Pilots to fight for Qantas
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
Wingspar. I'm cool with it that it was a win. This was my earlier quote with some of the side isssues taken out of it.
I think it's been great for those affected by the downturn on the A330 due to J*- which Mulder had neglected to mention had happened on earlier regimes watches. However don't ignore the fact that 'we' (as in all of us) took a pay freeze (with it's resultant impact on pay rates, Super, etc) to get it.
How much have earlier regimes cost all of us in promotions by not being pro-active enough with Impulse and J* pilots from 2001 onwards?
This is not about slagging out the previous regimes and saying they did nothing. This is about putting into perspective some of the spin that people like Mulder try on by only telling half the story. I'm more than happy to do the same thing in a few years time if someone tries the same with 'NewAIPA'. In fact I did that with one of the COM Exec recently. He tried some spin and I told him that it was crap and that none of us really cared for it unless it came with a result. Being critical of one area or one aspect (or even a number of aspects) does not automatically mean lack of support or appreciation for ongoing efforts. Although part of the previous regime I have immense respect for Bryan Welch and what he has achieved. I remember saying on Qrewroom when the ARG got up that we had thrown a few babies out with the bath water. I still maintain that stance.
Good day all. Off to play with the kids.
151 was a win for sure. We also took a pay freeze to get it. Result for majority of pilots? Zero.
How much have earlier regimes cost all of us in promotions by not being pro-active enough with Impulse and J* pilots from 2001 onwards?
This is not about slagging out the previous regimes and saying they did nothing. This is about putting into perspective some of the spin that people like Mulder try on by only telling half the story. I'm more than happy to do the same thing in a few years time if someone tries the same with 'NewAIPA'. In fact I did that with one of the COM Exec recently. He tried some spin and I told him that it was crap and that none of us really cared for it unless it came with a result. Being critical of one area or one aspect (or even a number of aspects) does not automatically mean lack of support or appreciation for ongoing efforts. Although part of the previous regime I have immense respect for Bryan Welch and what he has achieved. I remember saying on Qrewroom when the ARG got up that we had thrown a few babies out with the bath water. I still maintain that stance.
Good day all. Off to play with the kids.
I'm not about to get into a point scoring exercise with you Keg. It is however profoundly disappointing to see that someone who has traditionally been a stalwart of Qantas on PPRuNe has succumbed to the same cynicism that is eroding the profession from within.
It is a far greater threat to your future than any erosion from without.
Again: "Earnesty and sincerity does not win negotiations. It wins votes."
It is a far greater threat to your future than any erosion from without.
Again: "Earnesty and sincerity does not win negotiations. It wins votes."
Last edited by LTBC; 23rd Dec 2006 at 01:31.
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Sonny Hammond
Yeah you're right
Things are so much better over here, what with our open and transparent CPI figures, great management, excellent rostering, huge housing allowance, education allowance, overtime and callout pay.
We do however have a minimum salary, which doesn't get reduced if we go sick, unless of course someone decides that it will.
It seems fairly clear then, what are you doing. Why aren't you over here with us. Come and join the fun and forget about all those headaches associated with living in OZ, like tax, workchoices and sick pay.
I look forward to receiving your application.
V
Things are so much better over here, what with our open and transparent CPI figures, great management, excellent rostering, huge housing allowance, education allowance, overtime and callout pay.
We do however have a minimum salary, which doesn't get reduced if we go sick, unless of course someone decides that it will.
It seems fairly clear then, what are you doing. Why aren't you over here with us. Come and join the fun and forget about all those headaches associated with living in OZ, like tax, workchoices and sick pay.
I look forward to receiving your application.
V
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All my point is that I don't believe that any airlines rates that well these days. Particularly when compared to other professions.
Qf has this, ek has that.
Generally the no1 point of benefit for pilots is/has been promotion. EK does have that, QF does not.
To add insult to injury QF is really about to take it to it's pilots.
No one's a winner really, except the bean counters.
Qf has this, ek has that.
Generally the no1 point of benefit for pilots is/has been promotion. EK does have that, QF does not.
To add insult to injury QF is really about to take it to it's pilots.
No one's a winner really, except the bean counters.
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Keg,
For a bloke who has delivered nothing to the profession. For you to judge those who have raised their hand and tried to progress your profession is laughable.
Have a go! Might be a bit different to facilitating CRM courses (which you were paid for) when you volunteer to work for the greater good of the profession.
Always there for a comment and opinion. With a QF supplied job and training and ground position your whinging is very hollow!
For a bloke who has delivered nothing to the profession. For you to judge those who have raised their hand and tried to progress your profession is laughable.
Have a go! Might be a bit different to facilitating CRM courses (which you were paid for) when you volunteer to work for the greater good of the profession.
Always there for a comment and opinion. With a QF supplied job and training and ground position your whinging is very hollow!
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Yeah, I am directing this at you directly as you believe that making broad statements of your beliefs does not constitute an attack on people.
Well, here's a broad statement,
"Your training up until ATPL licence was paid for by Qantas"
Your miserable attitude is a by product of the entitlement mentality that exists amongst you and your peers who have be institutionalised for the better part of your careers.
Fix the problems or whinge and piss off.
Your writings on forums such as this do nothing to advance any issue. They just portray you as a spoilt brat who is incapable of finding solutions. Hiding from ops due to fellow pilots going sick is not an innovative solution to secure your future.
Having never been a party to any negotiation your opinion is so they say like an arsehole “everybody has one”!
Well, here's a broad statement,
"Your training up until ATPL licence was paid for by Qantas"
Your miserable attitude is a by product of the entitlement mentality that exists amongst you and your peers who have be institutionalised for the better part of your careers.
Fix the problems or whinge and piss off.
Your writings on forums such as this do nothing to advance any issue. They just portray you as a spoilt brat who is incapable of finding solutions. Hiding from ops due to fellow pilots going sick is not an innovative solution to secure your future.
Having never been a party to any negotiation your opinion is so they say like an arsehole “everybody has one”!
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
Mulder, you need to try harder because the Christmas cheer obviously hasn't worked. You need to relax a bit because the animosity and bile will end up giving you a hear attack. 
I would have picked up the phone and called by now however I don't know you. You obviously know me (no secret there as the bloody Chief Pilot knows who Keg is) so again I tell you to pick up the phone and give me a call if you want to actually discuss the issues in any depth. Given that I can't call you due to your anonymity allow me to offer the following points.
Interesting to note your opinion that because I was a cadet some fourteen years ago that I'm not able or worthy to have my own opinion on matters of QF pay and conditions and the effectiveness of various AIPA regimes during my 12 years of service as a QF pilot.
Interesting to note your opinion that only those who have been on COM are allowed to have an opinion on the performance of other AIPA COMs. Have you ever voiced an opinion on the PM- publically or otherwise? How can you possibly do that if you've never done the job and 'had a go'.
It gives me pause to wonder if you'd consider my opinions on the flight deck as equally invalid because I'm an ex cadet.
Interesting to note your opinion that because I have a job in QF (and had a ground job) that I can't voice an opinion either. Why is that? You voice an opinion and have much right to do so as me or anyone else. Sure everyone has one. A newsflash may be that some of them may even be right and accurate and play a part in ensuring that change occurs. Some of them may be wrong. To attack someone on the basis of having one though is an interesting position to take. Your position seems to be that you'd prefer the rank and file to be 'seen and not heard'. Right or wrong I'd prefer subordinates/ anyone to have and voice an opinion than be a sheep and just follow the rest of the pack. I note your opinion that you prefer those who are seen and not heard.
Interesting that your opinion is that only those who work in the IR realm 'further the profession'. Personally I feel that those who work in training development, training implementation, engineering and systems, and yes, even Human Factors, all work for the greater good of the profession- paid or not. Still, if it is your opinion that those people don't work for the greater good of the profession then nothing I say will change your mind.
I'm on Annual Leave. It's called an ad-hoc leave request. I was astounded that I got it. The other half a dozen crew I've spoken to who are senior to me are cursing the fact they didn't stick in a bid. The only hiding I'm doing is from the 'riots' that frequent Cronulla and QF flight Ops from time to time. Other than that I'm simply not required to be available. Still, if you really knew me you'd know about the leave. 
Newsflash. I haven't worked a ground job for more than 12 months. Best 12 months of my life. Again if you really knew me you'd know that.
How about that beer? You know my name and you know how to find my number. Just don't start the phone call with 'This is [INSERT NAME HERE] from Qantas Operations, is First Officer Lucas available?.
I would have picked up the phone and called by now however I don't know you. You obviously know me (no secret there as the bloody Chief Pilot knows who Keg is) so again I tell you to pick up the phone and give me a call if you want to actually discuss the issues in any depth. Given that I can't call you due to your anonymity allow me to offer the following points.Interesting to note your opinion that because I was a cadet some fourteen years ago that I'm not able or worthy to have my own opinion on matters of QF pay and conditions and the effectiveness of various AIPA regimes during my 12 years of service as a QF pilot.
Interesting to note your opinion that only those who have been on COM are allowed to have an opinion on the performance of other AIPA COMs. Have you ever voiced an opinion on the PM- publically or otherwise? How can you possibly do that if you've never done the job and 'had a go'.
It gives me pause to wonder if you'd consider my opinions on the flight deck as equally invalid because I'm an ex cadet.Interesting to note your opinion that because I have a job in QF (and had a ground job) that I can't voice an opinion either. Why is that? You voice an opinion and have much right to do so as me or anyone else. Sure everyone has one. A newsflash may be that some of them may even be right and accurate and play a part in ensuring that change occurs. Some of them may be wrong. To attack someone on the basis of having one though is an interesting position to take. Your position seems to be that you'd prefer the rank and file to be 'seen and not heard'. Right or wrong I'd prefer subordinates/ anyone to have and voice an opinion than be a sheep and just follow the rest of the pack. I note your opinion that you prefer those who are seen and not heard.
Interesting that your opinion is that only those who work in the IR realm 'further the profession'. Personally I feel that those who work in training development, training implementation, engineering and systems, and yes, even Human Factors, all work for the greater good of the profession- paid or not. Still, if it is your opinion that those people don't work for the greater good of the profession then nothing I say will change your mind.
Hiding from ops due to fellow pilots going sick is not an innovative solution to secure your future.
ith a QF supplied job and training and ground position....
How about that beer? You know my name and you know how to find my number. Just don't start the phone call with 'This is [INSERT NAME HERE] from Qantas Operations, is First Officer Lucas available?.
