Bad news for AO cabin crew in Cairns?
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the FAAA website -
Qantas has decided to create a Qantas Short Haul Base in Cairns and to allow AO crew to transfer to the newly created Base as permanent Short Haul cabin crew under the provisions of the Qantas Short Haul EBA.
Qantas has decided to create a Qantas Short Haul Base in Cairns and to allow AO crew to transfer to the newly created Base as permanent Short Haul cabin crew under the provisions of the Qantas Short Haul EBA.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Info session
Just came back from the info session. We all get full time permanent positions, not MAM, just to clarify. The only thing we lose out of this change is our AO joining date, the date does not transfer across. So basicly our QF staff travel will start ticking from zero again, and if you get to transfer to other bases, you are on the bottom of the list for bidding. It's a shame, but i'd rather be losing that than my job, can't complain more. I guess all the good service we provided really count, couln't hope for any better outcome. Oh, and some cabin managers will miss out, as they only need 34 CSMs, current AO CMs will need to go through a selection process, should they not be chosen, they'll become FA.
Happy flying everyone!!!
Happy flying everyone!!!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: In a box, ready for shipping...
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to correct you, YONLY, but you've been employed by AO for 4 1/2 years. Qantas Group means very little with regard to something like start dates.
The employment relationship (AO vs Qantas Short Haul) is very distinctive, in that you're being offered the opportunity to VOLUNTARILY transfer into S/H, having been employed by Australian all this time, under their EBA. On that basis, you're agreeing to transfer to S/H on their conditions (that being, you lose your start date for the purposes of seniority, as your start date has to reflect the day you join Qantas Short Haul under their EBA).
The ONLY exception to this rule are those airlines covered by Career Progression - Eastern, Sunstate & Jetstar Domestic - provisions which have been negotiated as part of their EBA's over many years. Jetstar crew only have access to CP on the basis that Impulse's EBA 2 included CP as part of the negotiations, which was rolled over when QFLink (Impulse) became JQ.
Unless your AO EBA has any means of transferring seniority/start dates to elsewhere in the QF Group, you would more than likely not succeed in your bid. On that note, it would be difficult to include anything like this in any current EBA, as you can't include third parties in an agreement (in this case, Qantas)...But I digress...
Your situation is no different to other QF staff (Qantas ground staff for example) wanting to transfer to a permanent flying job in S/H or even L/H. Whilst their years of service are recognised for LSL purposes, start date for seniority reverts to the day they become employees of Qantas Short Haul under the Short Haul EBA.
Whilst I can understand your frustration with the idea of losing 'seniority', you are still maintaining LSL for the purposes of years of service. At the same time, your loss of years of service for Staff Travel is no different to the Career Progression crew, who also lose staff travel seniority.
Remembering that many of these details could alter between now and September, I wish all AO crew the very best of luck whatever decision they make, whether it be VR, transfers to QF, transfers to LHR, and so on.
Now...let's see what happens with Career Progression...
The employment relationship (AO vs Qantas Short Haul) is very distinctive, in that you're being offered the opportunity to VOLUNTARILY transfer into S/H, having been employed by Australian all this time, under their EBA. On that basis, you're agreeing to transfer to S/H on their conditions (that being, you lose your start date for the purposes of seniority, as your start date has to reflect the day you join Qantas Short Haul under their EBA).
The ONLY exception to this rule are those airlines covered by Career Progression - Eastern, Sunstate & Jetstar Domestic - provisions which have been negotiated as part of their EBA's over many years. Jetstar crew only have access to CP on the basis that Impulse's EBA 2 included CP as part of the negotiations, which was rolled over when QFLink (Impulse) became JQ.
Unless your AO EBA has any means of transferring seniority/start dates to elsewhere in the QF Group, you would more than likely not succeed in your bid. On that note, it would be difficult to include anything like this in any current EBA, as you can't include third parties in an agreement (in this case, Qantas)...But I digress...
Your situation is no different to other QF staff (Qantas ground staff for example) wanting to transfer to a permanent flying job in S/H or even L/H. Whilst their years of service are recognised for LSL purposes, start date for seniority reverts to the day they become employees of Qantas Short Haul under the Short Haul EBA.
Whilst I can understand your frustration with the idea of losing 'seniority', you are still maintaining LSL for the purposes of years of service. At the same time, your loss of years of service for Staff Travel is no different to the Career Progression crew, who also lose staff travel seniority.
Remembering that many of these details could alter between now and September, I wish all AO crew the very best of luck whatever decision they make, whether it be VR, transfers to QF, transfers to LHR, and so on.
Now...let's see what happens with Career Progression...
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cairns
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't believe people are complaining over the staff travel seniority issue. I am shocked and ecstatic of what we have been offered as are the majority of crew,and Ithink everyone should be gratefull of the fact that we still have jobs and the opportunity to continue living the great lifestyle we have in cairns with the option of transferring to other bases at a later dateif not immediately. We are extremely lucky with thisoutcome, and I am embarrassed by those of you who appear tobe hard done by as it may take you another 7 years to travel business class internationally!! wake up to yourselves and be happy with what we have, when was the last time Qantas employed Full time employees????? some people can never be pleased!!!!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congratulations to all the AO Cabin Crew. I think you will all enjoy being part of the short haul group.
I know a lot of negative things are written here about short haul, however we actually have quite good working conditions, fly to heaps of different places, have a choice of 5 different bases to live, and have very flexible working conditions, including opportunities for part time.
Although I don't know too much about AO pay rates, I am sure you will actually get paid more, if not at least the same. You will definitely not get less.
Lack of seniority is an issue, however flexible work arrangements allow you to change your roster around, and actually works the best for the most junior!! So I think you will be pleasantly surprised as to the roster you get.
Good luck to all of you, and welcome to short haul.
I know a lot of negative things are written here about short haul, however we actually have quite good working conditions, fly to heaps of different places, have a choice of 5 different bases to live, and have very flexible working conditions, including opportunities for part time.
Although I don't know too much about AO pay rates, I am sure you will actually get paid more, if not at least the same. You will definitely not get less.
Lack of seniority is an issue, however flexible work arrangements allow you to change your roster around, and actually works the best for the most junior!! So I think you will be pleasantly surprised as to the roster you get.
Good luck to all of you, and welcome to short haul.
Thanks for the support call button. I am pesonally looking forward to flying with you guys. And yes, we're being taken care of in terms of salary and Qantas is making sure we are not worse off than at AO.
Registered User **
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These last few posts read like a text book example of the "STOCKHOLM SYNDROME"....
Remember they have just offered VR to S/H.They do this because ostensibly they have too many crew and then they offer to set up a Cairns base because they need more crew!!!!!
Remember they have just offered VR to S/H.They do this because ostensibly they have too many crew and then they offer to set up a Cairns base because they need more crew!!!!!
Registered User **
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since it is reasonably well known that VR packages do anything but remove deadwood I doubt it.
The only result of VR is to allow people who were about to leave go with a windfall and people who are good enough to get a job elsewhere also with a nice handshake.
The remaining staff are those who cannot afford to go because of financial committments and those who would probably not get a job elsewhere.
So twiggsy the deadwood as you put it will still be there.One possible reason for the AO decision maybe that with an election coming within the next few months and the need to win in Queensland the last thing the the government and it's corporate friends would want would be 300 to 500 redundancies in FNQ.
The backlash would be hard to win re election with if you want to do well in a parochial state such as Queensland.
By the way I'm still waiting for you to tell us how you knew all the deatils about the MEL/NRT flight?
The only result of VR is to allow people who were about to leave go with a windfall and people who are good enough to get a job elsewhere also with a nice handshake.
The remaining staff are those who cannot afford to go because of financial committments and those who would probably not get a job elsewhere.
So twiggsy the deadwood as you put it will still be there.One possible reason for the AO decision maybe that with an election coming within the next few months and the need to win in Queensland the last thing the the government and it's corporate friends would want would be 300 to 500 redundancies in FNQ.
The backlash would be hard to win re election with if you want to do well in a parochial state such as Queensland.
By the way I'm still waiting for you to tell us how you knew all the deatils about the MEL/NRT flight?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Callbutton, if there are no casuals in the Cairns base (which I believe is to be the case for now at least), how would you propose flexible work arrangements would work?
Oh, and I know the AO award, it will definatley be no more, if anything a little less.
Oh, and I know the AO award, it will definatley be no more, if anything a little less.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All these people who are not apart of AO, yet have so much too say! 
Thank You for your support Call Button, it is refreshing..
As for VR, such wood can still post comment on PPrune EVEN after taking it! Maybe there should be a notice making that clear
and,
Oh, if you knew the circumstances we are transferring accross on, it won't be if anything a little less.
I just can't wait to be part of this Qantas Group!!!
Thank You for your support Call Button, it is refreshing..
As for VR, such wood can still post comment on PPrune EVEN after taking it! Maybe there should be a notice making that clear
and,
Oh, if you knew the circumstances we are transferring accross on, it won't be if anything a little less.
I just can't wait to be part of this Qantas Group!!!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lowerlobe, nobody here has 'stockholm syndrome'. Yes VR has been offered to short haul, but remember that AO cabin crew are already operating services for Qantas. This means that extra 767's and routes will become part of the short haul group's flying. More aircraft, more flying, therefore more flight attendants.
Samford, not all of the AO crew will remain in CNS. Flexible work arrangements work very well in SYD, BNE, MEL and PER. Maybe if CNS is a small base with no casuals, there won't be so many opportunities to change ones roster, however they still have the opportunity to use the system to drop or pickup trips with other FA's in the base.
Anyway the point of my original post was just to state some of the good things about shorthaul, and to wish the AO cabin crew good luck. From the posts on here they seem like a really positive bunch who will bring a lot to the Qantas group. I know who I would rather spend 10 hours in the rear galley with on the way to Hong Kong.
Samford, not all of the AO crew will remain in CNS. Flexible work arrangements work very well in SYD, BNE, MEL and PER. Maybe if CNS is a small base with no casuals, there won't be so many opportunities to change ones roster, however they still have the opportunity to use the system to drop or pickup trips with other FA's in the base.
Anyway the point of my original post was just to state some of the good things about shorthaul, and to wish the AO cabin crew good luck. From the posts on here they seem like a really positive bunch who will bring a lot to the Qantas group. I know who I would rather spend 10 hours in the rear galley with on the way to Hong Kong.
Registered User **
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
call button.. "Lowerlobe, nobody here has 'stockholm syndrome' "
DO you know what Stockholm syndrom is?
AO have been shut down and threatened with extinction for some time.Everyone was justifiably worried about their jobs after losing their AO identity when they went to QF colours.Obviously AO was not a success or they would have kept flying as AO.
The rumours abounded of VR..L/H...S/H...J*...etc....The comes the announcement that YES AO will be no longer but.......some of you will be S/H..etc..
Then we see comments such as..."I am shocked and ecstatic of what we have been offered as are the majority of crew,and Ithink everyone should be gratefull of the fact that we still have jobs" and "Qantas is making sure we are not worse off than at AO"
It was not long ago that I saw posts of indignation that the company was shutting down AO.
The company gets rid of some in S/H via VR which is an indication of excess crew then tells you guys that there is room to set up a base in Cairns because they need more crew.
THis also moves AO crew from the L/H FAAA to S/H FAAA which removes revenue from the L/H union.There is also the question regarding the relationship between S/H and MAM.
I also know of a number of L/H crew that transferred to S/H and were very willing and enthusiastic about flying S/H but the reaslity was very different.
One question I have is "Will AO crew get Bands or will they be on a lower pay scale than the original S/H crew"?
DO you know what Stockholm syndrom is?
AO have been shut down and threatened with extinction for some time.Everyone was justifiably worried about their jobs after losing their AO identity when they went to QF colours.Obviously AO was not a success or they would have kept flying as AO.
The rumours abounded of VR..L/H...S/H...J*...etc....The comes the announcement that YES AO will be no longer but.......some of you will be S/H..etc..
Then we see comments such as..."I am shocked and ecstatic of what we have been offered as are the majority of crew,and Ithink everyone should be gratefull of the fact that we still have jobs" and "Qantas is making sure we are not worse off than at AO"
It was not long ago that I saw posts of indignation that the company was shutting down AO.
The company gets rid of some in S/H via VR which is an indication of excess crew then tells you guys that there is room to set up a base in Cairns because they need more crew.
THis also moves AO crew from the L/H FAAA to S/H FAAA which removes revenue from the L/H union.There is also the question regarding the relationship between S/H and MAM.
I also know of a number of L/H crew that transferred to S/H and were very willing and enthusiastic about flying S/H but the reaslity was very different.
One question I have is "Will AO crew get Bands or will they be on a lower pay scale than the original S/H crew"?