J* all isn't as it seems
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Question from Condition lever...
"Was AO A big hit"...
Well,that depends on you you are talking to.It appears however,that J* is not.
The J* model is a big hit with backpackers and those who would normally take the train or bus.
QF management under Menadue understood the Japanese market but since then have tried to cut corners and we are now seeing the result.
One thing the Japanese market is not is the J*/ backpacker model.
"Was AO A big hit"...
Well,that depends on you you are talking to.It appears however,that J* is not.
The J* model is a big hit with backpackers and those who would normally take the train or bus.
QF management under Menadue understood the Japanese market but since then have tried to cut corners and we are now seeing the result.
One thing the Japanese market is not is the J*/ backpacker model.
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Judging the amount of spin doctoring by JQ management regarding the piss poor loads,the public might just be deciding that the AO model was a damn sight better than the Coles/Cafeteria budget brigade model over longer distances!
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The very interesting thing about the "model" is that it leaves the genius of dwarf1 and dwarf2 with nowhere to go...
Yield is bugger all, service is non existent..Where are they going to go if the travelling public fail to endorse their tacky excuse for an airline? There is not much to sacrifice in order to hold the market.
Me thinks the fallacy will be proven unviable before too much longer.
Yield is bugger all, service is non existent..Where are they going to go if the travelling public fail to endorse their tacky excuse for an airline? There is not much to sacrifice in order to hold the market.
Me thinks the fallacy will be proven unviable before too much longer.
The CNS-SIN sectors are flown by Jetstar Asia and they are not crapstar.
The cabin crew want to serve, are happy to serve and do a great job. The food is top notch.
Don't bag something you have never tried. The feedback from the pax is always great.
The cabin crew want to serve, are happy to serve and do a great job. The food is top notch.
Don't bag something you have never tried. The feedback from the pax is always great.
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Ahhhh.... the three wise men (or was that monkeys???), lowerlobe, max autobrakes and QFinsider.
Never one to let facts get in the way of a good story.... perhaps you guys don't (or can't) read news papers so for your benefit....
Jetstar star of Qantas Group
Airline Code [JST] View More Jetstar News
(CAPA) Qantas released traffic figures for 2006/07 up to May-07, in which it showed that Jetstar flew 7.0 million passengers to the end of May-07, compared to 5.26 million in 2005/06 - a 33% increase.
In contrast, Qantas domestic passengers rose 3.5%, QantasLink passengers rose 16.8%, and Qantas International passengers dropped 6.3%.
Revenue Passenger Kilometres (RPKs) rose 7.5% for the Group, but by 67.4% for Jetstar, 5.4% for Qantas Domestic, 20.7% for QantasLink and by just 1.6% for Qantas International.
Date posted: 06-Jul-07
Never one to let facts get in the way of a good story.... perhaps you guys don't (or can't) read news papers so for your benefit....
Jetstar star of Qantas Group
Airline Code [JST] View More Jetstar News
(CAPA) Qantas released traffic figures for 2006/07 up to May-07, in which it showed that Jetstar flew 7.0 million passengers to the end of May-07, compared to 5.26 million in 2005/06 - a 33% increase.
In contrast, Qantas domestic passengers rose 3.5%, QantasLink passengers rose 16.8%, and Qantas International passengers dropped 6.3%.
Revenue Passenger Kilometres (RPKs) rose 7.5% for the Group, but by 67.4% for Jetstar, 5.4% for Qantas Domestic, 20.7% for QantasLink and by just 1.6% for Qantas International.
Date posted: 06-Jul-07
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No doubt those growth figures include all the QF codesharing flights with Jetstar that we seem to do all the time????
That would be a pretty fast way to increase your figures wouldnt it....!
That would be a pretty fast way to increase your figures wouldnt it....!
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Condition Lever...what is the point of your post?
I was referring to the decline in Japanese pax on J*.Here is a news article on J* and it's Japanese market....
"THE Qantas Group is losing money on its once lucrative Japanese services after the high dollar has forced tourists to abandon Australia as a destination.
The drop in Japanese tourists has prompted Jetstar to drop prices on outbound fares in an attempt to stimulate travel on its routes"
Although mini Darths explanation that this was because of the exchange rate is a joke.The Japanese haver never worried about the exchange rate against the US $ so why all of a sudden would they be concerned about the Australian$.
Could it be that they are not so happy with QF being replaced with a LCC?
I was referring to the decline in Japanese pax on J*.Here is a news article on J* and it's Japanese market....
"THE Qantas Group is losing money on its once lucrative Japanese services after the high dollar has forced tourists to abandon Australia as a destination.
The drop in Japanese tourists has prompted Jetstar to drop prices on outbound fares in an attempt to stimulate travel on its routes"
Although mini Darths explanation that this was because of the exchange rate is a joke.The Japanese haver never worried about the exchange rate against the US $ so why all of a sudden would they be concerned about the Australian$.
Could it be that they are not so happy with QF being replaced with a LCC?
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The CNS-SIN sectors are flown by Jetstar Asia and they are not crapstar.
The cabin crew want to serve, are happy to serve and do a great job. The food is top notch.
Don't bag something you have never tried. The feedback from the pax is always great.
The cabin crew want to serve, are happy to serve and do a great job. The food is top notch.
Don't bag something you have never tried. The feedback from the pax is always great.
QF mainline used to charge $1050 return.
JQ is way overpriced on this route. DRW-SIN should be in line with DRW-MEL/BNE, which is around $200 each way. Same distance.
CL
You seem to have forgotten that Jetstar was given routes previously established and flown by mainline - they did not have to actively seek market share (a very difficult task which Tiger will have to do). The way that management pronounce Jetstar a "runaway success" is simply spin aimed at those members of the public who have no idea of what is happening in the airline industry. Jetstar is simply a vehicle designed to make it difficult for other carriers to enter the market and to undermine QF mainline staff terms and conditions. From perusing your posts, it appears that you have not yet grasped the reality of the situation - you and your JQ peers are being used by Dixon to undermine the pilot profession.
You seem to have forgotten that Jetstar was given routes previously established and flown by mainline - they did not have to actively seek market share (a very difficult task which Tiger will have to do). The way that management pronounce Jetstar a "runaway success" is simply spin aimed at those members of the public who have no idea of what is happening in the airline industry. Jetstar is simply a vehicle designed to make it difficult for other carriers to enter the market and to undermine QF mainline staff terms and conditions. From perusing your posts, it appears that you have not yet grasped the reality of the situation - you and your JQ peers are being used by Dixon to undermine the pilot profession.
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GB
Why is it that the catch cry of undermining mainline's T&C is always rolled out in any discussion. Didn't this happen when mainline crews agreed to fly under AO's T&C. Or perhaps you could discuss the pros and cons with the 50 or so of your mates that applied to come to J* under the MOU.
Cant say that either of those two issues have done much for your T&C.
Why is it that the catch cry of undermining mainline's T&C is always rolled out in any discussion. Didn't this happen when mainline crews agreed to fly under AO's T&C. Or perhaps you could discuss the pros and cons with the 50 or so of your mates that applied to come to J* under the MOU.
Cant say that either of those two issues have done much for your T&C.
CL
Nobody in mainline were happy with the accepting lower conditions when AO was being established. The threat was made that outside pilots would be used if efficiency gains were not made by mainline pilots (no pilot shortage at that time - quite the opposite in fact). Extensive negotiations resulted in a deal whereby scheduling and accomodation savings were agreed but essentially the salaries remainded close to mainline levels. This had a significantly lessor effect of lowering conditions than when the IPG agreed to Dixon's conditions for Jetstar Domestic (and subsequently Jetstar International which was more amazing because on this occasion there was no loaded gun aimed at your heads).
WRT the mainline pilots who applied to transfer to Jetstar under the MOU, the majority of mainline pilots urged these pilots to take a long term view of their profession and withdraw their application. The small number who have transferred may end up finding that the desire for a command has resulted in a poorer lifestyle (wrt spouse and children).
QF management will not allow any more transfers under the MOU as they cannot afford to lose any more pilots - they know that they are unlikely to get all the pilots needed over the next three years and that is on full mainline Certified Agreement (EBA) salary and T's & C's.
Nobody in mainline were happy with the accepting lower conditions when AO was being established. The threat was made that outside pilots would be used if efficiency gains were not made by mainline pilots (no pilot shortage at that time - quite the opposite in fact). Extensive negotiations resulted in a deal whereby scheduling and accomodation savings were agreed but essentially the salaries remainded close to mainline levels. This had a significantly lessor effect of lowering conditions than when the IPG agreed to Dixon's conditions for Jetstar Domestic (and subsequently Jetstar International which was more amazing because on this occasion there was no loaded gun aimed at your heads).
WRT the mainline pilots who applied to transfer to Jetstar under the MOU, the majority of mainline pilots urged these pilots to take a long term view of their profession and withdraw their application. The small number who have transferred may end up finding that the desire for a command has resulted in a poorer lifestyle (wrt spouse and children).
QF management will not allow any more transfers under the MOU as they cannot afford to lose any more pilots - they know that they are unlikely to get all the pilots needed over the next three years and that is on full mainline Certified Agreement (EBA) salary and T's & C's.
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Condition Lever...it is true that AO was J* Mk1 but it is not only tech crew who have had a negative effect on their T & C's.
J* has lowered them for Cabin crew,ground staff,check in etc....
If your happy with that, it does not mean we are...
J* has lowered them for Cabin crew,ground staff,check in etc....
If your happy with that, it does not mean we are...
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Slight thread drift I know.
A mate sent this to me from one of his mates .
Any idea as to what is going on here?
Any answers to the questions below greatly appreciated.
if you could pass this onto him on my behalf. The travel agent is saying that Qantas is not honouring my flight from Honolulu on the ?th Oct - flight QF 4 (even though they have had the booking for 4 months) and I wanted to check the veracity of their claims below before I start getting medieval with them!!
I have been in contact with Qantas over the last few weeks in regards to our group flights. Due to severe Qantas overbooking problems Qantas are not honoring any of our group bookings other than our original dates of October. I know due to work you needed to return straight after the race. I can still get a flight on the ?th but the price will increase by over $800 to return on this date..
Due to the introduction of Jetstar to Honolulu, Qantas now service 767
planes rather than the 747 jumbos to and from Honolulu. In turn there are
now not as many seats and they are not honoring the last fares as it is not viable for them. They have advised me as it is the flight on the ?th with Qantas is oversold.
I wanted to give you a few options before proceeding. One is to fly with
Qantas on the ?rd as you have booked at the moment. Returning with Jetstar on the ?th arriving home on the ?th.
The other option is to fly with Air Canada (as below). With the below
option however it would mean an overnight in Honolulu due to the late
arrival of the flight. Honolulu Airport Hotel has rooms for the night for
$230 per room¦
QF 408 ?OCT MELSYD 0700 0820
AC 34 ?OCT SYDHNL 1000 2350 (Arr: ?Oct)
AC 33 ?OCT HNLSYD 0010 0650 (Arr: ?Oct)
QF 417 ?OCT SYDMEL 0830 1000
Please let me know your thoughts and I will get back to you with new prices
and information!
My sincere apologies for this. I have been speaking to Qantas now for two
weeks trying to resolve this but have not had any success.
A mate sent this to me from one of his mates .
Any idea as to what is going on here?
Any answers to the questions below greatly appreciated.
if you could pass this onto him on my behalf. The travel agent is saying that Qantas is not honouring my flight from Honolulu on the ?th Oct - flight QF 4 (even though they have had the booking for 4 months) and I wanted to check the veracity of their claims below before I start getting medieval with them!!
I have been in contact with Qantas over the last few weeks in regards to our group flights. Due to severe Qantas overbooking problems Qantas are not honoring any of our group bookings other than our original dates of October. I know due to work you needed to return straight after the race. I can still get a flight on the ?th but the price will increase by over $800 to return on this date..
Due to the introduction of Jetstar to Honolulu, Qantas now service 767
planes rather than the 747 jumbos to and from Honolulu. In turn there are
now not as many seats and they are not honoring the last fares as it is not viable for them. They have advised me as it is the flight on the ?th with Qantas is oversold.
I wanted to give you a few options before proceeding. One is to fly with
Qantas on the ?rd as you have booked at the moment. Returning with Jetstar on the ?th arriving home on the ?th.
The other option is to fly with Air Canada (as below). With the below
option however it would mean an overnight in Honolulu due to the late
arrival of the flight. Honolulu Airport Hotel has rooms for the night for
$230 per room¦
QF 408 ?OCT MELSYD 0700 0820
AC 34 ?OCT SYDHNL 1000 2350 (Arr: ?Oct)
AC 33 ?OCT HNLSYD 0010 0650 (Arr: ?Oct)
QF 417 ?OCT SYDMEL 0830 1000
Please let me know your thoughts and I will get back to you with new prices
and information!
My sincere apologies for this. I have been speaking to Qantas now for two
weeks trying to resolve this but have not had any success.
Nunc est bibendum
...the majority of mainline pilots urged these pilots to take a long term view of their profession and withdraw their application.
Condition Lever, you're ecstatic to be employed by J* and I'm thrilled to be employed by QF. I protect both my company and the wider 'group' against unfair criticism and I'd expect that you would too. What I also do is have wide eyes and be realistic to see that not everything reported by either my company is accurate. A lot is 'spin' and a lot is grand standing. In recent days I've spotted about three 'shots across the bow' of AIPA with respect to EBA negotiations. I've also watched our CEO try and do the same thing to Boeing WRT the 787-10. Personally I don't think Boeing will listen and that Geoff just looks like doing his 'usual' thing. However it's important to look through the information (like we look through the flight director at times) to see the reality of what's going on. Most of your comments indicate that you're not a dill, let go of the prejudice and ensure that you at least acknowledge that not all that is 'spun' about J* is fair dinkum.
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Condition Lever.
That reminds me of when Jetstar came out with fanfare about how in just a few short months (after they started), they had gotten 7% of the market. Well done. How much did impulse have?
How much capacity have Jetstar increased in the last 6 months?
It's ok. It will pass.
That reminds me of when Jetstar came out with fanfare about how in just a few short months (after they started), they had gotten 7% of the market. Well done. How much did impulse have?
How much capacity have Jetstar increased in the last 6 months?
It's ok. It will pass.
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my thoughts / your reply
how does J* measure market share. eg.currently J* codeshares on the QF 743 on the on the SYD/MEL -PER city flyer returns. QF staff can access only QF bookings but are locked out of the J* bookings. now everyone on the city flyer gets a meal and free beer/wine. and so does the "el chepo" traveller booked on J*. now, can any qf manager explain the logic behind that. a no frills ticket and then get the same treatment as Qf pax. talk about subsidising and helping the "little airline". would be interesting to see what percentage they claim as market share and how much qf gets paid from J*. as usual a big coverup and co*kup.
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CL you are clearly clouded. Take a rest. There was no inference from any post about the staff or anyone in particular. The post refers to the flawed model.
I am glad I work where I do, I know we have problems in mainline, there are service failures, the problem is that the market does not readily accept J*.
Whilst it may work on shorter flights, it is suffering longer haul.
The non disclosure and one track strategy to undermine the mainline product, and more specfically the desire to undermine the mainline terms and conditions is not sustainable. The J* product is tacky. Cabin staff have little to work with. AND the travelling public at least in this market don't like it!
Take a chip off your shoulder and have a look at the post. It refers to the product and the strategy not the people.
Ay least the provisions relating to the Sorbane-Oxley Act style transparency will allow those with a financial eye to look more closely at just how well J* does and more importantly what it actually pays for the infrastructure borrowed from its parent!
I am glad I work where I do, I know we have problems in mainline, there are service failures, the problem is that the market does not readily accept J*.
Whilst it may work on shorter flights, it is suffering longer haul.
The non disclosure and one track strategy to undermine the mainline product, and more specfically the desire to undermine the mainline terms and conditions is not sustainable. The J* product is tacky. Cabin staff have little to work with. AND the travelling public at least in this market don't like it!
Take a chip off your shoulder and have a look at the post. It refers to the product and the strategy not the people.
Ay least the provisions relating to the Sorbane-Oxley Act style transparency will allow those with a financial eye to look more closely at just how well J* does and more importantly what it actually pays for the infrastructure borrowed from its parent!
Yep....33% increase is just a reflection of capacity!
The whinging about the Japanese market from JQ management is just the start.
I love how they blame the aussie for it not working. The Japanese have no problem spending the money if they like the product.......
The whinging about the Japanese market from JQ management is just the start.
I love how they blame the aussie for it not working. The Japanese have no problem spending the money if they like the product.......