Physics removed from entry criteria by the Big Red (Merged)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wasn't going to bother but since aircraft made the effort... yeah a pretty good analogy there.
No, Jet A, you're right, you don't need a physics qual to fly an airplane but the Rat obviously liked to employ a standard of pilot who had a bit of a clue of something more than just how to calculate a profile or work the FMC.
Eventually we'll have a bunch of crew who can fly the 747 but have no technical idea how it manages to get into the air.
White man's magic?
Physics not important? Take a look at how many people think you can fly a 1 'G' barrel roll.
Now there's a good use for a vector diagram...
No, Jet A, you're right, you don't need a physics qual to fly an airplane but the Rat obviously liked to employ a standard of pilot who had a bit of a clue of something more than just how to calculate a profile or work the FMC.
Eventually we'll have a bunch of crew who can fly the 747 but have no technical idea how it manages to get into the air.
White man's magic?
Physics not important? Take a look at how many people think you can fly a 1 'G' barrel roll.
Now there's a good use for a vector diagram...
Metrosexual
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Enroute
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nahhhh, looks like I was wrong about the trolls.
" All those pilots without HSC level pass in Physics, bow down to the HSC 2unitA Physics I completed 20 years ago - high - priests - of - the - cockpit".
We're talking airline pilots here - not Test pilots - don't buy tickets on yourself.
" All those pilots without HSC level pass in Physics, bow down to the HSC 2unitA Physics I completed 20 years ago - high - priests - of - the - cockpit".
We're talking airline pilots here - not Test pilots - don't buy tickets on yourself.
Metrosexual
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Enroute
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scotty don't get me wrong - i value education - highly - but as appropriate.
So what - you understand the underlying physics in how an aeroplane gets airborne - big ****e. It ain't gonna help you when one of the wing falls off to know the equation & and principles involved in why the aeroplane is now falling out of the sky.
In my opinion, pilots would be better off having a degree in 'Situational Awareness' (if there was one available) rather than physics.
Then again, what ever trips your trigger..
BTW If Jethro Bodeen HAD got a Yr 12 education (he only got to 5th grade as i remember), he would have run the bank AND married Miss Jane - instead of trying to become an 'International Playboy'.
So what - you understand the underlying physics in how an aeroplane gets airborne - big ****e. It ain't gonna help you when one of the wing falls off to know the equation & and principles involved in why the aeroplane is now falling out of the sky.
In my opinion, pilots would be better off having a degree in 'Situational Awareness' (if there was one available) rather than physics.
Then again, what ever trips your trigger..
BTW If Jethro Bodeen HAD got a Yr 12 education (he only got to 5th grade as i remember), he would have run the bank AND married Miss Jane - instead of trying to become an 'International Playboy'.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sixth grade, mate. Sixth grade... obviously too many hours doing your physics homework and not enough quality hours after school watching the Hillbillies!!
I trust the Rat are guarding the standards through maintaining a requirement for a pass in year 12 English?
I trust the Rat are guarding the standards through maintaining a requirement for a pass in year 12 English?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
Whats the big deal? Damn dont be so precious, after all it wasn't really that hard to get when it was a requirement with the 2 week courses anyway. Anyone would think you needed a Physics degree!!
Bottums Up
Originally Posted by distracted cockroach
Coz everyone knows you need year 12 physics and a university degree to multiply by 3 to work out a descent profile, add up a fuel order and check a load sheet
It's kind of sad to fly with (mostly) youngsters who can't work out a 3 times profile because they can't manipulate basic maths. Can't add up the flight times in the trip log for the day. Who when asked by ATC, can you make FLxyy by time zz, have to reach for a calculator but, then have no idea if the answer is correct because they believe implicitly what it tells them and don't understand the concept of SISO.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney/Australia
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question. How many incidents/accidents are caused because a member of the flight crew had not completed year 12 physics?
Answer. None
To suggest that only a year 12 physics graduate is able to obtain the required level of skill necessary to be a competent and valuable member of a flight crew is ridiculous and flies in the face of contemporary flight training principles. The purpose of such requirements is merely to screen, and reduce the very large number of applicants to an acceptable level. The theory goes, if you can pass year 12 physics, then you won’t have any trouble with the ATPL’s (if a cadet) and HR can rest easy about selecting you.
To suggest it is anything else is a delusion. In fact, from a human factors perspective, the last thing you need in a flight crew member is a guy who completed year 12 physics a couple of years ago thinking through a situation and coming up with his own theory based on degraded high school knowledge.
If future airline pilots what to study something that would actually be useful to their flying career, may I suggest business management and psychology. Both will sever you far better in this business than physics!
Answer. None
To suggest that only a year 12 physics graduate is able to obtain the required level of skill necessary to be a competent and valuable member of a flight crew is ridiculous and flies in the face of contemporary flight training principles. The purpose of such requirements is merely to screen, and reduce the very large number of applicants to an acceptable level. The theory goes, if you can pass year 12 physics, then you won’t have any trouble with the ATPL’s (if a cadet) and HR can rest easy about selecting you.
To suggest it is anything else is a delusion. In fact, from a human factors perspective, the last thing you need in a flight crew member is a guy who completed year 12 physics a couple of years ago thinking through a situation and coming up with his own theory based on degraded high school knowledge.
If future airline pilots what to study something that would actually be useful to their flying career, may I suggest business management and psychology. Both will sever you far better in this business than physics!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: desert somewhere
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are many skills that are much more relevant to flying an aircraft than yr 12 physics - most of which could not be taught by any school or uni. Some people need to get over themselves.
People are suggesting that someone without yr 12 physics would have no idea why their aircraft is flying. What a load of crap. Last time I looked there was a subject dedicated to this at BAK, CPL and ATPL levels called aerodynamics.
Someone without Physics still has to pass the skills testing and an interview where plenty of technical questions will be thrown at them. The subjects were only there to cull applicants. How much would someone who did the subject 20 years ago remember anyway? Not much. I have yr 12 physics to by the way.
People are suggesting that someone without yr 12 physics would have no idea why their aircraft is flying. What a load of crap. Last time I looked there was a subject dedicated to this at BAK, CPL and ATPL levels called aerodynamics.
Someone without Physics still has to pass the skills testing and an interview where plenty of technical questions will be thrown at them. The subjects were only there to cull applicants. How much would someone who did the subject 20 years ago remember anyway? Not much. I have yr 12 physics to by the way.
I can assure you that virtually every major airline in the US had dropped the degree requirement by 1999. AIRinc can tell anyone wanting to know what each majors 'minimums' are in the US.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: desert somewhere
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don’t think they are lowering the bar - although at first glance it might seem that way. I think they have made the change to prevent lowering the bar.
They are now allowing people to apply with bachelor degrees who may not have done physics at yr 12. It will also allow more people with industry experience to apply. If they don’t make a change they will lose this experience to Cathay, Virgin, and Jetstar etc.
Would you rather they kept the requirement and were forced to hire from a small number of less than ideal 500hr hopefuls who hold the bare minimum Maths, Physics and English - or drop the requirement and asses a larger number of applicants on a case by case basis (many of whom may hold degrees and/or have a significant amount of industry experience)?
They simply need a larger pool of applicants to choose from. Just because they dropped the physics requirement doesn’t mean that you will get in with just 500hrs, maths and English!
They are now allowing people to apply with bachelor degrees who may not have done physics at yr 12. It will also allow more people with industry experience to apply. If they don’t make a change they will lose this experience to Cathay, Virgin, and Jetstar etc.
Would you rather they kept the requirement and were forced to hire from a small number of less than ideal 500hr hopefuls who hold the bare minimum Maths, Physics and English - or drop the requirement and asses a larger number of applicants on a case by case basis (many of whom may hold degrees and/or have a significant amount of industry experience)?
They simply need a larger pool of applicants to choose from. Just because they dropped the physics requirement doesn’t mean that you will get in with just 500hrs, maths and English!
Some years ago a mate of mine did some icus on the bank runs for a grade 2 from Bankstown. No pressure, no check at the end, just lets go out and fly and learn the ropes.
After a week, he was left in total amazement as said individual was not, even after all that time, able to sucesssfuly calculate a descent profile in the Baron! I know it sounds unbeleivable, but true story.
Less than 3 months later this "pilot" was accepted by Qantas, and is now a serving 400 F/O!
Had the right credentials though, Nepotism, Cronyism, HSC physics, but surprisingly no ASIR's. (That I am aware of)
After a week, he was left in total amazement as said individual was not, even after all that time, able to sucesssfuly calculate a descent profile in the Baron! I know it sounds unbeleivable, but true story.
Less than 3 months later this "pilot" was accepted by Qantas, and is now a serving 400 F/O!
Had the right credentials though, Nepotism, Cronyism, HSC physics, but surprisingly no ASIR's. (That I am aware of)
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 18th Jun 2007 at 05:50. Reason: spelling
We really need to get over this physics issue!
What's needed is some mental dexterity with simple maths...as Capt Claret suggested.
Chuck out all these overly complex educational systems such as OBE,and CBT......and bring back times tables and mental arithmetic at Kindy and Year 1 levels.
Yup, shows my age, but I can still add up the restaurant bill from upside down and get half close....even after a few reds !!
Wish some of my students could get that close on a flight plan...ha, ha
happy days,
What's needed is some mental dexterity with simple maths...as Capt Claret suggested.
Chuck out all these overly complex educational systems such as OBE,and CBT......and bring back times tables and mental arithmetic at Kindy and Year 1 levels.
Yup, shows my age, but I can still add up the restaurant bill from upside down and get half close....even after a few reds !!
Wish some of my students could get that close on a flight plan...ha, ha
happy days,
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Understanding of vector diagrams is a must, otherwise I just can't see how filling out the decklog to within the required 5 minute tolerance can be achieved, I just can't see any other way. Gotta say I go through a hell of a lot of yellow pads.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right on the money poteroo. It stands out to me that my dad, who finished school in year 10 in the 50's will put numbers together in his head quicker than I can punch them into the calculator. This is true not only for me but others of my same age. The system at some point changed and mental arithmetic became less important. I personally think it’s related to introduction of calculators. And the even younger than I struggle with spelling and that one I think is thanks to spell check.
I've done high school and university level physics. I'd swap both any day for the mental arithmetic skills that my dad has.
I've done high school and university level physics. I'd swap both any day for the mental arithmetic skills that my dad has.
Real world physics
Cute Hostie A is standing 1.7m directly in front of Cute Hostie B. Protective Male Flight Attendant C is standing 1.3m from Cute Hostie B at an angle of 45* from Cute Hostie A. Use a vector diagram to determine at what angle Drunk Pilot D should approach Cute Hostie B to minimise my chances of getting slugged by Protective Male Flight Attendant C. 
All jokes aside, for now, I think the reason behind this is twofold:
1) There simply isn't the supply of pilots that there has been in the past so yep, when you can't fill the quota based on the current requirements lower the requirements.
and
2) my cynical suspicion - another step in the dumbing down of the industry, "Geez, these pilot types don't even have to know high school physics! How hard can the job be?"
All jokes aside, for now, I think the reason behind this is twofold:
1) There simply isn't the supply of pilots that there has been in the past so yep, when you can't fill the quota based on the current requirements lower the requirements.
and
2) my cynical suspicion - another step in the dumbing down of the industry, "Geez, these pilot types don't even have to know high school physics! How hard can the job be?"
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, yes, you are all quite correct: of course physics does not really come into it when actually flying an airplane, even a Qwantas jumbo which requires near god-like powers.
However when as previously stated a significant number of professional pilots think it is possible to perform a 1'G' barrel roll then there is something wrong.
If I was the Qwantas recruitment guru, I'd simply replace the blanket physics requirement with a question on the above topic and let the applicant talk himself into or out of the job based on what kind of answer he dreams up to that quantum physics brain-buster.
A 1'G' barrel roll - Jesus wept.
PS: Notice how we're all carefully avoiding the topic of spelling, grammar and punctuation which would see even more pilots excluded from the running...
However when as previously stated a significant number of professional pilots think it is possible to perform a 1'G' barrel roll then there is something wrong.
If I was the Qwantas recruitment guru, I'd simply replace the blanket physics requirement with a question on the above topic and let the applicant talk himself into or out of the job based on what kind of answer he dreams up to that quantum physics brain-buster.
A 1'G' barrel roll - Jesus wept.
PS: Notice how we're all carefully avoiding the topic of spelling, grammar and punctuation which would see even more pilots excluded from the running...