OPERATORS..... yes you, looky looky.
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OPERATORS..... yes you, looky looky.
I know your sitting there scratching the head, some of you hiring consultants to figure out why we left, some of you dropping the minimums, some flirting with putting minimum hour drivers, even imports, into that funny, sometimes noisy place with all the pretty lights in the front........... but wait.
And wait for it. ---------------- "Conditions." There I said it, I know, I know stupid thought. STOP, dont click that mouse.
Just stop and have a yarn with the drivers. It may not be much, maybe a few less overnights, dare I say a salary 'enhancement'.
Last time I checked, most of you aren't doing too badly, profits are up, fleets sizes increasing.
It seems though most would drag themselves across the tarmac, suit in tatters, dragging bloody stumps where feet once were, selling the carpet out of the aircraft for pennies - before you would, dare I say it again - Look after the Pilot. I AM NOT AN ANIMAL................................. STELLLLAAAA
And wait for it. ---------------- "Conditions." There I said it, I know, I know stupid thought. STOP, dont click that mouse.
Just stop and have a yarn with the drivers. It may not be much, maybe a few less overnights, dare I say a salary 'enhancement'.
Last time I checked, most of you aren't doing too badly, profits are up, fleets sizes increasing.
It seems though most would drag themselves across the tarmac, suit in tatters, dragging bloody stumps where feet once were, selling the carpet out of the aircraft for pennies - before you would, dare I say it again - Look after the Pilot. I AM NOT AN ANIMAL................................. STELLLLAAAA
Just treat me like the person who CREATES the revenue stream instead of seeing me as a cost to be reduced.
Companies seem to love having non-revenue creating staff but begrudge pilots/engineers/cabin crew who GENERATE the income.
Companies seem to love having non-revenue creating staff but begrudge pilots/engineers/cabin crew who GENERATE the income.
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I dont think airline pilots do create the revenue stream. They fly the planes that create revenue yes. They are a very important part of the equation, as are many peolple in any aviation company, but not responsible for generating revenue. In an airline that is the job of sales/ marketing/brand management/yeild control etc.
The last time that I as a pilot directly created revenue was bringing in extra clients for a charter company. Before that it was doing the leg work to get extra pax for scenic flights.
Bulla
The last time that I as a pilot directly created revenue was bringing in extra clients for a charter company. Before that it was doing the leg work to get extra pax for scenic flights.
Bulla
In an airline that is the job of sales/ marketing/brand management/yeild control etc.
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WOHA! That’s RADICAL THINKING THERE MY FRIEND.
Pilots are leaving…….. Let’s improve the conditions so they stay?
MY FRIEND, stick to flying aircraft. You'll NEVER make senior management with that sort of clear, common sense thinking!
Pilots are leaving…….. Let’s improve the conditions so they stay?
MY FRIEND, stick to flying aircraft. You'll NEVER make senior management with that sort of clear, common sense thinking!
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Yes it would be yield but hey who's worried about that hey.
Yeah the pax and freight would get there for the first few weeks, months or even years. However after a while the wheels would start to fall off and things would go pear shaped. The companies we work at are pretty complex and their ongoing prosperity is due a lot of work by a wide variety of staff. Some work in or on the planes, some dont. Any way each to their own.
I am off to the pub for some of James Squires finest. Have a good night!
Bulla
Yeah the pax and freight would get there for the first few weeks, months or even years. However after a while the wheels would start to fall off and things would go pear shaped. The companies we work at are pretty complex and their ongoing prosperity is due a lot of work by a wide variety of staff. Some work in or on the planes, some dont. Any way each to their own.
I am off to the pub for some of James Squires finest. Have a good night!
Bulla
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human element
..............I've said in the past elsewhere on this forum that the only thing that the CEO's of any airline, any business for that matter are able to manipulate, get more for less and simply screw is the HUMAN element of a businesses bottom line....................all other costs (aviation related) such as airframe cost, maintenance, although that last one with QF is sliding backwards fast & the cost of fuel are rarely negotiable to a point where it's significant! Sure you need all of the above to turn a profit but what are we all here on this planet for at the end of the day???................simply to survive 'till the end, none of us had anything to do with coming here in the first place, but whilst we are here let's see who can be the biggest PR**K CEO.
.............Capt Wally :-)
.............Capt Wally :-)
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did we have a bad day at the office today did we???
loose the
attitude and i might start treating you with the rspect you expect an deserve.
I would swap jobs any day with a whinging nagging pilot, and then maybe you will see just how hard it is to get the bums in the seats and generate the revenue
Bizz
(waiting for the Pprun bashing)
loose the
attitude and i might start treating you with the rspect you expect an deserve.I would swap jobs any day with a whinging nagging pilot, and then maybe you will see just how hard it is to get the bums in the seats and generate the revenue
Bizz
(waiting for the Pprun bashing)
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bizzbody,
you are the one with the attitude.
And you are not even worth beating up.
An observation from my 35 years is that one of the most important things for a successful business is that you look after your staff. Not just in financial terms, but remember to treat them as humans; care about them, empower them.
Pretty bloody simple if you ask me!
When companies get this right, staff want to stay there and they become an incredible asset for the company. Aviation is sadly lacking in such companies.
you are the one with the attitude.
And you are not even worth beating up.
An observation from my 35 years is that one of the most important things for a successful business is that you look after your staff. Not just in financial terms, but remember to treat them as humans; care about them, empower them.
Pretty bloody simple if you ask me!
When companies get this right, staff want to stay there and they become an incredible asset for the company. Aviation is sadly lacking in such companies.
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me
I do not frequent this forum very often however this subject begs to be commented on. Best to relate a situation I had just recently. I had to tell an airport manager what I have told a few other people over the years. He had no respect for pilots, not uncommon amongst the shiny arse brigade. Anyway, I pointed it out to him that if he happened to go home at that very moment it would not have much effect on our operation, the flight would still depart and passengers would be delivered and $$$$ collected. If I or my copilot was to go home though, everything would come to a sudden stop.
You see, an airline can operate without any particular class of employee for quite a time, especially the seat shiners, but there is ONE employee that they can't operate without and we know that is the PILOTS..
What you need to remember is that the only reason that you have a job is because we are out there flying your lovely airplanes, not the other way around. You have a job becaus of our skills. Show some respect
You see, an airline can operate without any particular class of employee for quite a time, especially the seat shiners, but there is ONE employee that they can't operate without and we know that is the PILOTS..
What you need to remember is that the only reason that you have a job is because we are out there flying your lovely airplanes, not the other way around. You have a job becaus of our skills. Show some respect
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lets just say that i have a very low staff turn over but thats us... other operators may be different.
I dont really associate myself with other operators because i think a lot of them are morons to be honest so i cant say for sure how it is at other organisations.
There are always going to be pilots out there for GA charter.
By the way. The offer is on the table... you wanna swap jobs??? ill be up for it but the minute i dont get to fly and the first time i get told by you that due to whatever reason i cant fly.... i come down on you so hard and ill start nagging you..and getting the attitude...
ya know f it, before i get fired up about it, there is no way a line pilot is ever going to understand how hard it is and what is involved in getting a bunch of planes in the air...
I dont really associate myself with other operators because i think a lot of them are morons to be honest so i cant say for sure how it is at other organisations.
There are always going to be pilots out there for GA charter.
By the way. The offer is on the table... you wanna swap jobs??? ill be up for it but the minute i dont get to fly and the first time i get told by you that due to whatever reason i cant fly.... i come down on you so hard and ill start nagging you..and getting the attitude...
ya know f
it, before i get fired up about it, there is no way a line pilot is ever going to understand how hard it is and what is involved in getting a bunch of planes in the air...
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there is no way a line pilot is ever going to understand how hard it is and what is involved in getting a bunch of planes in the air...
I wonder what Paul McGuiness and Hudson Fysh would think of that.
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there is no way a line pilot is ever going to understand how hard it is and what is involved in getting a bunch of planes in the air.
Hat, coat........door.
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Meagain,
You and your Co-pilot walk down the airbridge, get into your sheep-skin covered seats and:
1) The Technical log book does not have the "Release to Service" signed.
2) The refueler does not arrive and/or refuses to refuel your aircraft.
3) The toilet truck dosent arrive and your waste tanks are full and EICAS message "FWD/AFT WASTE TANK" message is on screen. (Long haul flight remember)
4) The tug driver refuses to show and/or no tug available for push back.
5) Baggage dosen't get loaded. (Or one extra bag and one less pax)
Pilots are not the only reason why aircraft don't fly. This is a fact.
Aviation is a team sport, we all have to earn respect first.
aintsaying.
You and your Co-pilot walk down the airbridge, get into your sheep-skin covered seats and:
1) The Technical log book does not have the "Release to Service" signed.
2) The refueler does not arrive and/or refuses to refuel your aircraft.
3) The toilet truck dosent arrive and your waste tanks are full and EICAS message "FWD/AFT WASTE TANK" message is on screen. (Long haul flight remember)
4) The tug driver refuses to show and/or no tug available for push back.
5) Baggage dosen't get loaded. (Or one extra bag and one less pax)
Pilots are not the only reason why aircraft don't fly. This is a fact.
Aviation is a team sport, we all have to earn respect first.
aintsaying.
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Airbus A380........ 2 Billion Dollars
Boeing 787..........1 Billion Dollars
Pilots Wages........What you talking bout Willis????
Some things, money can't buy................ for everything else, there's us!!!!!
Boeing 787..........1 Billion Dollars
Pilots Wages........What you talking bout Willis????
Some things, money can't buy................ for everything else, there's us!!!!!
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Pilots “make it all happen” do they???? The burden must be extreme for you!
Arrogance, misguided importance, indulged ego and a blinkered view of what happens around you would be the only mechanism that could support an ideology like that.
Maybe you should take a more global look at your organisation, “try walking a mile in someone else’s shoes” who works for your organisation to see what they do that enables you to have such a myopic view of your importance.
Arrogance, misguided importance, indulged ego and a blinkered view of what happens around you would be the only mechanism that could support an ideology like that.
Maybe you should take a more global look at your organisation, “try walking a mile in someone else’s shoes” who works for your organisation to see what they do that enables you to have such a myopic view of your importance.
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Dear Butcher's Dog....
I love you. No, I really love you. Yes I do, I really really love you. What? This cleaver? Oh that's for the beef and mutton. Now come on come here, there's a good boy. Now stop licking me, NO! Stop licking, and stop licking me in your favourite spot. No, I won't put the cleaver down, come there's a good puppy, come and kiss your daddy.
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With due respect I think most of us who did a GA apprenticeship would have more than a good idea of how hard it is to get a plane into the air. I remember having to load 400kg of freight refuel the aircraft, do the load and trim write the manifest do the flight plan etc etc all in 32 degree wet season heat to just log .5 flying hours and get payed 22K per year.
I think the ignorance comes from people who don't know what most of us have been through to get to our current positions. I've seen baggage handlers purposefully drop crew bags and laugh amongst each other. I've also seen a baggage handler drop freight with a fragile sticker on it, pick it up and slam it on the cart while laughing thinking he's some kind of hero in front of the flight attendants (and yes they thought he was a tosser). Now if we conducted ourself in such a manner, I wonder how airlines would run.
With the terms and conditions being degraded more and more, and the cost of becoming an airline pilot becoming more and more expensive, I think we will see many pilots leave to better paying jobs overseas. This will hopefully put some upward pressure on our wages. And to be honest I wouldn't want to walk a mile in the shoes of the guy who's job it is to keep our conditions down right now
I think the ignorance comes from people who don't know what most of us have been through to get to our current positions. I've seen baggage handlers purposefully drop crew bags and laugh amongst each other. I've also seen a baggage handler drop freight with a fragile sticker on it, pick it up and slam it on the cart while laughing thinking he's some kind of hero in front of the flight attendants (and yes they thought he was a tosser). Now if we conducted ourself in such a manner, I wonder how airlines would run.
With the terms and conditions being degraded more and more, and the cost of becoming an airline pilot becoming more and more expensive, I think we will see many pilots leave to better paying jobs overseas. This will hopefully put some upward pressure on our wages. And to be honest I wouldn't want to walk a mile in the shoes of the guy who's job it is to keep our conditions down right now