cruise/junior first officer 4 J*
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787 captain,
With allowances, and lots of overtime (LAs galore) its possible for a 400 SO to gross almost 140K.
53K as a cruise FO? If this is as silly as it sounds, surely they'll have trouble recruiting.
With allowances, and lots of overtime (LAs galore) its possible for a 400 SO to gross almost 140K.
53K as a cruise FO? If this is as silly as it sounds, surely they'll have trouble recruiting.
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For last year the highest S/O gross pay was up towards 160k (all up) while the lowest was about 70k. Big variance depending on Fleet type/ rotation/seniority/ lifestyle choices.
Even 70K is better than an A330 Cruise F/O figure. I hope their are plenty of add ons and allowances to bring the total up. Paying off a loan for an endo while living in Sydney can put big restrictions on your social life.
Even 70K is better than an A330 Cruise F/O figure. I hope their are plenty of add ons and allowances to bring the total up. Paying off a loan for an endo while living in Sydney can put big restrictions on your social life.
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touchn.....787 Captain
ahahahahahaha, who earnt 70K??????? Wouldn't be mainline.....not even A330 surely.
787, 70-100 is pretty wrong. Most of my friends and I (-400) ie. same seniority, earnt around 118-120K 1st year and above that for the years after. It is dependant though on blank lines and aircraft type. The -400 will generally be busy on a Blank line therefore you end up earning more than you would on a pattern.
Its all about the facts, plenty of bullsh!t on here...
787, 70-100 is pretty wrong. Most of my friends and I (-400) ie. same seniority, earnt around 118-120K 1st year and above that for the years after. It is dependant though on blank lines and aircraft type. The -400 will generally be busy on a Blank line therefore you end up earning more than you would on a pattern.
Its all about the facts, plenty of bullsh!t on here...
Last edited by brisbane observer; 2nd Mar 2007 at 03:56. Reason: Add comments re 787 Captain
hey guys and gals, try this on for size
Cruise FO is a bit of a wrought
Where can I be in 6 years if I had decided not to join Jetstar and maintained my current employment vs taking the job. Eveyone here agrees that you will be earning more as an FO with J* then most regionals. QF hasn't recruited in years and when they finally so it will still be 8+ years + for an SO to become and FO.
Now say your in a regional you 6 year earning potential will be close to this:
1) FO for 6 years, with high seniority and the possibility of a command in a couple of years, $360 000 or
2) FO for 3 year min with 3 years Captain $450 000K
3) A couple of years in a regional then to an oversea airline with no Tax as an FO $560 000.
compared to J* FO including endorement cost
5 years FO, 1 years Captain: ($440 000 + $150 000) - $40000 (endorement with interest) = $550 000...
And you wouldn't join why? Short term it just make plan sense for people barely scarping $280 000 over the same period. Besides beats paying 10k with skippers for casual work.
Cruise FO is a bit of a wrought
Where can I be in 6 years if I had decided not to join Jetstar and maintained my current employment vs taking the job. Eveyone here agrees that you will be earning more as an FO with J* then most regionals. QF hasn't recruited in years and when they finally so it will still be 8+ years + for an SO to become and FO.
Now say your in a regional you 6 year earning potential will be close to this:
1) FO for 6 years, with high seniority and the possibility of a command in a couple of years, $360 000 or
2) FO for 3 year min with 3 years Captain $450 000K
3) A couple of years in a regional then to an oversea airline with no Tax as an FO $560 000.
compared to J* FO including endorement cost
5 years FO, 1 years Captain: ($440 000 + $150 000) - $40000 (endorement with interest) = $550 000...
And you wouldn't join why? Short term it just make plan sense for people barely scarping $280 000 over the same period. Besides beats paying 10k with skippers for casual work.
Last edited by Bula; 2nd Mar 2007 at 04:31.
Rumour doing the rounds is that QF will start employing in the second half of the year and require 200 pilots. I understand that some of those who are on the hold file have been offered Jet* positions. For those who want to join mainline then it may be worth holding off a bit because if you accept Jet* there is no way that they will let you transfer later on.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Cruise FO at $A88K.
I do earn more than that as an FO on a business jet in Europe, plus I get allowances and the endorsement's paid for by the company.
I do earn more than that as an FO on a business jet in Europe, plus I get allowances and the endorsement's paid for by the company.
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At Dragonair we don't do any longhaul flying, so cadets (one stripe Second Officers who are HKG residents trained from scratch at KA expense) are dumped straight into the RH seat of A330's with a grand total of around 250 hours total aeronautical experience. For this they receive the princely sum of of HKD22,000/month (about HKD6=AUD1) +medical+annual 13th month bonus, rising to about HKD57,000/month over 4 years (when they are effectively First Officers).
Line Captains operate as untrained and unpaid Training Captains (although a token 30 minutes of once only sim time is dedicated to landing upset recovery).
Line Captains operate as untrained and unpaid Training Captains (although a token 30 minutes of once only sim time is dedicated to landing upset recovery).
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Quote:
"ahahahahahaha, who earnt 70K??????? Wouldn't be mainline.....not even A330 surely.
787, 70-100 is pretty wrong. Most of my friends and I (-400) ie. same seniority, earnt around 118-120K 1st year and above that for the years after. It is dependant though on blank lines and aircraft type. The -400 will generally be busy on a Blank line therefore you end up earning more than you would on a pattern.
Its all about the facts, plenty of bullsh!t on here..."
Ok, my bad. I thought that given that the info came from Qantas it would be fairly accurate, apparently not so. At least I know now.
787
"ahahahahahaha, who earnt 70K??????? Wouldn't be mainline.....not even A330 surely.
787, 70-100 is pretty wrong. Most of my friends and I (-400) ie. same seniority, earnt around 118-120K 1st year and above that for the years after. It is dependant though on blank lines and aircraft type. The -400 will generally be busy on a Blank line therefore you end up earning more than you would on a pattern.
Its all about the facts, plenty of bullsh!t on here..."
Ok, my bad. I thought that given that the info came from Qantas it would be fairly accurate, apparently not so. At least I know now.
787
787 guy...
No, you're not all wrong. I suspect it's more a case of apples & oranges comparison. The QF website pay you quote is close for projected 'base' pay and covers the variation due to aircraft type (767 vs 744), but perhaps doesn't include things like;
- overtime for lengthy tours of duty prevalent on the -400, and
- meal allowances etc, which for a busy year can amount to A$15K or more (ie lots of time away on duty in expensive places).
Hence some folks here are quoting and apparently gloating over gross income without taking subsistence costs out, some are gleefully proud of the small numbers but not mentioning the loadings.
Everyone has an angle...
- overtime for lengthy tours of duty prevalent on the -400, and
- meal allowances etc, which for a busy year can amount to A$15K or more (ie lots of time away on duty in expensive places).
Hence some folks here are quoting and apparently gloating over gross income without taking subsistence costs out, some are gleefully proud of the small numbers but not mentioning the loadings.
Everyone has an angle...
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What next. Jetstar International S/O's at 60% the cruise F/O rate?
Quite appropriate me thinks, providing a title cruise F/O at Jetstar.
Joe public will be spoon fed the line "Jetstar First Ofiicers are paid $53,211 on initial appontment whereas Qantas First Officers are paid $200,00 plus. Qantas will therefore be seeking convergence to the more reasonable Jetstar First Officer pay rates."
Spin Spin Spin.
Quite appropriate me thinks, providing a title cruise F/O at Jetstar.
Joe public will be spoon fed the line "Jetstar First Ofiicers are paid $53,211 on initial appontment whereas Qantas First Officers are paid $200,00 plus. Qantas will therefore be seeking convergence to the more reasonable Jetstar First Officer pay rates."
Spin Spin Spin.
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How in the hell can you count a meal allowance in your wage , dont you eat when you are away
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How in the hell can you count a meal allowance in your wage , dont you eat when you are away
Interested to see how a 'cruise F/O' pay adds up with all the inclusions.
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Someone needs to remind Jetstar that EK is in town looking for drivers, QF is reported as saying they are looking for 296 pilots over the next 3 years.
They'll have problems retaining crew, let alone filling the cruise seat warming positions.
BTW - Why were Jetstar International operating 3 Captain crew last week? Training or crew shortage or both?
They'll have problems retaining crew, let alone filling the cruise seat warming positions.
BTW - Why were Jetstar International operating 3 Captain crew last week? Training or crew shortage or both?
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The MNL allowance is around AUD85 per day but the AUD equivalent is meaningless, totally meaningless. The allowances are based on the local currency price of meals that are available in the crew hotel and are based on a specific formula. What's more, they do not consider any discounts the hotel may offer crew. The 'drinks' the allowances are meant to cover are tea and coffee with your meals. Other drinks during the day such as water and a mid-morning or mid-afternoon coffee are charged to your ODTA. Do you drink JW Blue label?
The less crew speak and belly-ache openly about these allowances the better as most would see them as pretty bloody generous. Maybe you would prefer to go onto 'actuals' as do many staff on duty travel/Company business and only get their money back upon production of a receipt for meals actually consumed?
The less crew speak and belly-ache openly about these allowances the better as most would see them as pretty bloody generous. Maybe you would prefer to go onto 'actuals' as do many staff on duty travel/Company business and only get their money back upon production of a receipt for meals actually consumed?
Nunc est bibendum
ROLFMAO @ BA Lert. Reasonable actuals are a threat that gets trotted out every now and then. They won't ever occur for crew for at least two reasons.
1. Administrative overheads to administer. Imagine the numbers of personnel required to keep track of 7000 plus crew.
2. That they are open to considerable rorting. I know of a bunch of examples. I won't provide details on this forum.
You are right about crew going on and on about them. Most people outside the industry don't understand the concept.
1. Administrative overheads to administer. Imagine the numbers of personnel required to keep track of 7000 plus crew.
2. That they are open to considerable rorting. I know of a bunch of examples. I won't provide details on this forum.
You are right about crew going on and on about them. Most people outside the industry don't understand the concept.
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G'day Keg! Totally agree with your two points but crew would certainly know how well off they are now if they henceforth had to adopt an "actuals" regime.
As for your comment "Most people outside the industry don't understand the concept", might one suggest that you amend it to read "Most people don't understand the concept, including staff."? Those on unaccountable per diems just don't know how fortunate they are, and pity help them if they have to go to the ATO standards; these rates vary according to annual salary which means the the better one is paid, the better can eat. What a load of cr@p?
Allowances are where Qantas can save heaps so I can only repeat that crew really ought to shut up about them before the goose that laid the golden egg is killed or (no pun) laid off! If in any doubt as to the accuracy of this statement, have a look around and see what other companies crew are paid for their allowances.
As for your comment "Most people outside the industry don't understand the concept", might one suggest that you amend it to read "Most people don't understand the concept, including staff."? Those on unaccountable per diems just don't know how fortunate they are, and pity help them if they have to go to the ATO standards; these rates vary according to annual salary which means the the better one is paid, the better can eat. What a load of cr@p?
Allowances are where Qantas can save heaps so I can only repeat that crew really ought to shut up about them before the goose that laid the golden egg is killed or (no pun) laid off! If in any doubt as to the accuracy of this statement, have a look around and see what other companies crew are paid for their allowances.
Nunc est bibendum
Lert, we are 'accountable' from the tax perspective. Anything above the applicable ATO SES/SEC rates see us taxed at marginal rates. I agree it's a joke about earning more means you're entitled to eat more. Surreal in fact.
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If the allowance does not cover meal costs at the crew hotel, perhaps you could eat outside the hotel. Now I'm sure the company recommends that you only eat at the hotel, so if you get sick turn it back on the company. If this then gives the company a crewing issue, so be it. It is their fault for not paying enough in allowances to eat at the place they recommend.