Pilot Recruiting
Europe versus Australia.
Lets start with safety, how many people have been killed in airline crashes in the last decade in Europe?...........Now, how many have been killed in Australia?............
If you want to go on lets talk about standards!
Lets start with safety, how many people have been killed in airline crashes in the last decade in Europe?...........Now, how many have been killed in Australia?............
If you want to go on lets talk about standards!
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Hi Neville.
Yes I take your points but I have been in this industry 25 years now and flying for 23. I have seen my career go from pistons to jets to airlines to corporate and beyond, and all in Europe. There are opportunities here if you are prepared to be flexible.
Not in Australia though. Having found that unless you are born Ozzie, trained Ozzie and have a lot of Ozzie mates in the right places I prefer to stay this side of the planet.
How come a country so big only has 2 major players? There are countries here the size of the ACT with more airlines!
''Out of date working practices.'' Mainly unions. Far to powerful in Oz and only too keen to cause trouble. As I said, this is what we had in Europe in the 70's and it just brought us down. I am not anti-union, Just anti-abuse of their power. Look what happened to Ansett NZ. Destroyed by unions.
Aussie.
Started here, and guess I'll finish here.
Hoss.
One simple way to make flying safe............. stay on the ground!
Yes I take your points but I have been in this industry 25 years now and flying for 23. I have seen my career go from pistons to jets to airlines to corporate and beyond, and all in Europe. There are opportunities here if you are prepared to be flexible.
Not in Australia though. Having found that unless you are born Ozzie, trained Ozzie and have a lot of Ozzie mates in the right places I prefer to stay this side of the planet.
How come a country so big only has 2 major players? There are countries here the size of the ACT with more airlines!
''Out of date working practices.'' Mainly unions. Far to powerful in Oz and only too keen to cause trouble. As I said, this is what we had in Europe in the 70's and it just brought us down. I am not anti-union, Just anti-abuse of their power. Look what happened to Ansett NZ. Destroyed by unions.
Aussie.
Started here, and guess I'll finish here.
Hoss.
One simple way to make flying safe............. stay on the ground!
Metrosexual
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Kelly,
Countries in Europe the size of the ACT have 14million people population.
And those airlines, you mean like SABENA, SWISS etc ??
I think the issue of the airline market in Europe has more to do with economies of scale, rather than 'antiquated union practices' ...that is way over simplistic.
The reality is in an area roughly the size of Australia, there is in excess of 600million people as opposed to 20 million.
Countries in Europe the size of the ACT have 14million people population.
And those airlines, you mean like SABENA, SWISS etc ??
I think the issue of the airline market in Europe has more to do with economies of scale, rather than 'antiquated union practices' ...that is way over simplistic.
The reality is in an area roughly the size of Australia, there is in excess of 600million people as opposed to 20 million.
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Oh boy....
2pissed2drive, I don't often make comments to a thread but when I read rubbish like this I just can't help myself! maybe Ive got you figured wrong, but I only have your post to work on!
You are kidding right? You are 23 years old, have barely any hours and are giving up? Your parents must be happy right, planning to pay them back I hope!? You are extremely lucky to have had parents who worked their asses off and made sacrifices to finance, what they thought, was their sons dream in Life. Turns out, after 70k+ he decides it was all just to hard. But hey, you tried for 2 years right, Im sure that was worth your mum and dad giving up on that BMW theyve always wanted or the earlier retirement they could have had!
What I can't understand is that you are starting out in a time where the airline industry is booming! The FOs in airlines now started their careers with prospects very different from those you have now. All that your comments show is that you just don't enjoy flying. I winged non stop during my 6 years in GA, what a Shole I live in etc! But thats part of aviation, secretely I loved every minute of it! So if you really would prefer to work in a mine or behind a desk for the rest of your life then go ahead, its one less competitor for those who truly enjoy flying. One question though, you do know that you won't be starting as managing director when you start your new job right? You will have to work your way up the ladder everywhere!
Anyway.....as for a high TER making you smart (as you mentioned several times) I doubt it. I had a TER of 96, its based on a smart choice of subjects, perhaps an extra one two for a few extra points and most importantly having NO LIFE! I knew I wanted to be a pilot and in Yr 9 I found out about a new aviation degree course. Aparently the cutoff grade for the course was a TER of 90%, so I studied my butt off for 3 years. Its the result of hard work and its a score anyone can achieve if they have a reason to.
Turns out I couldve saved myself the effort since all the interview panel wanted to know is how I would finance the training
welcome to GA!
Anyhoo....theres my rant
DR
2pissed2drive, I don't often make comments to a thread but when I read rubbish like this I just can't help myself! maybe Ive got you figured wrong, but I only have your post to work on!
You are kidding right? You are 23 years old, have barely any hours and are giving up? Your parents must be happy right, planning to pay them back I hope!? You are extremely lucky to have had parents who worked their asses off and made sacrifices to finance, what they thought, was their sons dream in Life. Turns out, after 70k+ he decides it was all just to hard. But hey, you tried for 2 years right, Im sure that was worth your mum and dad giving up on that BMW theyve always wanted or the earlier retirement they could have had!
What I can't understand is that you are starting out in a time where the airline industry is booming! The FOs in airlines now started their careers with prospects very different from those you have now. All that your comments show is that you just don't enjoy flying. I winged non stop during my 6 years in GA, what a Shole I live in etc! But thats part of aviation, secretely I loved every minute of it! So if you really would prefer to work in a mine or behind a desk for the rest of your life then go ahead, its one less competitor for those who truly enjoy flying. One question though, you do know that you won't be starting as managing director when you start your new job right? You will have to work your way up the ladder everywhere!
Anyway.....as for a high TER making you smart (as you mentioned several times) I doubt it. I had a TER of 96, its based on a smart choice of subjects, perhaps an extra one two for a few extra points and most importantly having NO LIFE! I knew I wanted to be a pilot and in Yr 9 I found out about a new aviation degree course. Aparently the cutoff grade for the course was a TER of 90%, so I studied my butt off for 3 years. Its the result of hard work and its a score anyone can achieve if they have a reason to.
Turns out I couldve saved myself the effort since all the interview panel wanted to know is how I would finance the training
welcome to GA!Anyhoo....theres my rant
DR
Some good posts in this thread.
I am 27 and about to leave a 6 fig salary to Join the RAAF, Obviously Money in not the motivator, Money may make some people happy, but not me. I have seen my salary grow a lot in the 5 years I have been in my current industry but has it ever influenced my level of enjoyment from my work.... Never.
I feel very fortunate to have the chance to pursue something I wanted to do since I was a child but never thought I would have the chance.
I think the barriers to entry into aviation are there because there is not shortage of people wanting to give it a go. If HECS allowed flying training it would increase the supply and the rewards at the end would go down.
I think its crazy to have to pay 100k to get a job which the starting salary is 30k but the question must be asked is why do people do it.
There is something about flying aeroplanes that's different from a desk job..... Its called FUN!!
I am 27 and about to leave a 6 fig salary to Join the RAAF, Obviously Money in not the motivator, Money may make some people happy, but not me. I have seen my salary grow a lot in the 5 years I have been in my current industry but has it ever influenced my level of enjoyment from my work.... Never.
I feel very fortunate to have the chance to pursue something I wanted to do since I was a child but never thought I would have the chance.
I think the barriers to entry into aviation are there because there is not shortage of people wanting to give it a go. If HECS allowed flying training it would increase the supply and the rewards at the end would go down.
I think its crazy to have to pay 100k to get a job which the starting salary is 30k but the question must be asked is why do people do it.
There is something about flying aeroplanes that's different from a desk job..... Its called FUN!!
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Having the noose of a substantial loan around ya neck is quite the motivator. I also had the benefit of parents guaranteeing my finance but the repayments were my responsibility. Not forgeting the HECS tax that had to be payed back as well. Worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to make ends meet and it was hard. But I worked at it and chose my employers carefully so that progression onto twins would happen. 4 years out of my training I was very lucky to score a job with a prominent turbo-prop operator and a command followed quickly. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go to Darwin and the like. Too many people vieing for the few jobs. Look off the beaten track a bit. The work is out there. Have a solid plan of attack with your applications to airlines and stick to it RELIGOUSLY. Have fun and enjoy the now even if it does suck a bit. Make good friends and network at every opportunity. I've never doubted that it would happen and it finally has countless years later. A big salary on a nice burner with a pretty good company.
I spose the big tip is to stay positive. Don't lose sight of your goals and work towards them every day. The interviews will come. The rest is up to you.
Good luck
D
I spose the big tip is to stay positive. Don't lose sight of your goals and work towards them every day. The interviews will come. The rest is up to you.
Good luck
D
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Hmm... What keeps motivated to keep going and not give up?? That little voice inside me that "farrk you you won't beat me!"
5 years after completing my CPL I am now on B1900s, loving it and all the while knowing it can only get better from here.
Those hard times just make it that much sweeter when you do 'make it' whatever that may mean to you.
And when people ask me should they get into aviation I give it to them straight 'if you want it bad enough then go for it!'
5 years after completing my CPL I am now on B1900s, loving it and all the while knowing it can only get better from here.
Those hard times just make it that much sweeter when you do 'make it' whatever that may mean to you.
And when people ask me should they get into aviation I give it to them straight 'if you want it bad enough then go for it!'
AustralianMade
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2P2D,
I fully support your right to make your own choices based on your own experiences. Good for you mate.
Now, please PM me the name of the employer you have just left, as I believe he might be looking for someone!
I fully support your right to make your own choices based on your own experiences. Good for you mate.
Now, please PM me the name of the employer you have just left, as I believe he might be looking for someone!
2P2D
"Last week I was offered a job that pays $120, 000 a year (on the job training)- only because of my highschool subjects I chose to study.
Hell, I'm gonna take it"
care to elaborate, I don't think there is any job in the world paying that much based on high school subject level of knowledge/experience. Your having a laugh...
"Last week I was offered a job that pays $120, 000 a year (on the job training)- only because of my highschool subjects I chose to study.
Hell, I'm gonna take it"
care to elaborate, I don't think there is any job in the world paying that much based on high school subject level of knowledge/experience. Your having a laugh...
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People....you may not personally agree with 2P's choice, but you must all agree it is HIS to make!! And credit where credit is due. How many good folk are out there whinging away in dead end jobs too scared to make the change????
Dirk......we may not be about to use 2P as the world's shining example of perserverance, but if he does owe the olds money, is he going to be in a better position to repay it on $120K (assuming that is the correct starting figure) or flying some 5-cylinder C210 out of 'The Crack' for the 'love of it????'
Horses for courses people! If one doesn't have the "passion".....then what is the sense in pressing on with it????
He can always come back with this almighty "shortage" looming.
RFKB
Dirk......we may not be about to use 2P as the world's shining example of perserverance, but if he does owe the olds money, is he going to be in a better position to repay it on $120K (assuming that is the correct starting figure) or flying some 5-cylinder C210 out of 'The Crack' for the 'love of it????'
Horses for courses people! If one doesn't have the "passion".....then what is the sense in pressing on with it????
He can always come back with this almighty "shortage" looming.
RFKB
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Dear 2p!ssed2drive
23 with 1200 or so hours was like me after 2 years in Kununurra. Then left for twin jobs back east for two years, now have Regional Command. This year is pretty crazy with regard to Jet intakes. I have two good opportunities with Jet jobs in Oz this year. So 4 years on 2p!ssed2drive you could too.
But.... as like most people there have been tough times. My car is still sh!t house but I've drank lots of beer, made lots of great mates. If you have a quitters attitude then its not your industry. A little perspective can take you a long way. And if you don't come back, then in 3/4 years or less some other pilot who isn't a quitter can know that he has one les pilot to compete against for a Jet/Turboprop job. Good luck with new career..champ
23 with 1200 or so hours was like me after 2 years in Kununurra. Then left for twin jobs back east for two years, now have Regional Command. This year is pretty crazy with regard to Jet intakes. I have two good opportunities with Jet jobs in Oz this year. So 4 years on 2p!ssed2drive you could too.
But.... as like most people there have been tough times. My car is still sh!t house but I've drank lots of beer, made lots of great mates. If you have a quitters attitude then its not your industry. A little perspective can take you a long way. And if you don't come back, then in 3/4 years or less some other pilot who isn't a quitter can know that he has one les pilot to compete against for a Jet/Turboprop job. Good luck with new career..champ
AustralianMade
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2P2D,
Thanks for the PM mate.
Although you didn't specify, my money goes to:
Good luck 2P2D.
Thanks for the PM mate.
Although you didn't specify, my money goes to:
Last week I was offered a job that pays $120, 000 a year (on the job training)- only because of my highschool subjects I chose to study.
Hell, I'm gonna take it.
Hell, I'm gonna take it.
...another lost to the mining boom?
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there's quite a few PM's going on in the background here...
there are some good guys in this industry.
thanks for you encouragement.
it appears after a good kick up the bum and some good advice....
i'll be back after I gather a few George Washingtons...
there are some good guys in this industry.
thanks for you encouragement.
it appears after a good kick up the bum and some good advice....
i'll be back after I gather a few George Washingtons...
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............the few left standing at the end of the day job wise in flying will be those few that purely love flying, all else such as common sense (better money/conditions outside the aviation industry) goes by the wayside when your hoplessly hooked on flying:-)
capt wally :-)
capt wally :-)
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Alternative finance...
About 3 years ago, at age 20, I realised that if I wasn't prepared to drop bombs on people then I would have to find a means of financing what I have long wanted to do. My high school results were less than impressive so it seemed the only means I had to save some money was $10.00 p/h unskilled labour. It seemed like it would take forever!
One day someone through a book in my lap about real estate investment. It was a bit of a Tony Robins job but opened the door for me to a new way of thinking about aquiring funds. I decided that the quickest way to getting this money together would be to buy a house. Obviously, prior to doing so I carried out lots of research into growth areas, return on investment ratios etc etc.
Anyhow, 3 years later I worked as I would have done anyway putting every spare cent on the loan, not paying rent to someone else and improving the place with the little money left over. I now have accumulated around 40K and will be getting the house revalued in a month of two to gain control of any extra equity. Without giving my self too much of a pat on the back it has taken much persistence, commitment, forsight and patience. But I would recommend it to anyone struggling to find the money to live their dream. The house is currently renting, and I invisage that by the time I am ready for the airlines, their will have been enough growth to pay for a type rating if need be. I believe that with the apparent climate of the aviation industry, this little house will be my "back up plan" that was mentioned in ealier threads.
Just thought I'd share a little success story as much of the discussion on the forum is, although seemingly warranted, vaguely depressing. However, this will not deter me, the concept of not making it work is no longer present in my mindset as I have proved to myself that with a little thought and planning, commitment and willpower go along way! And also that I have the dedication and patience to make it to the end!
The hardest part for me is choosing which school to learn with, however, since research is the key, I'm sure the choice will soon become abundently clear. Any recommendations of good schools in the Brisbane area would be greatly appreciated!
Anyway, thats my 2 bob worth of happy chappy... I'm sure someone will have something critical in nature to say...
One day someone through a book in my lap about real estate investment. It was a bit of a Tony Robins job but opened the door for me to a new way of thinking about aquiring funds. I decided that the quickest way to getting this money together would be to buy a house. Obviously, prior to doing so I carried out lots of research into growth areas, return on investment ratios etc etc.
Anyhow, 3 years later I worked as I would have done anyway putting every spare cent on the loan, not paying rent to someone else and improving the place with the little money left over. I now have accumulated around 40K and will be getting the house revalued in a month of two to gain control of any extra equity. Without giving my self too much of a pat on the back it has taken much persistence, commitment, forsight and patience. But I would recommend it to anyone struggling to find the money to live their dream. The house is currently renting, and I invisage that by the time I am ready for the airlines, their will have been enough growth to pay for a type rating if need be. I believe that with the apparent climate of the aviation industry, this little house will be my "back up plan" that was mentioned in ealier threads.
Just thought I'd share a little success story as much of the discussion on the forum is, although seemingly warranted, vaguely depressing. However, this will not deter me, the concept of not making it work is no longer present in my mindset as I have proved to myself that with a little thought and planning, commitment and willpower go along way! And also that I have the dedication and patience to make it to the end!
The hardest part for me is choosing which school to learn with, however, since research is the key, I'm sure the choice will soon become abundently clear. Any recommendations of good schools in the Brisbane area would be greatly appreciated!
Anyway, thats my 2 bob worth of happy chappy
... I'm sure someone will have something critical in nature to say...
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Would I recommend a career in aviation......absolutely. I still think its the best job in the world. Sure, all my mates who did trades/uni courses after highschool are in a far better financial position than I am (it has taken me 8 years to pay off debts) and will probably retire in a much stronger position than me. But in my opinion, when I retire, I would have seen a lot of the world, had some great times and will be able to sit back and think " I spent my entire working career having fun doing something I loved". Money has never been a motivation for me and I would not change careers if they cut my pay in half tomorrow. So sure....I would recommend a career in aviation to someone...as long as they had a passion for flying and aviation. If you do this job for $$$$ you would not last 5 min.
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Years ago (pre 90's)there was a bit of money to be made by the airlines.
The price of airframes and fuel was lower and the airfares higher.This was prior to deregulation.
Now we have low cost carriers paying low wages but providing more jobs.
A lot of flying jobs are still better than most desk jobs though!
My advice to people starting out is to make a 5 year plan and go for it!
The price of airframes and fuel was lower and the airfares higher.This was prior to deregulation.
Now we have low cost carriers paying low wages but providing more jobs.
A lot of flying jobs are still better than most desk jobs though!
My advice to people starting out is to make a 5 year plan and go for it!