cruise/junior first officer 4 J*

[podbreak]

QF hasn't recruited in years and when they finally so it will still be 8+ years + for an SO to become and FO.

Alot of people on these forums are thinking this way. I can tell you with a great deal of confidence thats is a very incorrect figure. Provided there aren't anymore significant setbacks, you can halve that figure.

[topgun0007]

P2T2, you have sprayed a lot of sh88 here, and whilst it makes interesting reading, can someone please explain the following:

Given that according to the learned comments on this forum, we are in the grip of a world wide pilot shortage, and given that apparently, every other airline in the world is paying so much better;

Why is it that from all accounts (friends I have in J*) very few JQ pilots have left for these greener pastures?

Additionally, as far as I am aware, everyone gets paid overnight allowances and having seen several JQ domestic captain group certificates average salary appears to be around AUD155K (including O/T and not O/N allow.) which would, all things being equal equate to approx. $172K 'ish for a JQI captain.

Still have not come across one guy who has his days off upline either.

Will have to wait unitl end of 06-07 financial year to assess JQI group certificaes, but this seems to be the way it is panning out.

[oicur12]

"The MNL allowance is about 2000 pesos per day which on today's exchange rate, 38.6 PhP to the AuD, is $53 AuD."

"Last time I was there, year or so now, this was not enough to eat in the hotel. Basic breakfast was 15, lunch about 25 and dinner about 35 so no go."

The irony being that your daily expenses, which apparently are not acceptable to you, constitute the monthly income of most people living in the Philippines.

Such is life.

[Johhny Utah]

podbreak - there are a stack of guys who are well and truly more than half way to the 8 year mark, with absolutely no sign of an FO slot in sight. As an example, the last 767 FO slots (all 3 of them for the whole training year!) went to guys who are around the high 1600's in seniority - meaning they joined in 2000.

However, as a means to ease the pain whilst waiting for an FO slot, earning solid $$$ as a S/O goes a long way I guess... while it lasts

[podbreak]

JU, I'm aware that the current status of limited movement has resulted in this, but I was referring to future employees. I take it that is what the poster had in mind. With the new aircraft on the way, there is likely to be substantial movement, similar to that seen 99-01. People are free to deny this until they are red in the face, but if I were a young SO right now or a future employee, I wouldn't be too concerned.

[neville_nobody]

Johnny

You sure those blokes you are referring to aren't cadets. There are FO's on the 767 who joined a long time after 2000, however they joined with several thousand total mostly command.

[Poto]

but if I were a young SO right now or a future employee, I wouldn't be too concerned.

Poddy I would be worried about being on a different contract to the current CA. A real possibility for any future new hires.

[Johhny Utah]

To clarify - the 767 slots I mentioned are only the very latest ones, however the last several years have been of similar seniority. You would have to go back to late 2002 to find guys who managed to get the last of the 'early' promotions onto the 767 - roughly 12 months as an S/O before becoming an F/O on the 767.

As for a ground swell of promotion as new aircraft are delivered - I'll believe it when I see it. Don't get me wrong - I will be happy should it eventuate, but I certainly won't be holding my breath...

[Victor India]

Neville,

You sure those blokes you are referring to aren't cadets. There are FO's on the 767 who joined a long time after 2000, however they joined with several thousand total mostly command.

Is there something I am missing in the certified agreement which allows guys with decent experience to circumvent the seniority system? Perhaps a poorly advertised Direct Entry FO Scheme? Not sure if you are making a point re : opportunity, motivation or neither...

VI

[Poto]

Maybe Nev was talking about the requirement for 3000 hrs (I think?) before a QF driver, from the cadet program, can move into a window seat

Someone with a little more knowledge of the requirements can enlighten us all

Wonder what the Crz F/o requirements will be?

[Victor India]

Poto,

Thanks - that seems to ring a bell but I haven't got the books at the moment so can't confirm.

Cheers!

[pastadolla]

Not to start a thread drift, but just a question out of curiosity more than anything, does anyone know what the ruling is in regards to cadets being "promoted" to Jetstar as F/O's should they desire after being S/O's? I know the whole thing about having to resign from big brother and all but given cadets dont have all that much command time would Jetstar accept them as F/O's as QF do in time? I assume it's possible but of course not sure why you would be that keen anyhow....

[GaryGnu]

QF Cadet to Jetstar F/O

When the Jetstar F/O vacancies were advertised by FSO I recall thinking the command experience requirements were well in excess of what any cadet would have unless they did quite a lot of private flying.

I am not familiar with the specifics of the Industry Placement Programme but I don't think there is any command time in that for cadets.

[Veruka Salt]

I was a 767 F/O for 5 yrs, and in the latest training allocations I would have been about 1 yr too junior for a 767 F/O slot . . . .

. . . . unreal.

[murgatroid]

When the Jetstar F/O vacancies were advertised by FSO I recall thinking the command experience requirements were well in excess of what any cadet would have unless they did quite a lot of private flying.

Correct, there were current QF A330 F/O's who didn't meet the requirements for a J* F/O.

There were current QF Captains who didn't meet the requirements for J* Captain, despite having a command at QF for a decade or so. Even many A330 QF check and training Captains did not meet the requirements.

The requirements were a complete joke and designed to ensure no QF (well except maybe ex AN 320) would meet them.

[excellr8]

I think with the current state of affairs at QF a promotion is best found in the desert. While the goons fiddle with our careers we best make our services more usefull elsewhere. See you guys and gals at the EK road show.

[speeeedy]

Podbreak,

Genuine question - how do you figure on all this promotion?

A380's and A330's coming but Classics and 767's going.

738's coming but 734's going.

Replacement aircraft means a lot of training but this is not the same as promotion, CM seems to be very careful when he talks about this, he always talks about the massive 'training' coming up not 'promotion'.

Extra aircraft are needed for promotion and whilst there will be some extra aircraft, hardly large enough to completley reverse the current timelines.

[Elroy Jettson]

True Speeedy, that is also assuming that mainline guys will be flying the new equipment. Geoff has guys paying for their own endorsements on 330s and no doubt 787s when they come, he has a wet lease crewing company in the form of AO, who are already undercutting mainline on mainline routes, who do you think he would prefer fly the new equipment?

Remember he said "The new equipment will go where it is best utilised and most profitable?" Do you honestly think that will be mainline?

[Wingspar]

What will happen when JQ get the 787?

Who pays for the endorsement?

Is it covered in their current agreement?

[max autobrakes]

Guess what?
The International variation to the JetStar Collective Agreement the JetStar pilots voted for, was for a "widebody variation".
That means they could quite conceivably end up flying the A380 for peanuts as well as the B787!
HEBES SUM ET SUFFRAGIA FERO!