Bad news for AO cabin crew in Cairns?
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Lowerlobe, Why ask the question about band payments. I'm sure you are fully aware that about 4 -5 years ago, band payments were changed for all new recruits/entrants to short haul. They still get a band payment, but I'm not exactly sure how it is structured.
And apart from receiving different band payments, new flight attendants in short haul are on the same pay structure as everyone else. Brand new flight attendants start on 1st year pay, those transferring from long haul go to the highest rate of pay regardless of whether they have been flying for 2 years or 20 years in long haul. (This is so they are not financially disadvantaged by our lower increments of pay).
Anyway it is pointless in us arguing the merits of the short haul award. I'm sure that the cabin crew in AO have been given a copy of the short haul award, pay and conditions and can make their own fully informed decision as to whether its good or not.
With regard to VR. As you know it was offered late last year in short haul. There were many FA's who applied for it, and missed out as there were not enough places. Anyone with less than about 16 years flying didn't get it. Many were very upset. Now that it has been offered again, apparently there are once again many applicants. We are getting 300 AO flight attendants which is great news as it allows a long awaited progression in seniority for everyone. I don't know how many will be made redundant, but I wouldn't imagine that it would be anywhere near 300. Probably more like 50 - 100. All of the people who take redundancy will be those who really want it. Nobody in short haul will have forced redundancy. A win/win situation all round!!
And apart from receiving different band payments, new flight attendants in short haul are on the same pay structure as everyone else. Brand new flight attendants start on 1st year pay, those transferring from long haul go to the highest rate of pay regardless of whether they have been flying for 2 years or 20 years in long haul. (This is so they are not financially disadvantaged by our lower increments of pay).
Anyway it is pointless in us arguing the merits of the short haul award. I'm sure that the cabin crew in AO have been given a copy of the short haul award, pay and conditions and can make their own fully informed decision as to whether its good or not.
With regard to VR. As you know it was offered late last year in short haul. There were many FA's who applied for it, and missed out as there were not enough places. Anyone with less than about 16 years flying didn't get it. Many were very upset. Now that it has been offered again, apparently there are once again many applicants. We are getting 300 AO flight attendants which is great news as it allows a long awaited progression in seniority for everyone. I don't know how many will be made redundant, but I wouldn't imagine that it would be anywhere near 300. Probably more like 50 - 100. All of the people who take redundancy will be those who really want it. Nobody in short haul will have forced redundancy. A win/win situation all round!!
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Wasn't the bands payment change an idea of the S/H FAAA and gave less money to those transferring from L/H compared to those already working in S/H?
How many MAM's are being trained when you are offering VR to permanent crew?
Hardly a recipe for career progression as you put it.Then again I can understand why S/H are so happy about this situation or career progression as you put it.
It will be nice to transfer up to sunny Cairns when you get the chance because of this base creation won't it?
How many MAM's are being trained when you are offering VR to permanent crew?
Hardly a recipe for career progression as you put it.Then again I can understand why S/H are so happy about this situation or career progression as you put it.
It will be nice to transfer up to sunny Cairns when you get the chance because of this base creation won't it?
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Originally Posted by lowerlobe
Wasn't the bands payment change an idea of the S/H FAAA and gave less money to those transferring from L/H compared to those already working in S/H?
Section 45.4 refers to "All new entrants to the pay scales in Part G after 2 May 2003...".
At the time, L/H transfers probably made up the majority of those affected by this rule, but I think we can see now with the AO situation, that it was far from being directed at one specific group.
In my opinion, it resembles a B-scale, something which Mr Negativity even embraces for L/H.
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Bingo Twiggs your a genius...
"L/H transfers probably made up the majority of those affected by this rule".....
You think !!!!!!
The idea that it was a "B" pay scale has never occured to anyone else.
The clause in your office manual does not specifically mention L/H in this case probably because that would come under discrimination.
"but I think we can see now with the AO situation, that it was far from being directed at one specific group"
Twiggsy I imagine that at the time the idea was concieved of by either the company and/or the S/H FAAA the concept of AO shutting down and becoming a S/H base would be nil....those in the office can't even see next week let alone a few years ahead.
By the way I'm still waiting for an answer about the MEL/NRT flight !!!!
"L/H transfers probably made up the majority of those affected by this rule".....
You think !!!!!!
The idea that it was a "B" pay scale has never occured to anyone else.
The clause in your office manual does not specifically mention L/H in this case probably because that would come under discrimination.
"but I think we can see now with the AO situation, that it was far from being directed at one specific group"
Twiggsy I imagine that at the time the idea was concieved of by either the company and/or the S/H FAAA the concept of AO shutting down and becoming a S/H base would be nil....those in the office can't even see next week let alone a few years ahead.
By the way I'm still waiting for an answer about the MEL/NRT flight !!!!
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Twiggs, you are right. The short haul EBA does not make any reference to LH transfers. I believe that all conditions governing transfers are covered in a separate agreement. However, it is correct that anyone transferring from long haul goes onto 10th year pay (being the highest increment of FA pay). This is regardless of how many years they have been flying long haul.
Lowerlobe, I think the company were the ones who instigated the band payments change. In the early 90's short haul did not have bands. We were all paid a flat 10% shift loading to compensate for working unsociable hours. Band payments were introduced to combat sick leave on weekends, and to make a fairer system for juniors who were always the ones working the unsociable hours. Coopers and Lybrand formulated the band payments system. It was not intended to cost the company any extra money, but simply to make a fairer distribution of the money paid in shift loading. Unfortunately over the years, it was determined that it was in fact costing the company a lot more that paying a flat rate. Therefore they wanted to go back to the old system. The company presented this in an EBA and refused to negotiate on this point. The union were able to save band payments for existing members, but the company held firm that band payments would not be paid to new entrants. The union therefore compensated by negotiating 13% instead of the old 10%.
And Lowerlobe I can't see myself moving to sunny Cairns, but who knows hey!!
Lowerlobe, I think the company were the ones who instigated the band payments change. In the early 90's short haul did not have bands. We were all paid a flat 10% shift loading to compensate for working unsociable hours. Band payments were introduced to combat sick leave on weekends, and to make a fairer system for juniors who were always the ones working the unsociable hours. Coopers and Lybrand formulated the band payments system. It was not intended to cost the company any extra money, but simply to make a fairer distribution of the money paid in shift loading. Unfortunately over the years, it was determined that it was in fact costing the company a lot more that paying a flat rate. Therefore they wanted to go back to the old system. The company presented this in an EBA and refused to negotiate on this point. The union were able to save band payments for existing members, but the company held firm that band payments would not be paid to new entrants. The union therefore compensated by negotiating 13% instead of the old 10%.
And Lowerlobe I can't see myself moving to sunny Cairns, but who knows hey!!
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Cheers call button and thanks for the extra clarification.
Mr Negativity, stop asking pilots questions about why some of their allowances are less than ours when it has been highlighted many times by the FAAA that we were successful in negotiating the annual allowance review whereby the AIPA were not.
Mr Negativity, stop asking pilots questions about why some of their allowances are less than ours when it has been highlighted many times by the FAAA that we were successful in negotiating the annual allowance review whereby the AIPA were not.
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twiggsy..
A techy raised the issue first .......
By the way still waiting for an answer to my question !!!!!!!!!
call button..Whoever raised the idea of different bands the S/H union and it's members voted on it!!!!!
I think Cairns is great but it is a long way from the other cities though!!!!
A techy raised the issue first .......
By the way still waiting for an answer to my question !!!!!!!!!
call button..Whoever raised the idea of different bands the S/H union and it's members voted on it!!!!!
I think Cairns is great but it is a long way from the other cities though!!!!
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Do you not read Mr Negative?
Interesting to note that for those who choose to work band 1 hours, ie Mon-Fri daytime, the 13% will actually be more than the band 1 payment, and probably more than band 2 and 3 as well.
Originally Posted by call button
The company presented this in an EBA and refused to negotiate on this point.
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Do you not read Mr Negative?....
I'm thinking the same about you twiggsy....How many times have I asked you the question about the MEL/NRT trip?
Just like the rest in the office you don't like answering questions do you?
I'm thinking the same about you twiggsy....How many times have I asked you the question about the MEL/NRT trip?
Just like the rest in the office you don't like answering questions do you?
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The fact is this, Mr Negativity.
You ask questions when the answer is already easily accessible by you by making a little effort and reading.
Unfortunately for you, your assumption that I work in the office is totally false, and it is just confounding you that I know more than you just by listening and reading.
You ask questions when the answer is already easily accessible by you by making a little effort and reading.
Unfortunately for you, your assumption that I work in the office is totally false, and it is just confounding you that I know more than you just by listening and reading.
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I think thats fair enough Raverflaver even though there is no where else ..
I was disappointed though at the excuse given for not answering the question but it confirms my suspicions.No point continuing then......case closed...
I was disappointed though at the excuse given for not answering the question but it confirms my suspicions.No point continuing then......case closed...
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So back to AO...........
Whats everyone going to do??????
I am hoping that most people get what they want (I know there are limited positions tho). I guess for those who want to go 'south' but were in later ground schools, there is always the opportunity to go on the transfer list.'
I am happy to be staying in Cairns and couldn't have asked for a better outcome.
Good luck
Whats everyone going to do??????
I am hoping that most people get what they want (I know there are limited positions tho). I guess for those who want to go 'south' but were in later ground schools, there is always the opportunity to go on the transfer list.'
I am happy to be staying in Cairns and couldn't have asked for a better outcome.
Good luck
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I understand pay will vary depending on base, years of service ect, however can any current junior QF SH crew give me an avgerage of what you take home per week, clear. PM me if you like.
Many thanks
Raverflaver
Many thanks
Raverflaver
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The are only preliminary indications but they sound good!! There was alot of information in those packs thankfully. It all sounds very exciting! Im just wondering what the transfer lists are like and if many people port swap? I love cairns, but its not forever for me 
We are so lucky!!
There was alot of information in those packs thankfully. It all sounds very exciting! Im just wondering what the transfer lists are like and if many people port swap? I love cairns, but its not forever for me We are so lucky!!
