilot earnings have fallen.
"Inflation has killed our purchasing power," said Karl Schricker, an American pilot and spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the 12,000 pilots at the Fort Worth-based airline. "Senior management, meanwhile, has seen theirs go up over 500 percent."
Airline officials said they were reviewing the proposal. But they stressed that any significant increase in pay would likely hurt the company's competitive position.
"At first glance, it appears the items they've proposed would dramatically increase our pilot costs, which would make us even less competitive," spokeswoman Tami McLallen said. "And some of the things they've asked for are unprecedented."
The contract talks are being closely watched by the industry. American is the first major hub carrier to negotiate a new deal with pilots since the wave of bankruptcies and restructuring after 9-11 that dramatically cut employee wages and benefits. Already struggling with the rapid rise in fuel prices, airlines are worried that steeper labor costs will jeopardize the industry's turnaround.
In 2003, when American was on the brink of bankruptcy, pilots approved concessions that slashed average pay by 23 percent, saving the airline about $660 million annually and allowing it to avoid a Chapter 11 filing. Since then, American has returned to profitability, with six straight profitable quarters.
So far this year, American has earned $573 million in profit. Union leaders argue that the financial turnaround means that it's time for the airline to restore pilots' pay. And they say that their proposal would not significantly boost the airline's costs.
According to the union, the deal would increase the total cost of transporting one seat one mile by about a half-cent. That would be about a 4 percent increase, and would still give the airline lower costs than Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines and US Airways.
"American has been able to absorb the cost of fuel and still earn millions in profits," Schricker said. "They could certainly absorb this modest increase."
McLallen said it was too early for the airline to provide a detailed analysis of the proposal's impact on costs.
One analyst was skeptical. William Swelbar, a researcher for the International Center for Air Transport at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said it would be "pretty hard for [American] to get their arms around this."
He said the proposed 6 percent raises, plus cost-of-living adjustments, are "unheard of" in the industry today.
"It's been an awful long time since we've seen raises like this for anyone," said Swelbar, who has worked in the airline industry for nearly 30 years, both for unions and management.
He predicted that the proposal signaled that pilots are ready to endure long and difficult bargaining over the new contract.
"It's seems to me that this is inviting a very long and arduous negotiation," he said. "And that might be their strategy."
Labor leaders, however, said the proposal is reasonable and are hopeful that talks will be swift.
"We understand the need to be competitive," Schricker said. "This allows us to keep a cost advantage, and we don't see why we can't move quickly on it."
In May, the union submitted a pay proposal that included a 30 percent raise as well as signing bonuses -- a plan that was rejected by the airline. Two months later, union members elected new leaders who promised to take a more aggressive negotiating stance. Talks, which had formally begun more than a year ago, essentially restarted with new pilot negotiators.
Schricker said the new pay plan reflects the desires of pilots, which were documented in a survey this summer.
"They just want to get back what they've lost," he said.
The proposal would also:
Give pilots holiday pay for work on 10 scheduled holidays, including Christmas, Labor Day and Super Bowl Sunday. The current contract doesn't provide holiday pay.
Increase vacation time and change sick time to "personal time" that can be used for any reason, including illness.
Implement an unspecified annual bonus plan for pilots based on the company's performance.
Eliminate a one-year probation period for new hires.
The deal, which would last until Jan. 4, 2011, would also greatly quicken the pace of negotiations for the next contract. It specifies that talks would begin 180 days before the contract opened for changes and that mediation could begin 120 prior to that days if the two sides couldn't reach an agreement.
It would allow the union to strike if a deal isn't reached by the contract's amendable date.
Currently, talks at American and other airlines are conducted under federal laws that allow for significant mediation and "cooling-off" time before unions can strike. That time often extends years beyond the contract's final date.
The pilots' proposal also asks the airline to pay all of the union's direct negotiating costs. Currently those expenses are shouldered by the union.
The pilot plan did not address scheduling or productivity. Airline executives have insisted that productivity gains must accompany any pay increases. Labor leaders said those issues will be addressed in future proposals.
The pilots are just one of three major contracts that American will be negotiating over the next few years. Next month, the airline will begin talks with the union that represents mechanics and other ground workers. And flight attendants will begin their negotiations in March.
Shares of AMR Corp., American's parent (ticker: AMR), closed at $24.65, up $1.34, in trading Tuesday.

Last edited by Mr. Hat; 30th Oct 2007 at 03:22.
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Old 30th Oct 2007, 01:57
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So why put it here ?
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Old 30th Oct 2007, 02:05
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Currently a lot of dicussion on IR in the DG forum. This is just another perspective.

It's also been posted on Fragrant Harbour so i guess its relevant to those guys as well.

Last edited by Mr. Hat; 30th Oct 2007 at 07:34.
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Old 30th Oct 2007, 11:59
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Just got another 3% pay rise with offsets (ie no real payrise)
*pumps fist*
YESSSSS!
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Old 30th Oct 2007, 18:01
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Show me the money

Thanks Mr. Hat

We need stories like this more...Give our current pilots that have been bought up in lean times some perspective of what we are really worth.

Pays are so low that is why we have a shortage, if the money was there of the last few years people would have kept training to get the reward.

53% pay rise for the pilot, 100% increase in moral, 1.5% climb in overall opperating cost offset by increased performance of a happy pilot made to feel like looking after his company.

Can you be bothered to ask for track shortening if you have just been shafted?
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Old 31st Oct 2007, 00:08
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Noone really expects to achieve a 50% increase but people tend to want to keep ahead of the price of groceries and not end up in living in a cardboard box as a minimum. The old three percent (as ggrowler has just indicated ) doesn't really cut it anymore.

Just compare (1992-2007) the dollars for teacher, nurse, bricklayer, pilot and house. Some would say we loose ground every year.

There is a "shortage", a shortage of people that can afford to live on 40-50k.
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Old 31st Oct 2007, 17:55
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Roost said:
We need stories like this more...Give our current pilots that have been bought up in lean times some perspective of what we are really worth.
Err, correction. What this story actually shows is that US pilots are just as delusional as their Australian counterparts when it comes to understanding their own industry.

The notion that they should be earning the same as they were 15 years ago is just plain ludicrous. Nice try, and many will fall for it.

Should gold be the same price as it was 15 years ago? Should I be getting the same return today as I was 15 years ago on some particular investment?
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Old 31st Oct 2007, 18:35
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Thumbs down

Should I be getting the same return today as I was 15 years ago on some particular investment?
No you shouldn't because you're such a foolish twit you don't deserve to be living above the poverty line. You obviously enjoy being poor and moaning about your position. Are you from WA???

Have you ever had anything sensible to say?

Do you enjoy being a punching bag???
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Old 31st Oct 2007, 22:56
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So Aircraft could you explain what is a fair deal in your book? 3%? Do you think that an airline pilot should be paid the same as a nurse teacher bricklayer? Do you think that given that houses are in some cases double and triple what they were 5-10 years that any correction to wages is required?
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 04:31
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hi aircraft,
gold price is 40% below its historical high in the seventies
allowing for inflation
we invest in housing/shares whatever to make a return above inflation
after taxes etc, if u don't apply this principal when investing your labour
you may as well give up as it all becomes pointless.
go pilots....fog
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 08:10
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Aircraft Said
Should I be getting the same return today as I was 15 years ago on some particular investment?
Should I call in sick and stop you from attending your idiot meeting? YES! And I do it every month mate! LOL Winge but we reign supreme as ever! haha oh the glory of controlling the pathetic managers lifes and we will push harder soon!

By the way yes I have gone on strike 4 times, 3 times a pay rise and once a bankrupt company! OH YES!!!

Oh life is sweet!
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 08:34
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Reading posts in the North American-, D&G-, Fragrant Harbour-, African-, Middle Eastern- and Rumours & News forums, it is VERY clear that pilots around the globe are fed up.

And yes, it's not just the money isue.

The way pilots are treated - that's the real isue!

We are seen as the trash needed to take the aircraft from A to B.

And for trash there's no respect, and you do not want to pay it any real money either.

If only management can get rid of ALL pilots they will do so ASAP!

So, how will the pilots rectify this?

The only way they can.

By not selling their service, until such time as the pay and conditions of employment are fair.

Good luck to the pilots at AA!
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 09:18
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So PAF/aircraft just how long do you think wages can go down in real terms for non management/pollies before something really bad happens?

If you truly believe it is completely reasonable for average workers purchasing power to drop year after year ad nauseum while a small segment of the population issues themselves payrises at multiples of real inflation you are completely delusional...if you think there won't be a backlash eventually you're morons.

Taken to the ultimate conclusion all prices for all goods and services, like houses, go into free fall....deflation...and watch the financial blood bath then.

Sooner or later contrived CPI rates with housing, energy and food removed have to bite somebody on the arse.
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 10:24
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It was only a matter of time before young aircraft reared his pimply little face on this thread
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 12:38
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Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics!

Statistics: The only science that enables different experts using the same figures to draw different conclusions.

Statistician: A man who believes figures don't lie, but admits that under analysis some of them won't stand up either.

Last edited by El Kabong; 1st Nov 2007 at 12:48.
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 12:59
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There's a little more history in this topic than is being discussed. AA pilots were asked to work with the company to save it from bankruptcy. The union could have said, "Get stuffed!" but it didn't. Pilots sacrificed along with many other employees on the understanding that saving the company would be in their better interests in the long term. (I'm sure there is a lot more to it than is mentioned in the article.)

Lo and behold, the company returns to profitability and back into the light, thanks in part to the voluntary sacrifices of the pilot body. So now the pilots would like to share in that success. The company has returned to profit generation and the pilots think they are entitled to reap rewards and increased profits for their sacrifices too. If aircraft was CEO, we already know the answer would be a distinct, "Get stuffed!".

There's a message here for every pilot and potential pilot in Australia.

Aircraft:
What this story actually shows is that US pilots are just as delusional as their Australian counterparts when it comes to understanding their own industry.
No! US pilots were subject to the same scams and empty management promises that Australian pilots fell for. Fortunately, in Australia today, potential pilots are looking at the aviation industry now without the smoke and mirrors of the past, seeing the industry for what it is, looking past the empty promises and choosing other careers.

You say the industry cannot afford increases in terms and conditions. It's beyond that now. The industry cannot afford NOT to increase terms and conditions. Until company execs wake up to this realisation, they will only restrict their decision-making options and continue to transform the aviation industry from service and price competitiveness to a battle of employee attrition. (Rex's strategy is solely concentrated on trying to increase the flow of fresh pilots through the revolving door and not trying to slow down the door.)

It won't be long now before it will be a relatively easy matter to shut down a competitor. Simply blitz the competitor's critical employees with better T&C's and a sign-on bonus and they'll walk out overnight. A company won't need to lose many key people to cease or cripple operations. Job insecurity will just encourage the process as employees will be clambering to jump ship for fear of being left behind. Then waltz in and scoop up the customers left holding tickets in the terminals.

Previously, key people were considered to be the CEO's, COO's, etc., and they were well reimbursed to acknowledge the risk of the effect of them leaving. If a few people left from those positions, the company would stil continue to function and there was breathing time to get a replacement. Nowadays, the key people are becoming the captains and LAMEs. There's very little stopping them from leaving and very little acknowledgement from management of the risk to the company of them doing so. Unlike "C" level executives, when there is no fat in the pilot or LAME ranks, a large proportion of captains changing jobs overnight will have an immediate detrimental impact on company operations.

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Old 1st Nov 2007, 13:41
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PAF do you have any statistics on wages vs house prices over the last 15 years. Just at a glance I'm tipping they aren't favourable figures. Both my and my partners parents owned houses before they got married (early 20's).

We're renting - the rent these days goes up every 6 months. Both professionals with all the bells and wistles meanwhile mum and dad never finished highschool.....As i said no need for 50% but tell you what the 6 monthly rent hikes are making us think twice about having a family....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that an adjustment is required. Things are getting a bit steep for those of us that spent their 20s in G.A whilst paying off university and flying loans.

Milk and bread have gone up - time for the plane tickets and pilots wages to go up to.
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 14:15
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PAF I cannot put my finger on the number but I believe it is in the region of 75%(?) of peoples wages go in housing, energy and food...even if the figure was 51% only an inveterate economic rationalist could suggest excluding the items responsible for most of people's mthly expenditures from any calculation of inflation could end in a figure in any way related to reality...and keep a straight face.

When I see Costello/Howard or, just recently Keating, taking about 'core inflation' only being 2.5% I want to punch them in the face.

It is an artificially contrived concept used to BS the electorate....like tax reform.
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Old 1st Nov 2007, 15:11
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Isn't it interesting that the same people who laugh at science fiction listen to weather forecasts and economists?

An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today.

An economist is a surgeon with an excellent scalpel and a rough-edged lancet, who operates beautifully on the dead and tortures the living.
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Old 3rd Nov 2007, 05:17
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Just out of interest.....

From: "The Daily Telegraph" 11/09/2007


QANTAS boss Geoff Dixon finished the financial year with a hefty 27 per cent rise in his total annual pay despite a failed takeover from Airline Partners Australia.
Mr Dixon accounted for the lion's share of the $13.26 million pocketed by Qantas directors as they took home $2.2 million more than the previous year.

His total package rose from $5.27 million to $6.7 million while short-term benefits soared more than 60 per cent as performance-based cash incentives almost tripled from $1.01 million to $2.91 million.

The Qantas (qan.ASX:Quote,News) annual report for 2006-07, released yesterday, revealed Mr Dixon also received $2.18 million in fixed annual remuneration, up from $2.01 million, while non-cash benefits dropped by about $30,000 to $259,217.

Mr Dixon's long-term benefits included post-employment benefits, other long-term bonuses of just over $98,000 and share-based payments of $1.15 million.

Non-cash benefits include salary sacrifice components such as cars, association memberships and travel entitlements.

Jetstar boss scores big rise

Hefty rises were the order of the day across the top ranks of Qantas (qan.ASX:Quote,News) executives, with Jetstar boss Alan Joyce topping the increases in percentage terms with his total package jumping 87 per cent to $2.66 million.

Other increases included a 26 per cent rise to $4.08 million for Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti and a 13.5 per cent rise to $4.147 million for chief financial officer Peter Gregg.

Outgoing Qantas chairwoman Margaret Jackson, who will be replaced in November by former Rio Tinto CEO Leigh Clifford, saw her overall package increase from $534,747 to $592,685.

This included an 86 per cent rise in non-cash benefits to $110,911.

Directors rewarded well

PBL boss and Qantas non-executive director James Packer was rewarded with $136,350, while fellow non-executive director, retired general Peter Cosgrove, received $239,435.

Mr Packer, who joined the board in March 2004, will resign effective from the airline's annual general meeting later this year.

Other director packages included $163,838 to Paul Anderson, $219,088 to former Qantas CEO James Strong and $316,915 to Garry Hounsell, who also received a $50,000 bonus for chairing the target statement committee during the failed APA takeover.

Qantas delivered a record net profit in 2006-07 of $719.4 million with pre-tax profit up more than 50 per cent to $1 billion and revenues up 11 per cent to $15.2 billion.

The annual report's joint review of the year by Mr Dixon and Ms Jackson noted that the airline's share price had traded in the $4.92 to $5.85 range in the wake of the failed APA bid.

It warned that aviation remained a highly competitive industry with a positive global environment likely to encourage current players and new entrants to increase capacity.

Fuel costs also remained a challenge after a 45.6 increase in 2005-06 and a further 19 per cent rise in 2006-07.

Virgin Blue was targeting business travellers and would grow capacity on trunk and regional routes while Qantas faced new competition from Singapore-backed domestic carrier Tiger Airways.

International challenges included competition from government-backed airlines, Virgin's plans to start up a long-haul interantional carrier and the arrival of Malaysian long-haul, low-cost carrier AirAsiaX
So why exactly can't WE get pay rises????
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