Congrats to the Pilots Who Stood Up For Reason
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Jeeez Clarrie and Ron
We are in vehement agreement about the necessity, or rather lack of it, but until the Government or whoever is responsible for it changes the rules we gotta live with it.
And yes I too get pinged wings, epaulettes and all at one place wearing and carrying the same stuff as another that went through just fine. Including finding a Swiss Army knife that I had forgotten was there in the bottom of my bag amongst the general debris that had never been picked. Was really pleased about that because it was a special edition given to me on my 30th that I've had for over 30 years.
If they are playing a game then it doesn't do anything for our dignity if we get down to the same level. I'm a Platinum member of and subscriber to the Rise Above It Club. If you wanna drive em totally nuts just smile harder the harder they try to make it for you. Besides, being cooperative makes it even harder for them to screw you around if indeed that is what they are doing. As for innapropriate touching and behaviour that's easily fixed, just make sure you have their name and make a written report to your company, they have a duty to take action. Without your express permission any touching or patting down is an assault.
Capt God?? yup, if they haven't got the nouse to get it and find it necessary to carry on so, then if the cap fits em they can wear it. It's their company and their union/association they need to mobilise not thier personal angst. Ghandi mode wont work on the screeners nor will all the standing up to them in the world. You are simply arguing with the wrong people. All they can do is refuse entry and call the AFP if you insist and then you have a really angry mob of pax when they have to call out another crew or cancel the flight.
Anyway I personally have the routine pretty well sorted out in what I wear and what does and does not ring the bell. Watch, mobile, keys and whatever else has rung a bell anywhere goes in the little tray and I get it at the other end. And I've stopped wearing my Harley Davidson belt
and have found an unbelievably comfortable pair of Italian boots without any steel in them, 
it keeps the blood pressure down, which at my age is important 
Giving in? Hardly, but it keeps life simple at that level, whilst I work hard at trying to get the changes necessary at the right level.
prag·ma·tism
Pronunciation: 'prag-m&-"ti-z&m
Function: noun
1 : a practical approach to problems and affairs <tried to strike a balance between principles and pragmatism>
We are in vehement agreement about the necessity, or rather lack of it, but until the Government or whoever is responsible for it changes the rules we gotta live with it.
And yes I too get pinged wings, epaulettes and all at one place wearing and carrying the same stuff as another that went through just fine. Including finding a Swiss Army knife that I had forgotten was there in the bottom of my bag amongst the general debris that had never been picked.
Was really pleased about that because it was a special edition given to me on my 30th that I've had for over 30 years.If they are playing a game then it doesn't do anything for our dignity if we get down to the same level. I'm a Platinum member of and subscriber to the Rise Above It Club. If you wanna drive em totally nuts just smile harder the harder they try to make it for you. Besides, being cooperative makes it even harder for them to screw you around if indeed that is what they are doing. As for innapropriate touching and behaviour that's easily fixed, just make sure you have their name and make a written report to your company, they have a duty to take action. Without your express permission any touching or patting down is an assault.
Capt God?? yup, if they haven't got the nouse to get it and find it necessary to carry on so, then if the cap fits em they can wear it. It's their company and their union/association they need to mobilise not thier personal angst. Ghandi mode wont work on the screeners nor will all the standing up to them in the world. You are simply arguing with the wrong people. All they can do is refuse entry and call the AFP if you insist and then you have a really angry mob of pax when they have to call out another crew or cancel the flight.
Anyway I personally have the routine pretty well sorted out in what I wear and what does and does not ring the bell. Watch, mobile, keys and whatever else has rung a bell anywhere goes in the little tray and I get it at the other end. And I've stopped wearing my Harley Davidson belt
and have found an unbelievably comfortable pair of Italian boots without any steel in them, it keeps the blood pressure down, which at my age is important Giving in? Hardly, but it keeps life simple at that level, whilst I work hard at trying to get the changes necessary at the right level.
prag·ma·tism
Pronunciation: 'prag-m&-"ti-z&m
Function: noun
1 : a practical approach to problems and affairs <tried to strike a balance between principles and pragmatism>
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Gentlepersons,
Putting aside, for a moment, the issues of dignity:
If there is general agreement (as there seems to be from previous posts which have addressed the point), then the problem is not so much with the people carrying out the laws, but rather with the laws themselves and they need to be changed. Do I understand that correctly?
If so, then it further occurs to me that there is a role for employing the political process. For example, if one Mr Bruce Baird MHR started getting a bunch of letters from certain of his constituents - all saying largely the same thing - he might be of a mind to ask questions in the appropriate places.
At this point, this is where your various representative organisations also come in. They should have political contacts they can make representations to. They do not exist solely for EBA negotiation purposes. It appears from this thread that here is a topic which they would find general agreement on and a united face would be something our elected leaders would have to acknowledge.
Whilst it's interesting reading, bleating about it on PPRuNe won't actually achieve much. What it will do, is to demonstrate to other interested persons that each of you is not alone in this and that if you got together on it, you might be able to get some changes made.
One pedantic - but possibly important point. I note from the ABC article that the DOTARS person said that "all persons travelling on screened air services... submit to screening". Perhaps the 'travelling' part is what needs to be concentrated on. That is, engo's, baggies, cleaners, etc. are not travelling - and so may come under different regulations.
I know it's a pedantic point, but that may be why they are able to access airside with less apparent scrutiny. If so, then no-one in the decision-tree seems to have twigged that they could bring some device into a sterile area, for later use by a screened person who is 'travelling'. You'd hoped they'd though of that, but one cannot be certain...
I haven't had time to go through the relevant individual regulations but the devil may be in that detail.
btw Bruce Baird's contact details
List of members of the Federal House of Representatives
Putting aside, for a moment, the issues of dignity:
If there is general agreement (as there seems to be from previous posts which have addressed the point), then the problem is not so much with the people carrying out the laws, but rather with the laws themselves and they need to be changed. Do I understand that correctly?
If so, then it further occurs to me that there is a role for employing the political process. For example, if one Mr Bruce Baird MHR started getting a bunch of letters from certain of his constituents - all saying largely the same thing - he might be of a mind to ask questions in the appropriate places.
At this point, this is where your various representative organisations also come in. They should have political contacts they can make representations to. They do not exist solely for EBA negotiation purposes. It appears from this thread that here is a topic which they would find general agreement on and a united face would be something our elected leaders would have to acknowledge.
Whilst it's interesting reading, bleating about it on PPRuNe won't actually achieve much. What it will do, is to demonstrate to other interested persons that each of you is not alone in this and that if you got together on it, you might be able to get some changes made.
One pedantic - but possibly important point. I note from the ABC article that the DOTARS person said that "all persons travelling on screened air services... submit to screening". Perhaps the 'travelling' part is what needs to be concentrated on. That is, engo's, baggies, cleaners, etc. are not travelling - and so may come under different regulations.
I know it's a pedantic point, but that may be why they are able to access airside with less apparent scrutiny. If so, then no-one in the decision-tree seems to have twigged that they could bring some device into a sterile area, for later use by a screened person who is 'travelling'. You'd hoped they'd though of that, but one cannot be certain...
I haven't had time to go through the relevant individual regulations but the devil may be in that detail.btw Bruce Baird's contact details
List of members of the Federal House of Representatives
Last edited by Taildragger67; 6th Jul 2007 at 16:36. Reason: Spelling error
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Dont we have an organisation(s) that is supposed to be representing us
What I would like to know, is where is the AFAP / AIPA etc on this???
I thought they were supposed to be working for pilots to improve safety, security and our workplace in general, as well as eba's.
These bodies seem to think that all we care about is EBA pay and allowances - it is about time they started focussing their attention on the rest of their responsibilities.
One of the biggest threats to safety and security is being developed at the moment, with the AFAP / AIPA seemingly doing nothing to prevent it.... The Multi-Crew pilots licence..... At the moment, to get into the cockpit of an airliner in oz you have to pay 100k, work for 5 years in some godforsaken place, get through psyc tests, interviews and sim rides, then (usually) pay a further 30k - what self respecting terriorist would bother with this... But soon they will be able to pay their 100k and 12 months later they are in the RH seat of an airliner with crash axe, handcuffs and (the most dangerous of all) a control column right in front of them.
This does not even begin to touch on the safety issues associated with the MPL - or that this will be the single biggest erosion in pay and conditions for pilots in recent history.
There are plenty of other issues that the unions should be working on that they seem to have forgotten - conditions (like security), respect for the job from both other aviation staff (loaders / ground staff) and the public, fatigue managment, pay and conditions of GA - and I could go on.
They seem happy to sit back and let our profession be reduced to that of a "glorified bus driver", whilst they have petty arguments over eba's - which they seem to have little clout on these days anyway.....
Rant over...... for now
I thought they were supposed to be working for pilots to improve safety, security and our workplace in general, as well as eba's.
These bodies seem to think that all we care about is EBA pay and allowances - it is about time they started focussing their attention on the rest of their responsibilities.
One of the biggest threats to safety and security is being developed at the moment, with the AFAP / AIPA seemingly doing nothing to prevent it.... The Multi-Crew pilots licence..... At the moment, to get into the cockpit of an airliner in oz you have to pay 100k, work for 5 years in some godforsaken place, get through psyc tests, interviews and sim rides, then (usually) pay a further 30k - what self respecting terriorist would bother with this... But soon they will be able to pay their 100k and 12 months later they are in the RH seat of an airliner with crash axe, handcuffs and (the most dangerous of all) a control column right in front of them.
This does not even begin to touch on the safety issues associated with the MPL - or that this will be the single biggest erosion in pay and conditions for pilots in recent history.
There are plenty of other issues that the unions should be working on that they seem to have forgotten - conditions (like security), respect for the job from both other aviation staff (loaders / ground staff) and the public, fatigue managment, pay and conditions of GA - and I could go on.
They seem happy to sit back and let our profession be reduced to that of a "glorified bus driver", whilst they have petty arguments over eba's - which they seem to have little clout on these days anyway.....
Rant over...... for now
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Whilst I'm sure some mental midget in the AG's Department or DotaRS will dispute this, but, as Taildragger67 has pointed out
with the operative word being
. I believe that Crew are operating a flight not merely 'travelling'.
I also smilled broadly at a suggestion from the R&N Forum of
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=282544&page=2
post #21refers
tipsy
all persons travelling on screened air services... submit to screening
'travelling'
I also smilled broadly at a suggestion from the R&N Forum of
Next time I'm going as SLF, I will take my old frying oils and paint with me to security.
This way, they can dispose of it instead of me having to drive to the toxic waste disposal centre.
This way, they can dispose of it instead of me having to drive to the toxic waste disposal centre.
post #21refers
tipsy
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Posted by The Chef:
"There are plenty of other issues that the unions should be working on that they seem to have forgotten - conditions (like security), respect for the job from both other aviation staff (loaders / ground staff) and the public, fatigue managment, pay and conditions of GA - and I could go on.
They seem happy to sit back and let our profession be reduced to that of a "glorified bus driver", whilst they have petty arguments over eba's - which they seem to have little clout on these days anyway....."
Dear Chef,
instead of pontificating about your perceived lack of Union response ,have you actually asked your Union what they are doing about this and other concerns that you raised?
I've got a few mates working thier arses off for the likes of you.They have no time relief ,limited resorces and a totally hostile Union busting management agenda to cope with as well.
Believe it or not ,I actually spoke with the Union and quite a lot of behind the scenes lobbying has and is being done.
So Bill, instead of belly aching on a forum such as this ,why don't you offer up some of that spare time you obviously now have, and do your two cents worth to make the world a safer place?
"There are plenty of other issues that the unions should be working on that they seem to have forgotten - conditions (like security), respect for the job from both other aviation staff (loaders / ground staff) and the public, fatigue managment, pay and conditions of GA - and I could go on.
They seem happy to sit back and let our profession be reduced to that of a "glorified bus driver", whilst they have petty arguments over eba's - which they seem to have little clout on these days anyway....."
Dear Chef,
instead of pontificating about your perceived lack of Union response ,have you actually asked your Union what they are doing about this and other concerns that you raised?
I've got a few mates working thier arses off for the likes of you.They have no time relief ,limited resorces and a totally hostile Union busting management agenda to cope with as well.
Believe it or not ,I actually spoke with the Union and quite a lot of behind the scenes lobbying has and is being done.
So Bill, instead of belly aching on a forum such as this ,why don't you offer up some of that spare time you obviously now have, and do your two cents worth to make the world a safer place?
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Two types of rules
Question to the DOTARS boffins.
If flight crew must go through a security check because they are "travelling on the aircraft", and caterers don't have to because they are only placing "supplies" on board and NOT travelling, then how come an aircraft cannot depart with a passengers baggage on board and that particular passenger has failed to board ?
If flight crew must go through a security check because they are "travelling on the aircraft", and caterers don't have to because they are only placing "supplies" on board and NOT travelling, then how come an aircraft cannot depart with a passengers baggage on board and that particular passenger has failed to board ?
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Mr Max,
have a look at item XIII recommendations from the Wheeler report
XIII
"It is recommended that the Department of Transport and Regional Services prepare regulations so that airports ensure that all those entitled to enter airside secure areas at CTFR airports in connection with work resposibilities should be subject to screening each time they enter, and potentially subject each time they leave, the secure area.
Can't see it happening just yet "Profitability before Safety" and all that.
have a look at item XIII recommendations from the Wheeler report
XIII
"It is recommended that the Department of Transport and Regional Services prepare regulations so that airports ensure that all those entitled to enter airside secure areas at CTFR airports in connection with work resposibilities should be subject to screening each time they enter, and potentially subject each time they leave, the secure area.
Can't see it happening just yet "Profitability before Safety" and all that.
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OZbiggles,
Your summary of the 9/11 pilots is grossly misleading. You seem to infer that they looked like employees of an airline, turning up for work with ID cards, uniforms etc.
They may have had 'pilot licences' and may have been pilots. They were traveling as passengers. I never show my licence. Your statement is irrelevant.
They got control of aeroplanes because they attacked the unsuspecting pre-9/11 crew and, unlike most previous terrorists, they were terminally suicidal.
Things have changed. Never again will an airliner be taken over with a stanley knife or a pair of nail scissors. Whether or not knuckledragger in security picks up their switchblade or not, they will NOT get into the flight deck. Period. Thats where the airline pilots are you ^&*!@#wit.
It would be better to have a separate entrance altogether for flight crew. Like we used to have.
Your summary of the 9/11 pilots is grossly misleading. You seem to infer that they looked like employees of an airline, turning up for work with ID cards, uniforms etc.
They may have had 'pilot licences' and may have been pilots. They were traveling as passengers. I never show my licence. Your statement is irrelevant.
They got control of aeroplanes because they attacked the unsuspecting pre-9/11 crew and, unlike most previous terrorists, they were terminally suicidal.
Things have changed. Never again will an airliner be taken over with a stanley knife or a pair of nail scissors. Whether or not knuckledragger in security picks up their switchblade or not, they will NOT get into the flight deck. Period. Thats where the airline pilots are you ^&*!@#wit.
It would be better to have a separate entrance altogether for flight crew. Like we used to have.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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I know I said before that there were some good points coming out in this discussion but then Oz Biggles jumped in. Just confirmed what I regularly say that some people are too stupid to be allowed near an aeroplane.
Blow.n.gasket. Can you give me a link to the Wheeler Report?
Just confirmed what I regularly say that some people are too stupid to be allowed near an aeroplane.Blow.n.gasket. Can you give me a link to the Wheeler Report?
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Taildragger67
Gets it in one AND provides a starting point for you. As a last resort votes or the potential lack of are what gets attention here, but calm rational professional advocacy backed up by facts always gets there first. It also helps if you provide them the answers or a method of mitigation as part of the package.
Simply standing on your flight bag and declaring you are not going to up with it put anymore, might make you feel better but will probably look a bit silly to those watching, who cant or dont know how to do anything about it anyway.
Since 9/11 and especially since the London bombings and the recent events that stretched to Brisbane we have lived in a different world. And if the Bali bombings weren't a wake up to Australians they should stay asleep.
I watched the 12 Days the Shook the World series recently with No1 being 9/11. It brought back vividly the horror of that day. Our time zone is +12 hours to NYK so morning events there are prime time TV here. I remember being on PPRuNe when the first post came up just minutes after the first airliner and going straight to the CNN website which like all the news sites were already bogging down to a standstill and hearing my wife call down from the Family room when the first live feed came up and later watching horrified as the second airliner came into view and hit. I remember being bolted to my chair for the next 24 hours watching the events unfold. Ringing/finding my three children scattered around the globe telling them to turn on their TV's and keep their heads down until further notice.
It's called assymetric war and there isn't any effective way to fight it but to try to plug all the holes we can.
It's not necessary to go into details here, but being a fan of the Follett, Ludlum, Clancy and LeCarre genre you only have to be able to read and comprehend at Grade 7 level to find all the techniques you need to defeat security measures. Every time the authorities have had a breakthrough it has been because some person or persons in the broader community has spoken up with a concern or observation. WE are always the first line of defence.
It occurs to me that we might be better served by being in the pax line doing a bit of our own profiling rather than removed from the process for a bit of a heads up on who is getting on our aircraft. I have spent a good deal of my life dealing with the public and it is not difficult to pick up the basic types and the general behaviour you can expect of the. It's not rocket science. Now I dont want to start WWIV but stand in say VB departures and then QF and tell me there isn't a difference in pax make up.
PPRuNe can never be anything but the canary in the mine and/or a rallying point.
It has always amazed me that for an intelligent group of workers, pilots aren't very smart at getting themselves organised or in the subtle use of the political process.
blow.n.gasket observes that his union mates are working their butts off on your behalf. Assisting them is where you should be directing your energy.
I have a little experience in advocacy with more than a little success. And it is always the very few who make the difference without the physical support of their brethren. If you want change this is a good starting point, but it wont happen unless you do something proactive and constructive about it.
Abusing screeners only makes you feel better it is otherwise a total waste of time with the really possibility of entering pratdom.
Gets it in one AND provides a starting point for you. As a last resort votes or the potential lack of are what gets attention here, but calm rational professional advocacy backed up by facts always gets there first. It also helps if you provide them the answers or a method of mitigation as part of the package.
Simply standing on your flight bag and declaring you are not going to up with it put anymore, might make you feel better but will probably look a bit silly to those watching, who cant or dont know how to do anything about it anyway.
Since 9/11 and especially since the London bombings and the recent events that stretched to Brisbane we have lived in a different world. And if the Bali bombings weren't a wake up to Australians they should stay asleep.
I watched the 12 Days the Shook the World series recently with No1 being 9/11. It brought back vividly the horror of that day. Our time zone is +12 hours to NYK so morning events there are prime time TV here. I remember being on PPRuNe when the first post came up just minutes after the first airliner and going straight to the CNN website which like all the news sites were already bogging down to a standstill and hearing my wife call down from the Family room when the first live feed came up and later watching horrified as the second airliner came into view and hit. I remember being bolted to my chair for the next 24 hours watching the events unfold. Ringing/finding my three children scattered around the globe telling them to turn on their TV's and keep their heads down until further notice.
It's called assymetric war and there isn't any effective way to fight it but to try to plug all the holes we can.
It's not necessary to go into details here, but being a fan of the Follett, Ludlum, Clancy and LeCarre genre you only have to be able to read and comprehend at Grade 7 level to find all the techniques you need to defeat security measures. Every time the authorities have had a breakthrough it has been because some person or persons in the broader community has spoken up with a concern or observation. WE are always the first line of defence.
It occurs to me that we might be better served by being in the pax line doing a bit of our own profiling rather than removed from the process for a bit of a heads up on who is getting on our aircraft. I have spent a good deal of my life dealing with the public and it is not difficult to pick up the basic types and the general behaviour you can expect of the. It's not rocket science. Now I dont want to start WWIV but stand in say VB departures and then QF and tell me there isn't a difference in pax make up.
PPRuNe can never be anything but the canary in the mine and/or a rallying point.
It has always amazed me that for an intelligent group of workers, pilots aren't very smart at getting themselves organised or in the subtle use of the political process.
blow.n.gasket observes that his union mates are working their butts off on your behalf. Assisting them is where you should be directing your energy.
I have a little experience in advocacy with more than a little success. And it is always the very few who make the difference without the physical support of their brethren. If you want change this is a good starting point, but it wont happen unless you do something proactive and constructive about it.
Abusing screeners only makes you feel better it is otherwise a total waste of time with the really possibility of entering pratdom.
Thread Starter
General opinion here is that the individual pilot achieved nothing by objecting to the securitar screening nazi.
I disagree with general opinion I am afraid, as collectively pilots have been walked all over on this issue, yet the actions of one or two individuals have brought the issue in to the media spot light - not the actions of the group or the benign representatives of the group, and this is why I say WELL DONE.
If all pilots, as individuals, objected strongly enough to the situation, then there would be an economic imperative to fix it and it would be fixed fast.
Right now the economic imperative is to not fix it and keep the work force under duress.
Question - if an unscreened pax enters a so called sterile area, don't they empty the area and re-screen it? Should not the same be the case if an engineer carrying tools of trade enters a so-called sterile aircraft containing pax and crew ?
Not being negative toward engineers here at all - just pointing out the simple truth that securitar isn't about securitar any more - it never was. It's about a self perpetuating system that serves no purpose other than to line the pockets of securitar nazis who just love to exercise personal power over ordinary people.
I for one actually don't believe that the level of securitar rubbish that exists currently is required - after all when was the last terrist attack on Australian soil - oh that's right there has never been one.
I am more scared of the people who remove our rights in the name of protecting us than I am of the potential threat of terrizm.
Now with the world economic leaders visiting Sydney, we can all be subject to random strip searches, arrests without cause, mobile phone systems being turned off, business shut down, restricted areas, and telecommunications monitoring without court order.
Yay for the brave new world.
Lastly, to explain,
SECURITAR is a South Park reference
TERRIZM is a George Bush reference
I disagree with general opinion I am afraid, as collectively pilots have been walked all over on this issue, yet the actions of one or two individuals have brought the issue in to the media spot light - not the actions of the group or the benign representatives of the group, and this is why I say WELL DONE.
If all pilots, as individuals, objected strongly enough to the situation, then there would be an economic imperative to fix it and it would be fixed fast.
Right now the economic imperative is to not fix it and keep the work force under duress.
Question - if an unscreened pax enters a so called sterile area, don't they empty the area and re-screen it? Should not the same be the case if an engineer carrying tools of trade enters a so-called sterile aircraft containing pax and crew ?
Not being negative toward engineers here at all - just pointing out the simple truth that securitar isn't about securitar any more - it never was. It's about a self perpetuating system that serves no purpose other than to line the pockets of securitar nazis who just love to exercise personal power over ordinary people.
I for one actually don't believe that the level of securitar rubbish that exists currently is required - after all when was the last terrist attack on Australian soil - oh that's right there has never been one.
I am more scared of the people who remove our rights in the name of protecting us than I am of the potential threat of terrizm.
Now with the world economic leaders visiting Sydney, we can all be subject to random strip searches, arrests without cause, mobile phone systems being turned off, business shut down, restricted areas, and telecommunications monitoring without court order.
Yay for the brave new world.
Lastly, to explain,
SECURITAR is a South Park reference
TERRIZM is a George Bush reference
As posted by someone else in Rumours and News ->
"I carry around a photo of me carrying the crash-axe from the cockpit, to show the security people."
Like that idea; show it to them, then tell them they're doing such a great job ....
</sarcasm>
"I carry around a photo of me carrying the crash-axe from the cockpit, to show the security people."
Like that idea; show it to them, then tell them they're doing such a great job ....
</sarcasm>
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Hmmmmm:
a qualified agreement, problem with that form of protest is we have no way of controlling the media outcome which given the current media shock horror mode is more likely to be negative to the cause than positive.
In general terms I would agree with you, but Australia is probably the most "enlightened" country with the most cynical people in the world in that regard.
yup you're standing in it.
Question you gotta ask yourself is how come a small percentage of 2,000,000 out of a 50,000,000 plus population can bring the sysytem to a halt. Probably the same relationship in the US and Australia.
South Park? compulsive and compulsory viewing.
"respect mah authoritah..sweet" http://respect.ytmnd.com/
Hmmmmm:
I disagree with general opinion I am afraid, as collectively pilots have been walked all over on this issue, yet the actions of one or two individuals have brought the issue in to the media spot light - not the actions of the group or the benign representatives of the group, and this is why I say WELL DONE.
problem with that form of protest is we have no way of controlling the media outcome which given the current media shock horror mode is more likely to be negative to the cause than positive.
I am more scared of the people who remove our rights in the name of protecting us than I am of the potential threat of terrizm.
Yay for the brave new world.
Question you gotta ask yourself is how come a small percentage of 2,000,000 out of a 50,000,000 plus population can bring the sysytem to a halt. Probably the same relationship in the US and Australia.
South Park? compulsive and compulsory viewing.
"respect mah authoritah..sweet" http://respect.ytmnd.com/
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What's to say the person in the pilot uniform is even a pilot? Different airlines have different ID tags so it can get confusing. They could go to the toilet and change into civvies and carry whatever weapon they had concealed straight on board.
Just take your shoes off, however I think there should be some slippers provided as those carpets are usually filthy.
Just take your shoes off, however I think there should be some slippers provided as those carpets are usually filthy.
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arkmark
Well said sir.
I'd add to your comments by saying that I believe that the current regime degrades safety by causing a fuming frustrated pilot to be at the controls, rather than some one who is relaxed and focused on the task at hand.
Well said sir.
I'd add to your comments by saying that I believe that the current regime degrades safety by causing a fuming frustrated pilot to be at the controls, rather than some one who is relaxed and focused on the task at hand.
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UrlocalANz....yeah mate!! that was good...very close to an F.Dagg job....but well done for sure
Can certainly sympathize with Joe Capts actions.....this subject,in other ways ,has been repeatly thrashed do death on this forum and others.....it will only get worse...and so will the consequences to those who decide to make "one man stands"....myself,I recieved a week off,without pay and a letter of warning in file(for 2 years) for a similar stand of action...
Our Union(and maybe an idea for you jokers)has presented the company with a list of complaints,with video footage(taken by pilots) of incidents(over 3 months) that have occured,and they are numerous,of the inconsistances,mayham,harrasment,and many others(you all know what I,m talking about)to be presented to airport officials,in the hope of getting a permanent crew line,that only crew go through....staffed and manned by those familiar with "Crew activities".....
We also have had a gutsfull of their antics,but as rules are rules,we are obliged to co-operate and graduate.....the only real way to change these issues is to have a strong case for change......we are hoping like faaaark it works....PB
Can certainly sympathize with Joe Capts actions.....this subject,in other ways ,has been repeatly thrashed do death on this forum and others.....it will only get worse...and so will the consequences to those who decide to make "one man stands"....myself,I recieved a week off,without pay and a letter of warning in file(for 2 years) for a similar stand of action...
Our Union(and maybe an idea for you jokers)has presented the company with a list of complaints,with video footage(taken by pilots) of incidents(over 3 months) that have occured,and they are numerous,of the inconsistances,mayham,harrasment,and many others(you all know what I,m talking about)to be presented to airport officials,in the hope of getting a permanent crew line,that only crew go through....staffed and manned by those familiar with "Crew activities".....
We also have had a gutsfull of their antics,but as rules are rules,we are obliged to co-operate and graduate.....the only real way to change these issues is to have a strong case for change......we are hoping like faaaark it works....PB