Sorry too sleepy!! Not Going!!
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Sorry too sleepy!! Not Going!!
SMH
April 16, 2007 - 3:17PM
Passengers on a British Airways flight from New Delhi to London faced a 13-hour delay as the pilot felt he was too sleepy after a noisy night in a New Delhi hotel, newspapers reported today.
Angry passengers were offloaded from the plane early yesterday morning after the pilot refused to fly until he caught up with his sleep.
"The crew hadn't had enough rest ... the entire crew had a disturbed night," Radhika Raikhy, spokeswoman for BA, was quoted in the Hindustan Times as saying, adding that the airline's safety rules did not allow its crew to operate in such conditions.
The Times of India said the flight and cabin crew complained of not getting enough rest as their hotel was too noisy.
The flight, BA 142, finally took off 13 hours later to the fury of passengers who were sent to city hotels to wait out the delay as the crew rested, newspapers reported.
"It was very chaotic," Sunil Thapar, a passenger, said.
"Due to a shortage of rooms, some people, including me, had to share rooms with strangers," he was quoted in The Times of India as saying.
Interesting.... This is what crew should be doing more often!
April 16, 2007 - 3:17PM
Passengers on a British Airways flight from New Delhi to London faced a 13-hour delay as the pilot felt he was too sleepy after a noisy night in a New Delhi hotel, newspapers reported today.
Angry passengers were offloaded from the plane early yesterday morning after the pilot refused to fly until he caught up with his sleep.
"The crew hadn't had enough rest ... the entire crew had a disturbed night," Radhika Raikhy, spokeswoman for BA, was quoted in the Hindustan Times as saying, adding that the airline's safety rules did not allow its crew to operate in such conditions.
The Times of India said the flight and cabin crew complained of not getting enough rest as their hotel was too noisy.
The flight, BA 142, finally took off 13 hours later to the fury of passengers who were sent to city hotels to wait out the delay as the crew rested, newspapers reported.
"It was very chaotic," Sunil Thapar, a passenger, said.
"Due to a shortage of rooms, some people, including me, had to share rooms with strangers," he was quoted in The Times of India as saying.
Interesting.... This is what crew should be doing more often!
Bottums Up
And they've probably submitted written complaints about the unsuitability of the accommodation but some bean counter's decided that there's no real reason to move, and some other manager's sat on the complaints doing nothing because that seems to be the way to manage, and now the brown stuff's hit the fan, and they're all surprised. 
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The sad part is that the pax who were upset would probably be the first to take legal action against the airline if there had been an accident due to fatigue.
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Here is the current thread from R & N with some credible information:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=272105
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=272105
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I can see no better way to make management get over the attempts of the bean counters who insist of putting crews in hotels that are substandard.
Great work!!
Back in the East West days we ran F27 charters Melbourne to Launceston with groups of desperate punters who would be bussed to the Country Club Casino at about 2000 hrs and returned to the airport at 0600 hours generally much dishevelled and poorer.
I would drive from DPO, meet the aeroplane and put it to bed and overnight with the crew.
The Dodgy Brother who did the accommodation organised the Hotel Tasmania for one overnight. Brooksy was one of the crew from memory and being Saturday night we got no bloody slep at all due to the doof-doof-doof base rising from the disco below.
The promoter was roundly told that this was NOT on and that decent quiet accommodation was required. All agreed - fine.
Next week aeroplane arrives, celubrious promoter smiling and glad handing the victims as they get on their bus. I ask where I am to send the crew. I am told by Mr Sleazy Hotel Tasmania. I didn't say another word to him. I just swung around to the skipper and said "lodge a flight plan and I will call the refueller, this clown has us in the Hotel Tasmania again."
He grinned and headed off and all of a sudden a decent hotel was arranged. The sleazebag nearly shat himself as he was very nearly left with 48 punters and no aeroplane.
Sometimes one has to go to extremes to get a realistic outcome.
Rest periods are just that and should not be screwed with in noisy and probably dodgy hotels.
Best all
EWL
Great work!!
Back in the East West days we ran F27 charters Melbourne to Launceston with groups of desperate punters who would be bussed to the Country Club Casino at about 2000 hrs and returned to the airport at 0600 hours generally much dishevelled and poorer.
I would drive from DPO, meet the aeroplane and put it to bed and overnight with the crew.
The Dodgy Brother who did the accommodation organised the Hotel Tasmania for one overnight. Brooksy was one of the crew from memory and being Saturday night we got no bloody slep at all due to the doof-doof-doof base rising from the disco below.
The promoter was roundly told that this was NOT on and that decent quiet accommodation was required. All agreed - fine.
Next week aeroplane arrives, celubrious promoter smiling and glad handing the victims as they get on their bus. I ask where I am to send the crew. I am told by Mr Sleazy Hotel Tasmania. I didn't say another word to him. I just swung around to the skipper and said "lodge a flight plan and I will call the refueller, this clown has us in the Hotel Tasmania again."
He grinned and headed off and all of a sudden a decent hotel was arranged. The sleazebag nearly shat himself as he was very nearly left with 48 punters and no aeroplane.
Sometimes one has to go to extremes to get a realistic outcome.
Rest periods are just that and should not be screwed with in noisy and probably dodgy hotels.
Best all
EWL
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A few years back, I was working for an operator (A) who was doing work for charter company (B), who used to try and save every single cent he(she) could. (s)He would plan the tour weeks/months ahead, and book the two pilots into a "double room" hoping that the motel/hotel would fill up prior to that date, so that they would check in - complain- told "no more rooms... sorry" and accept $20 cash each as an apology!!!!
I caught him/her out one day when I checked into an hotel and they said " you two are sharing a room!!!". I asked whether there were other rooms available, to which the answer was yes... but I am not authorised to give you two rooms. I then demanded two rooms, to which the answer was " by who's authority?" ..,. I replied... "the authority of the person whio is about to relaod 20m odd people BACk on the aircraft and fly to a city where there IS suitable accommadation for the crew."... I then softened to add " if there IS a problem, I will give you MY credit card, and you can charge me PERSONALLY for the room... but I acn assure you that it will not come to this." I also asked for a copy of the reservation form, which had been faxed thru two months prior REQUESTING that the crew SHARE an hotel room!!!!
I took this back to my boss(company B) and told him that this was TOTALLY unacceptable, and that he needed to pull mr (A) into line. Next time this happened, I would leave the pax there and fly to somewhere else, befopre flying back to pick them up.... each and every night he tried to pull this caper...
I never left pax anywhere, and I NEVER compromised my stand!!!!!
MINIMUM standard is MINUMUM standard... SAFETY is SAFETY.... FATIGUED is FATIGUED. it is like being "a little bit preganant!!!!"... YES OR NO!!!!!!!
well done chaps!
I caught him/her out one day when I checked into an hotel and they said " you two are sharing a room!!!". I asked whether there were other rooms available, to which the answer was yes... but I am not authorised to give you two rooms. I then demanded two rooms, to which the answer was " by who's authority?" ..,. I replied... "the authority of the person whio is about to relaod 20m odd people BACk on the aircraft and fly to a city where there IS suitable accommadation for the crew."... I then softened to add " if there IS a problem, I will give you MY credit card, and you can charge me PERSONALLY for the room... but I acn assure you that it will not come to this." I also asked for a copy of the reservation form, which had been faxed thru two months prior REQUESTING that the crew SHARE an hotel room!!!!
I took this back to my boss(company B) and told him that this was TOTALLY unacceptable, and that he needed to pull mr (A) into line. Next time this happened, I would leave the pax there and fly to somewhere else, befopre flying back to pick them up.... each and every night he tried to pull this caper...
I never left pax anywhere, and I NEVER compromised my stand!!!!!
MINIMUM standard is MINUMUM standard... SAFETY is SAFETY.... FATIGUED is FATIGUED. it is like being "a little bit preganant!!!!"... YES OR NO!!!!!!!
well done chaps!
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I had a tech crew which did just that, but they left the cabin attendents behind - yep, I was one of them. They were very wise.
It was the Wahgi Valley Ball at Minj (in PNG) and we'd just dropped off 32 single ladies from Pt Moresby to attend the ball... so I didn't mind hanging around... I didn't get much sleep!
Crew accommodation was a grass filled palliasse on the District Officer's floor! Capt Peter Chapman and, I think, F/O John Bayles decided to spend the night in Mt Hagen.
It was the Wahgi Valley Ball at Minj (in PNG) and we'd just dropped off 32 single ladies from Pt Moresby to attend the ball... so I didn't mind hanging around... I didn't get much sleep!
Crew accommodation was a grass filled palliasse on the District Officer's floor! Capt Peter Chapman and, I think, F/O John Bayles decided to spend the night in Mt Hagen.
Good for them, but remember BA have a strong union. Would Ryan Air pilots have dared to do the same thing ?
As a minimum I need a quiet room with black out curtains and heating/airconditioning as applicable. Ensuite bathroom goes without saying.
My job requires me to perform at all hours of the day and night and I can't do that without proper sleep.
Flight crew rooms need to be located in a quiet part of the hotel and the staff appropriately briefed. I don't need a cleaner hoovering outside my door or someone using a jack hammer nearby.
As a minimum I need a quiet room with black out curtains and heating/airconditioning as applicable. Ensuite bathroom goes without saying.
My job requires me to perform at all hours of the day and night and I can't do that without proper sleep.
Flight crew rooms need to be located in a quiet part of the hotel and the staff appropriately briefed. I don't need a cleaner hoovering outside my door or someone using a jack hammer nearby.
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Originally Posted by ibr
How many accidents have fatigue as a contributing cause?
Probably heaps more, but minor inebriation and subsequent laziness prevents me from digging up the details.
Nunc est bibendum
Now if this was a JQ crew they woud be getting slandered from pillar to post, for accepting crap t&c's, double standards at its best!!!!!
More power to ANY driver that pulls the pin citing legitimate lack of rest. It's a gutsy call and anyone who does it in legitimate circumstances has my complete backing.
