Qantas LH.CC EBA
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Qantas LH.CC EBA
On December 17th this year our EBA Expires
Hopefully by then we will have a new Government.
The company has begun some posturing with regard to the EBA.
LG has referred to seniority as the "curse"
Management also sees the Preferential Bid System as inefficient.
Long Range Allowance on Direct Lax is seen as double dipping.
The slipping formula is also a source of aggrivation.
Just what are the alternatives to the bid system?
1.Allocated rosters...where you have no control whatsoever over anything..except sick leave.Those flying couples with children...well.. somebody will have to leave.If you have a partner that flies...you can kiss that relationship goodbye.
2.Squirrell Caging...otherwise known as rotating seniority would also be unacceptable to those trying to balance home and work.
So folks we need to start considering the issues.
This year your opinion and vote will be more important than ever.
Ultra Long Range Flying also needs to be considered.
New aircraft types.. the A380...777 and eventually the Dreamliner(if Jet* doesnt get them all).
LG has indicated we are too expensive to operate the A380.The concept of the "elite fleet" is in the offing.
There are other lesser considerations as well
1.Home transport
2.Drycleaning of Uniforms.
All in all a lot to consider.
There are many self interest groups within in the CC ranks...and no... you cant please everyone.
But lets all try to look at the big picture .
If we dont all pull in the same direction we will be creamed.
Start thinking now...decision time is fast approaching
If you intend staying for awhile try to think where you will be /want to be in five years.
If you are not going to stay awhile try to leave a worthwhile legacy for those that follow.
Hopefully by then we will have a new Government.
The company has begun some posturing with regard to the EBA.
LG has referred to seniority as the "curse"
Management also sees the Preferential Bid System as inefficient.
Long Range Allowance on Direct Lax is seen as double dipping.
The slipping formula is also a source of aggrivation.
Just what are the alternatives to the bid system?
1.Allocated rosters...where you have no control whatsoever over anything..except sick leave.Those flying couples with children...well.. somebody will have to leave.If you have a partner that flies...you can kiss that relationship goodbye.
2.Squirrell Caging...otherwise known as rotating seniority would also be unacceptable to those trying to balance home and work.
So folks we need to start considering the issues.
This year your opinion and vote will be more important than ever.
Ultra Long Range Flying also needs to be considered.
New aircraft types.. the A380...777 and eventually the Dreamliner(if Jet* doesnt get them all).
LG has indicated we are too expensive to operate the A380.The concept of the "elite fleet" is in the offing.
There are other lesser considerations as well
1.Home transport
2.Drycleaning of Uniforms.
All in all a lot to consider.
There are many self interest groups within in the CC ranks...and no... you cant please everyone.
But lets all try to look at the big picture .
If we dont all pull in the same direction we will be creamed.
Start thinking now...decision time is fast approaching
If you intend staying for awhile try to think where you will be /want to be in five years.
If you are not going to stay awhile try to leave a worthwhile legacy for those that follow.
Last edited by DEFCON4; 19th Jul 2007 at 09:27.
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If it expires in December this year, you should not see negotiation until at least the following March. The LAME EBA expired on the 1/1/07, no EBA on the near horizon for us.
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Think VERY hard boys and Girls about these two statements.........
Quote - If you intend staying for awhile try to think where you will/wantto be in five years.
If you are not going to stay awhile try to leave a worthwhile legacy for those that follow.
-------------------------------
Also, don't be afraid [if you are not happy with what is offered] to vote NO.
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/politics/results.html
Bye bye johnny, you lying little toad.
If you are not going to stay awhile try to leave a worthwhile legacy for those that follow.
-------------------------------
Also, don't be afraid [if you are not happy with what is offered] to vote NO.
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/politics/results.html
Bye bye johnny, you lying little toad.
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The old seniority issue is set to raise its head again. This for one will certainly divide everyone. Think of the perspective of those who are very junior, and will never get any more senior. Lots of these types are well and truly happy with the prospect of any change.
Not saying they are my thoughts, but certainly a common theme among those who are junior out there.
Not saying they are my thoughts, but certainly a common theme among those who are junior out there.
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Watch out for company stooges masquerading as cabin crew posting in support of the company's interests................The abolition of the bid system.
For many of us, an end to the bid system will have the same effect as a termination notice.
Lives have been built around the flexibility and choice afforded us by the bid system. A system that was imposed on us nearly 20 years ago.
Qantas plans massive expansion in the very near future with 20 A380's, 65+? 787's [shared with jetscar] and continual rumours of the 777.
Those who have languished on the bottom of the heap have done the hard yards.
What a shame to see the system abolished just when things are about to improve, for all of us.
For many of us, an end to the bid system will have the same effect as a termination notice.
Lives have been built around the flexibility and choice afforded us by the bid system. A system that was imposed on us nearly 20 years ago.
Qantas plans massive expansion in the very near future with 20 A380's, 65+? 787's [shared with jetscar] and continual rumours of the 777.
Those who have languished on the bottom of the heap have done the hard yards.
What a shame to see the system abolished just when things are about to improve, for all of us.
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my thoughts
senority will be an issue as most of us with medium senority are going backwards, because of reduced flying for LH. whatever the issues, and there are plenty, lets not forget this company is making around 1 BILLION A$ in profits this year. i do agree, they are not going to be in a hurry as other groups have not had an eba for month or years. domestic pilots 18 month (or thereabouts), int. pilots long way off, engineers a long way off and so on.it actually saves qf many millions if the status qou remains. as far as i am concerned we should give up very little.
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The issue of seniority will divide the crew full stop. There are a lot at the bottom who see no chance of ever moving up the list due to the way the company is going. Whether these directions are right or wrong, whether the government is right or wrong, we just have to adapt and move with the times.
With the current threat of new type flying going to others, it could be we will not see the 380 and possibly not LA in the coming years. But do we have to protect the senior at all costs in everything we do? Again not my thought, but you don't have to be einstein to know that this is the feeling among many regulars to certain destinations the LA people only ever see on reserve.
Once again, a united front will require all looking out for each other. The senior people may have to give a little to support the junior crew, and the reverse will also happen. Without this, the bigger enemy will tear us apart.
With the current threat of new type flying going to others, it could be we will not see the 380 and possibly not LA in the coming years. But do we have to protect the senior at all costs in everything we do? Again not my thought, but you don't have to be einstein to know that this is the feeling among many regulars to certain destinations the LA people only ever see on reserve.
Once again, a united front will require all looking out for each other. The senior people may have to give a little to support the junior crew, and the reverse will also happen. Without this, the bigger enemy will tear us apart.
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I rest my case..............
Divide and conquer has always been the qantas way.
Stay firm, united and consider the LONG TERM, STRATEGIC consequences of decisions made on our EBA offerings.
Those who have been before us did so and are the SOLE reason why we still enjoy favourable terms and conditions.
Qantas is going to have to employ hundreds, if not thousands of new flight attendants to crew their new generation of aircraft.
Existing junior cabin crew will shortly see the benefits of a seniority based preferential bid system through this new recruitment, but ONLY if we still have that system.........
Not that it couldn't do with a little tweaking around the edges.
Don't however agree, what ever you do, to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Stay firm, united and consider the LONG TERM, STRATEGIC consequences of decisions made on our EBA offerings.
Those who have been before us did so and are the SOLE reason why we still enjoy favourable terms and conditions.
Qantas is going to have to employ hundreds, if not thousands of new flight attendants to crew their new generation of aircraft.
Existing junior cabin crew will shortly see the benefits of a seniority based preferential bid system through this new recruitment, but ONLY if we still have that system.........
Not that it couldn't do with a little tweaking around the edges.
Don't however agree, what ever you do, to throw the baby out with the bath water.
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As Speedbird said...
Watch out for the company stooges masquerading as cabin crew posting in support of the company's interests................The abolition of the bid system.
If you read White pointers previous posts you will notice some commonality.
He only seems to come out with a post when something is happening that the company wants to influence.ie the LHR Base,the JFK vote and now the next EBA.
Here is a post he made to me telling us to vote yes to the JFK dispensation.
Lowerlobe: if we vote NO then how do we go about getting our NY slips back,
Well,White pointer...
The vote was YES and did the company give us back our slip in New York.............NO
You and others that support the company got what you wanted and what did the cabin crew get from voting YES...........NOTHING
Make no mistake the company does have people who post here that are not crew and push the company point of view and also sew the seed of discontent to divide and conquer.
The company has a lot to gain by splitting the crew.
Watch out for the company stooges masquerading as cabin crew posting in support of the company's interests................The abolition of the bid system.
If you read White pointers previous posts you will notice some commonality.
He only seems to come out with a post when something is happening that the company wants to influence.ie the LHR Base,the JFK vote and now the next EBA.
Here is a post he made to me telling us to vote yes to the JFK dispensation.
Lowerlobe: if we vote NO then how do we go about getting our NY slips back,
Well,White pointer...
The vote was YES and did the company give us back our slip in New York.............NO
You and others that support the company got what you wanted and what did the cabin crew get from voting YES...........NOTHING
Make no mistake the company does have people who post here that are not crew and push the company point of view and also sew the seed of discontent to divide and conquer.
The company has a lot to gain by splitting the crew.
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Firstly, before you get your knickers in a knot, I support seniority bidding.
Lowerlobe (ex cabincrew) and Speedbird, how the hell can you say that anyone who opposes your view is a company stooge masquerading as crew?
There are a lot of junior crew who are sick of back to back JoBergs and couldn't give a rats about the company or any senior crew for that matter and would welcome the chance for some different flying.
These are crew who get treated like crap by some of the very senior crew, more so than you perceive you are treated by management.
If you brand anyone who disagrees with seniority as a company stooge, then you are no better than George W branding anyone who didn't support the war, as supporting terrorism.
Get over it, let's have some discussion about the alternatives and forget your childish rants.
Lowerlobe (ex cabincrew) and Speedbird, how the hell can you say that anyone who opposes your view is a company stooge masquerading as crew?
There are a lot of junior crew who are sick of back to back JoBergs and couldn't give a rats about the company or any senior crew for that matter and would welcome the chance for some different flying.
These are crew who get treated like crap by some of the very senior crew, more so than you perceive you are treated by management.
If you brand anyone who disagrees with seniority as a company stooge, then you are no better than George W branding anyone who didn't support the war, as supporting terrorism.
Get over it, let's have some discussion about the alternatives and forget your childish rants.
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As Speedbird said...
"Watch out for the company stooges masquerading as cabin crew posting in support of the company's interests................The abolition of the bid system"
White pointer only turns up when there is something the company has an interest in and guess who turns up to support him...Yes thats right the company spokesperson twiggsy girl.
Don't forget some of Twiggs past classics such as ... "why would they bother with crew rest when they have perfectly good jump seats..."
As with aircraft you can make up your own minds.....
"Watch out for the company stooges masquerading as cabin crew posting in support of the company's interests................The abolition of the bid system"
White pointer only turns up when there is something the company has an interest in and guess who turns up to support him...Yes thats right the company spokesperson twiggsy girl.
Don't forget some of Twiggs past classics such as ... "why would they bother with crew rest when they have perfectly good jump seats..."
As with aircraft you can make up your own minds.....
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lets not go overboard on this issue!
The company will be very careful about the "seniority" issue as they are well aware that a lot of Senior people have hundreds and I mean hundreds of days of sick leave up their sleeves, and a lot will use it!
so if they choose to abolish the seniority system then they will have to deal with a massive sick leave, and that will affect the visitors KPI... tch tch
The company will be very careful about the "seniority" issue as they are well aware that a lot of Senior people have hundreds and I mean hundreds of days of sick leave up their sleeves, and a lot will use it!
so if they choose to abolish the seniority system then they will have to deal with a massive sick leave, and that will affect the visitors KPI... tch tch
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Lowerlobe, You certainly love quoting people out of context or take sarcastic comments literally, but get very annoyed when people do the same to you.
When I made that comment about crew rest seats, I was saying it sarcastically because there are many medium haul operators that do not give crew rest seats to crew.
Go and get a job or a hobby Lowerlobe, because your comments on here are pathetic.
When I made that comment about crew rest seats, I was saying it sarcastically because there are many medium haul operators that do not give crew rest seats to crew.
Go and get a job or a hobby Lowerlobe, because your comments on here are pathetic.
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It's simple twiggsy girl it was one of your many posts that are absolute classics.
It was not out of context and it was your post.....
It was not out of context and it was your post.....
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Lowerlobe, you won't give up.
I've explained that comment twice now and you still can't leave it.
Just realise that your 29 years of flying is finished and leave the comments on here to people who fly.
I've explained that comment twice now and you still can't leave it.
Just realise that your 29 years of flying is finished and leave the comments on here to people who fly.
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Ok how about some ideas of a seniority system that has some modifications that can benefit junior crew?
Here's one:
A certain amount of hours per year (or other predetermined time) that could be bid for in reverse seniority, before the seniority run.
This would probably work best with a one trip per roster limit.
Example: 200 hours per year, so this might mean 1 LA a roster or 4 JFK shuttles a year.
Here's one:
A certain amount of hours per year (or other predetermined time) that could be bid for in reverse seniority, before the seniority run.
This would probably work best with a one trip per roster limit.
Example: 200 hours per year, so this might mean 1 LA a roster or 4 JFK shuttles a year.
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block flying seems the only way to go that would please a lot of people.
Well that is please a lot of people but not all the people!
I know of one particular individual that Only does LAX and only does the long slips and only works L1 (first class position) will be very upset at this! unfortunately he is not the only one that has established this kind of pattern, people like him have ruined it for everyone, just too greedy.
My bet is the company will simply "d" day your roster and there is not a damm thing anyone can do about it.......
Crying to the FAAA wont help......... who listens to them nowadays anyway!
Well that is please a lot of people but not all the people!
I know of one particular individual that Only does LAX and only does the long slips and only works L1 (first class position) will be very upset at this! unfortunately he is not the only one that has established this kind of pattern, people like him have ruined it for everyone, just too greedy.
My bet is the company will simply "d" day your roster and there is not a damm thing anyone can do about it.......
Crying to the FAAA wont help......... who listens to them nowadays anyway!
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Incorporating any changes into the current system presents a number of problems.
Firstly,it makes the current bid system more complex and unwieldy and the company will argue against it for that very reason.
Second,The company is only going to do something which is of benefit to them.
Third,if you try to include changes to the current bid system you are accepting that it is not working and if it goes to a commission or other court the company will use this as an excuse to implement another work system.
So we are faced with 3 possibilities.
1:We accept the proposal put forward by the company whatever that is.
2:We put forward our own model for a work system.
3:We do nothing and try to give other compromises to save the company money.
IF we can accept changes that the company likes then we can keep the current system and that might mean that we get more flying and that means promotion for the junior ranks.
Firstly,it makes the current bid system more complex and unwieldy and the company will argue against it for that very reason.
Second,The company is only going to do something which is of benefit to them.
Third,if you try to include changes to the current bid system you are accepting that it is not working and if it goes to a commission or other court the company will use this as an excuse to implement another work system.
So we are faced with 3 possibilities.
1:We accept the proposal put forward by the company whatever that is.
2:We put forward our own model for a work system.
3:We do nothing and try to give other compromises to save the company money.
IF we can accept changes that the company likes then we can keep the current system and that might mean that we get more flying and that means promotion for the junior ranks.
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mmmmm........... replacing a rostering system that offers the choice and flexibility to manage ones family commitments for one that offers none just because some crew have it better than others strikes me as grossly flawed logic.
ESPECIALLY with the company's planned expansion.
QF management [sic] [cough] will rue the day they decide to remove the ability of crew to manage their lives around their flying career.
As Cartexchange mentioned..........
Thousands of us will be left with no choice other than to introduce our own ," forced sick leave burn program".
ESPECIALLY with the company's planned expansion.
QF management [sic] [cough] will rue the day they decide to remove the ability of crew to manage their lives around their flying career.
As Cartexchange mentioned..........
Thousands of us will be left with no choice other than to introduce our own ," forced sick leave burn program".