Air NZ and Emirates
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27/09
Thats the best summary of the whole Ansett fiasco...and ties in VERY VERY closly with the version of events explained to me by an EX ansett employee who was in a position to know...
But it was still the fault of those Air NZ B'stards (not)
Thats the best summary of the whole Ansett fiasco...and ties in VERY VERY closly with the version of events explained to me by an EX ansett employee who was in a position to know...
But it was still the fault of those Air NZ B'stards (not)
The previous two posters support 27/09's vivid recollection of the demise of Ansett Australia.
The whole basis of his point is about Ansett being shut-down twice over maintenance issues.
Ansett was only ever shut-down once - When the NZ government came to bail out Air New Zealand and told to dump Ansett in September 2001.
As the previous posters said, "Best summary" and "bit close to the truth".
Pity there was little truth used.
halas
The whole basis of his point is about Ansett being shut-down twice over maintenance issues.
Ansett was only ever shut-down once - When the NZ government came to bail out Air New Zealand and told to dump Ansett in September 2001.
As the previous posters said, "Best summary" and "bit close to the truth".
Pity there was little truth used.
halas
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but before we do......
If EMIRATES Team New Zealand win the Americas Cup dont expect to see the next challange on Auckland harbour, it will be out of the Dubai Marina...now thats fact!
If EMIRATES Team New Zealand win the Americas Cup dont expect to see the next challange on Auckland harbour, it will be out of the Dubai Marina...now thats fact!
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Of course no blame can be directed at all to Air NZ for the demise of Ansett.
It's wonderfully competent management knew the exact financial position of Ansett when they did their thorough due diligence prior to the purchase....
- not!
It's wonderfully competent management knew the exact financial position of Ansett when they did their thorough due diligence prior to the purchase....
- not!
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EK buying Air NZ
now that wold be the scariest news ever for those Kiwis! What L1011 said about the chairman of EK being elligible for citizenship and hence satisfying the 50% criteria would be a real blow ...but I am sure the NZ government (Which owns 80% of Air NZ) would not alow such a move, on political grounds anyway....nonetheless, having said that, Air NZ shares are performing so strongly that the NZ Govt may be considering cashing in on part or all of it's 80% holdings in the national airline...and who would be more the willing buyer?...EK!
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Agreed T.R - Ansett was a basket case - even the outgoing Rod Eddington described it as a "great airline but a bad business". The last 12 months were probably the least enjoyable I have spent in any form of employment . I could see the writing on the wall and regret the decision not to have taken the last redundancy offered.
What I find is interesting is that there were only 2 airlines expressing any interest in Ansett - Air NZ and SQ. I am sure that if Air NZ had performed the normal due diligence they would have not gone near it.
That would have left SQ - and Q.F lobbied hard to successfully to stop a sale of Ansett to SQ as it would have caused them a huge deal of commercial damage as ,all of a sudden, Q.F would be facing a larger and more cashed up competitor. Whether the decision was right or wrong is water under the bridge , but it would have been fascinating to see how the government would have reacted to having to make a decision to let Ansett go bust or allow SQ to buy it and upset the strong Max Moore Wilton - Geoff Dixon camp at Q.F . What a stoush that would have been ! What would the industry be like today if SQ had been given ministerial permission to buy Ansett? The mind boggles.
As for all the conspiracy theories regarding the grounding of Ansett's 767's . I simply don't believe them . They were tired old clapped out aircraft . As cabin crew I couldn't believe the run down state of the interiors. I stopped writing cabin defect forms because nothing was acted on. At one of the Ansett wakes I attended I was fortunate to have a really good long chat with some of the Ginger Beers who told me a few truths about the 767's -eg lack of parts , blades worn to minimum etc. One told me , and not tongue in cheek, that Ansett was bloody lucky it didn't kill people in the last year of it's operation - that statement almost sobered me up for a second or two!
Anyway , I've moved on to better things and a happy life - even flown on Air NZ a few times - they are a good service airline. You can't blame the soldiers for the crap decisions of their Generals.
Good luck to you all.
What I find is interesting is that there were only 2 airlines expressing any interest in Ansett - Air NZ and SQ. I am sure that if Air NZ had performed the normal due diligence they would have not gone near it.
That would have left SQ - and Q.F lobbied hard to successfully to stop a sale of Ansett to SQ as it would have caused them a huge deal of commercial damage as ,all of a sudden, Q.F would be facing a larger and more cashed up competitor. Whether the decision was right or wrong is water under the bridge , but it would have been fascinating to see how the government would have reacted to having to make a decision to let Ansett go bust or allow SQ to buy it and upset the strong Max Moore Wilton - Geoff Dixon camp at Q.F . What a stoush that would have been ! What would the industry be like today if SQ had been given ministerial permission to buy Ansett? The mind boggles.
As for all the conspiracy theories regarding the grounding of Ansett's 767's . I simply don't believe them . They were tired old clapped out aircraft . As cabin crew I couldn't believe the run down state of the interiors. I stopped writing cabin defect forms because nothing was acted on. At one of the Ansett wakes I attended I was fortunate to have a really good long chat with some of the Ginger Beers who told me a few truths about the 767's -eg lack of parts , blades worn to minimum etc. One told me , and not tongue in cheek, that Ansett was bloody lucky it didn't kill people in the last year of it's operation - that statement almost sobered me up for a second or two!
Anyway , I've moved on to better things and a happy life - even flown on Air NZ a few times - they are a good service airline. You can't blame the soldiers for the crap decisions of their Generals.
Good luck to you all.
Last edited by priapism; 15th Feb 2007 at 23:04. Reason: more beer
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Emirates Auckland Base
Anyone know when Emirates is opening its Auckland crew base?
7 odd years to 380/777 command at EK with NZ basing and option of earlier retirement beats the h
ll out of 15-20 years to 777 FO at AIR NZ and grinding away till '65.
7 odd years to 380/777 command at EK with NZ basing and option of earlier retirement beats the h
ll out of 15-20 years to 777 FO at AIR NZ and grinding away till '65.
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Auckland base has been rumoured for years...since they started operating there. I've got a mate who resigned from a 777 command a year ago, and believe me, he wouldn't have done so if there was a chance of an Auckland basing coming up.
Don't hold ya breath!
Don't hold ya breath!
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I posted this in 2004. Nothing, including global warming, has altered the facts.
I hate to ruin a good stoush so will go no further back in time than the late 90's.
Personally, I think our friend the Night Owl gives conspiratorial credit where it is not totally due.
Indeed Singapore plays a central role in this pantomine but for somewhat different reasons. By 2000 it had long become the HQ of one Brierley Investments, the major shareholder in AirNZ and therefore indirectly a major figure in the 50% of Ansett not owned by News Corp.
Air NZ had pre-emptive rights on the balance 50% of Ansett should it come up for sale.
News Corp wanted and needed to exit. They found a buyer in SQ and spent a lot of time stitching together a deal for AUD 500m that would ensure the recapitalisation and fleet renewal of Ansett and provide a footprint for the Star Alliance in Oceania.
Whilst I agree that AirNZ tried to blindside and outsmart SQ, this was only cobbled together in response to immense pressure from Selwyn Cushing and his fellow travellers who shared the same conflict of interest...namely being directors of both Brierley and AirNZ.
Air NZ,given the price they paid for the first 50% of Ansett, and through them Brierley, would have to make substantial write-downs on their investments (AirNZ in Ansett and Brierley in AirNZ) if the direct deal between Ansett and SQ went through.
Selwyn Cushing used his immense influence (and Brierley voting block) as Chairman of AirNZ to force AirNZ to bet the whole company.
Sure they banked on the NZ Govt to come to their rescue, and there was a certain amount of naive arrogance in thinking that SQ would pour good money after bad, but that all came after Selwyn Cushing (as Chairman of AirNZ and Brierley) decided to put HIS national carrier at risk to protect Brierley Investments balance sheet (which could ill afford to take a write down of that magnitude).
In my view the Hall of Shame is missing one potrait...and one that is very much alive and indeed very wealthy at the expense of
many.
Well he may be knighted but I suggest he be better stuffed and mounted in the above Hall of Shame.
I hate to ruin a good stoush so will go no further back in time than the late 90's.
Personally, I think our friend the Night Owl gives conspiratorial credit where it is not totally due.
Indeed Singapore plays a central role in this pantomine but for somewhat different reasons. By 2000 it had long become the HQ of one Brierley Investments, the major shareholder in AirNZ and therefore indirectly a major figure in the 50% of Ansett not owned by News Corp.
Air NZ had pre-emptive rights on the balance 50% of Ansett should it come up for sale.
News Corp wanted and needed to exit. They found a buyer in SQ and spent a lot of time stitching together a deal for AUD 500m that would ensure the recapitalisation and fleet renewal of Ansett and provide a footprint for the Star Alliance in Oceania.
Whilst I agree that AirNZ tried to blindside and outsmart SQ, this was only cobbled together in response to immense pressure from Selwyn Cushing and his fellow travellers who shared the same conflict of interest...namely being directors of both Brierley and AirNZ.
Air NZ,given the price they paid for the first 50% of Ansett, and through them Brierley, would have to make substantial write-downs on their investments (AirNZ in Ansett and Brierley in AirNZ) if the direct deal between Ansett and SQ went through.
Selwyn Cushing used his immense influence (and Brierley voting block) as Chairman of AirNZ to force AirNZ to bet the whole company.
Sure they banked on the NZ Govt to come to their rescue, and there was a certain amount of naive arrogance in thinking that SQ would pour good money after bad, but that all came after Selwyn Cushing (as Chairman of AirNZ and Brierley) decided to put HIS national carrier at risk to protect Brierley Investments balance sheet (which could ill afford to take a write down of that magnitude).
In my view the Hall of Shame is missing one potrait...and one that is very much alive and indeed very wealthy at the expense of
many.
Well he may be knighted but I suggest he be better stuffed and mounted in the above Hall of Shame.
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Gees! enough ancient history guys. Get over it or start up another thread where you can dwell on the nastier side of our industry and we don't have to be involved. Please!
EK may be short of crew (they are yet to admit it) and would probably jump at the opportunity to pick up 60 experienced crew but it would be on their terms. Employing another airlines crew for a couple of years just would not be attractive to them. No unions over here and that is how they will want to keep it.
They could get many, many more pilots by simply starting bases up around their network. You would also have to provide a copy of your letter of termination from your previous employer before they let you sign on as well.
Employing such a group and basing them in NZ or OZ or where ever, would also create a huge problem with the NZ and OZ expats over here who are desperate to go home.
However, nothing surprizes me over here anymore. Just like driving on the roads here, expect the unexpected all the time and you could be right.
EK may be short of crew (they are yet to admit it) and would probably jump at the opportunity to pick up 60 experienced crew but it would be on their terms. Employing another airlines crew for a couple of years just would not be attractive to them. No unions over here and that is how they will want to keep it.
They could get many, many more pilots by simply starting bases up around their network. You would also have to provide a copy of your letter of termination from your previous employer before they let you sign on as well.
Employing such a group and basing them in NZ or OZ or where ever, would also create a huge problem with the NZ and OZ expats over here who are desperate to go home.
However, nothing surprizes me over here anymore. Just like driving on the roads here, expect the unexpected all the time and you could be right.
1989 confirmed what we already knew about Australians from the underarm bowling debacle.
And the shearers strike taught us all about Kiwis.
Air New Zealand and Emirates deserve each other BTW.
