TAF format changes
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4
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From: Australia
TAF format changes
All in favour say "aye".
Just reading through the new crash comic and the debate about "plain english" met forecasts seem to be getting some legs.
Personaly, I would very much like to see the BoM be forced to do this for the sake of clarity and, IMHO, for the sake of operational reality.
I can't count the ammount of times they have got it wrong and manage to hide behind a set of rules which seem to leave them absolutly bullet proof. It's not the minor items like the temp being a couple of degrees out or the wind 30 - 40 degrees off or a bit more cloud than forecast. It's having to carry 60 holding in virtual CAVOK, or worse, turning up and finding that a full on IAL is required. I feel that if they were forced out from behind their carefully constructed screen, Met info might actually become an effective tool again.
Great chance to exercise the new found pilot unity, much mentioned here. If we can stick together on an issue that helps all, perhaps we can all get the bigger picture sorted.
Just my two bob's worth.
Just reading through the new crash comic and the debate about "plain english" met forecasts seem to be getting some legs.
Personaly, I would very much like to see the BoM be forced to do this for the sake of clarity and, IMHO, for the sake of operational reality.
I can't count the ammount of times they have got it wrong and manage to hide behind a set of rules which seem to leave them absolutly bullet proof. It's not the minor items like the temp being a couple of degrees out or the wind 30 - 40 degrees off or a bit more cloud than forecast. It's having to carry 60 holding in virtual CAVOK, or worse, turning up and finding that a full on IAL is required. I feel that if they were forced out from behind their carefully constructed screen, Met info might actually become an effective tool again.
Great chance to exercise the new found pilot unity, much mentioned here. If we can stick together on an issue that helps all, perhaps we can all get the bigger picture sorted.
Just my two bob's worth.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 590
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From: Sydney, Australia
Sounds like they are trying to pander to the lowest common denominator - ie: Sports pilots/private pilots that cant be bothered to either learn or use an internationally recognised method of coding met reports.
This is the ICAO standard used by pilot bodies worldwide.
Have to agree with AerocatS2A wholeheartedly.
An ACARS report sent to an aircraft can be 3 or 4 lines (currently) or numerous pages if these clowns at the bottom end of the gene pool have their way.
There is an internationally agreed standard you guys for MET reports.
Its not brilliant, but is effective and allows pilots from anywhere in the world to operate to anywhere in the world and understand the weather at the other end!
If some of you guys want a plain language forecast for Bumf@*k Idaho then petition the bureau of MET and get a user pays service!
This is the ICAO standard used by pilot bodies worldwide.
Have to agree with AerocatS2A wholeheartedly.
An ACARS report sent to an aircraft can be 3 or 4 lines (currently) or numerous pages if these clowns at the bottom end of the gene pool have their way.
There is an internationally agreed standard you guys for MET reports.
Its not brilliant, but is effective and allows pilots from anywhere in the world to operate to anywhere in the world and understand the weather at the other end!
If some of you guys want a plain language forecast for Bumf@*k Idaho then petition the bureau of MET and get a user pays service!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 6
From: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Standard met forecast is, morning light winds followed by southerly change chance of showers this arvo.
- Will a forecast like that require an alternate?
How will you judge whether you will need extra fuel or not? (yes i know current forecasting is hit and miss - and most of the time we adjust fuel based on what we think/experience)
Will there be magic catchphrases - like "weather will be crap, carry an hours fuel"
- Will a forecast like that require an alternate?
How will you judge whether you will need extra fuel or not? (yes i know current forecasting is hit and miss - and most of the time we adjust fuel based on what we think/experience)
Will there be magic catchphrases - like "weather will be crap, carry an hours fuel"
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 6
From: Brisbane
Although I have a certain amount of sympathy for the recreational pilots who are pushing for the change, I believe that to be worthy of the title of PILOT you have a responsibility to educate yourself to a level that can interpret weather information presented in an internationally agreed format.
If you indeed need the information contained in a met forecast, it follows that you must be piloting something more than just a powered hang glider... so a professional piloting attitude is a requisite for such activities.
If you indeed need the information contained in a met forecast, it follows that you must be piloting something more than just a powered hang glider... so a professional piloting attitude is a requisite for such activities.
Joined: Nov 2001
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 538
Likes: 1
From: Oz
Current presentation of TAFs is great and does not need changing.
I remember as a student getting to know what all the abbreviations meant. Nearly all jobs/pastimes have lingo, acronoyms etc. If you want to partake, it's up to you to learn that lingo.
Rather than trying to fix a system that isn't broken, their time could be better spent by learning the abbreviations, rather than complaining about it.
I remember as a student getting to know what all the abbreviations meant. Nearly all jobs/pastimes have lingo, acronoyms etc. If you want to partake, it's up to you to learn that lingo.
Rather than trying to fix a system that isn't broken, their time could be better spent by learning the abbreviations, rather than complaining about it.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 132
From: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Ditto,
What the hell is wrong with the TAF format? It gives you the exact info you need and more imprtantly the exact times significant changes will be occuring. Its not that complicated to learn, damn even when I had a GFPT I remember only occasionly needing to look up a code because it was used rarely. If you want a plain language forecast look on the back of the newspaper!
Next we will have be would be doctors asking for a "Surgery for Dummies" book to be released!
What the hell is wrong with the TAF format? It gives you the exact info you need and more imprtantly the exact times significant changes will be occuring. Its not that complicated to learn, damn even when I had a GFPT I remember only occasionly needing to look up a code because it was used rarely. If you want a plain language forecast look on the back of the newspaper!
Next we will have be would be doctors asking for a "Surgery for Dummies" book to be released!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: USA
Well apparently it's too hard for the poor babies getting into the industry these days to understand. It's worked well for many years, there's no need to change it.
Maybe what we're seeing is a result of the standards of basic education these days.
Maybe what we're seeing is a result of the standards of basic education these days.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 331
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From: Brisbane, Australia
We have 30 to 40 pages of briefing stuff to wade through as it is. And people want to make it 35 to 45 pages?
Spare me. Time people turned their attention to the IMPORTANT issues facing aviation in this country.
Spare me. Time people turned their attention to the IMPORTANT issues facing aviation in this country.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4
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From: Australia
Sorry - unclear
Sorry, not clear enough. For the record, I don't have an interperatation problem with the TAF/ Met in it's current format warts and all. Although from an operational and legal standpoint, innacurate reports can get me cranky.
I just wondered what the take was on changes to the format. There has been a lot talk and writing about it. I was simply curious. No offence meant.
I just wondered what the take was on changes to the format. There has been a lot talk and writing about it. I was simply curious. No offence meant.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 264
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From: in them thar hills
First the good old written exams went to multi-choice (great win for good guessers and gamblers), then they dropped Morse code (gave the memory-challenged and tone deaf a chance) now you want the wx in English? What next, licences issued via an internet donation to the University of Lagos? Let's keep it just a little more difficult than a cabbie licence, please.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 95
From: moon
Timmeee, Thank you for your comments about us private pilots at the lower end of the gene pool.
I don't know of any who have problems reading the forecasts.
By the way, do you have any idea why and how the specific codes and formats were developed?
I don't know of any who have problems reading the forecasts.
By the way, do you have any idea why and how the specific codes and formats were developed?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 48
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From: Anito
This morning's ARFOR for area 30 had: "VISBILITY- 500M FG, Smoke"
So why is for FOG given in code and smoke in plain English?
As for the PPL's, all they need to know to decode is CAVOK. No CAVOK on the forecast, no fly. Simple.
So why is for FOG given in code and smoke in plain English?
As for the PPL's, all they need to know to decode is CAVOK. No CAVOK on the forecast, no fly. Simple.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,419
Likes: 853
From: Brisvegas
This morning's ARFOR for area 30 had: "VISBILITY- 500M FG, Smoke"
So why is for FOG given in code and smoke in plain English?
So why is for FOG given in code and smoke in plain English?
