Now pilots = school principals
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Now pilots = school principals
AJ interview on radio 2GB today.
The salary that J* is offering pilots is very good compared to a school principal.
Outstanding comparison, where does he get this stuff?
The salary that J* is offering pilots is very good compared to a school principal.
Outstanding comparison, where does he get this stuff?
I wasn't aware that headmasters worked weekends or shift work or overnights or paid $30k for their training as headmaster, or were regualarly required to have medicals, check flights or sim sessions or ep's or dangerous goods any of which can end our career.
I generally like the Irish, but I can see why there are so many jokes about them!
I generally like the Irish, but I can see why there are so many jokes about them!
And I don't think pilots get 10 weeks off work a year, RIGHT in the middle of the schools holidays, EVERY YEAR. Now that would make planning your leave easy...
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I don't know why you all have this incessant need to compare our industry with others, it is an extremely unique industry and whilst conditions have seen a downturn in recent times, I for one expect to see improvement soon.
This industry may have some very tedious downsides (as you are all quick to point out), but it also provides it's own opportunites for those enterprising enough to take part, in life, all things are trade off. Take me for example, like all of you I may bitch and moan about rostering, pay, overnigths, etc... But in the last twelve months I have been overseas with my family 3 times, compare this to my friends, many of whom have never left Australia and the majority who probably never will!! Whilst they may earn considerably more than I do, International travel is but a dream for most of them.
You have to weigh up the good with the bad, when the bad out weighs the good it's time to leave, the door is always open. Of course it's much easier to stay put and shout, "the sky is falling".....
This industry may have some very tedious downsides (as you are all quick to point out), but it also provides it's own opportunites for those enterprising enough to take part, in life, all things are trade off. Take me for example, like all of you I may bitch and moan about rostering, pay, overnigths, etc... But in the last twelve months I have been overseas with my family 3 times, compare this to my friends, many of whom have never left Australia and the majority who probably never will!! Whilst they may earn considerably more than I do, International travel is but a dream for most of them.
You have to weigh up the good with the bad, when the bad out weighs the good it's time to leave, the door is always open. Of course it's much easier to stay put and shout, "the sky is falling".....
Howard
I think, if you refer to Murgatroid's post, it is AJ, the CEO of Jetstar, who's doing the industrial comparisons on this occasion. Perhaps you should talk to him about relevance! 
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When the ATCs had a dispute over the EBA about 5 years back, we were compared to similar occupations, namely 24/7 facilities like the Broadmeadows Ford assembly factory. Nice to know how the management types really feel about the people at the sharp end.
I liked the Chaser skit a few weeks back, where Julian asked AJ how much it would cost to stand "this close to him" (about 1 metre), and then how much it would cost to "call him a prick", then "an utter prick"; of course that was in relation to the job interview fee...
But how much does it cost, line-up, line-up...
I liked the Chaser skit a few weeks back, where Julian asked AJ how much it would cost to stand "this close to him" (about 1 metre), and then how much it would cost to "call him a prick", then "an utter prick"; of course that was in relation to the job interview fee...
But how much does it cost, line-up, line-up...
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Thinking about it. There probably is a bit in common.
School principals spend their days dealing with disruptive immature children, who lie, cheat, lack respect and who should know better.
A lot like dealing with management.
School principals spend their days dealing with disruptive immature children, who lie, cheat, lack respect and who should know better.
A lot like dealing with management.
Grandpa Aerotart
Sounds to me like they're sticking another PR nail in the pilot coffin...next they'll be comparing pilots to sundry other jobs...a slowly they will have got the message out to the public that these whinging pilots are paid more than ALL OF YOU and still they whinge
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Jetsbest,
I realise that it is AJ making the comparison in this case, but there have been numerous other times on these forums when pilots have been compared with anything from bus drivers (although thats generally management), to High Court Judges and everything in between.
My point was that if an individual finds themselves in a position where they feel under valued they can always vote with their feet! Comparing our skills with any other profession serves no purpose, this is an extremely unique profession that requires a unique skillset and has rewards that sometimes can't be measured in dollars and cents. So the only question that remains is how much each individual values themselves, when the good outweighs the bad, it's time to retire, or if your still young enough, buy a boat and go fishing...
I realise that it is AJ making the comparison in this case, but there have been numerous other times on these forums when pilots have been compared with anything from bus drivers (although thats generally management), to High Court Judges and everything in between.
My point was that if an individual finds themselves in a position where they feel under valued they can always vote with their feet! Comparing our skills with any other profession serves no purpose, this is an extremely unique profession that requires a unique skillset and has rewards that sometimes can't be measured in dollars and cents. So the only question that remains is how much each individual values themselves, when the good outweighs the bad, it's time to retire, or if your still young enough, buy a boat and go fishing...
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My point was that if an individual finds themselves in a position where they feel under valued they can always vote with their feet!
Last one out please turn the lighs off?
Don't worry about the clusterfuk that's the 400. You'll have no-one left to fly it anyhow
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My point was that if an individual finds themselves in a position where they feel under valued they can always vote with their feet!
It really is very simple: if you don't like what is on offer or what is being done, shut up and ship out. There are so many who just don't get the fact that the times are-a-changin'.
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Whoever said it is right.
Most pilots don't have degrees, and only about one in 50 teachers will ever head the team as the Principal whereas better than one in two will head the team as the Captain.
Is a principal worth more or less? I don't know, and surely there can't be a comparison the fields are so different.
Bear in mind that the guy in charge will do everything to devalue your job so he can justify paying you less. That's what you have to combat, not the comparisons.
BA Lert you're right. The times are a changin, and not just for us, but everybody. The industrial reforms that swept the world over the past 10-15 years are just starting to bite here. Good luck.
Howard I agree with you.
Most pilots don't have degrees, and only about one in 50 teachers will ever head the team as the Principal whereas better than one in two will head the team as the Captain.
Is a principal worth more or less? I don't know, and surely there can't be a comparison the fields are so different.
Bear in mind that the guy in charge will do everything to devalue your job so he can justify paying you less. That's what you have to combat, not the comparisons.
BA Lert you're right. The times are a changin, and not just for us, but everybody. The industrial reforms that swept the world over the past 10-15 years are just starting to bite here. Good luck.
Howard I agree with you.
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by JapJok
Is a principal worth more or less? I don't know, and surely there can't be a comparison the fields are so different.
It has been the subject of considerable discussion around the dinner table over the years. The verdict- invariably reached when I've missed another birthday or Christmas or whatever and aren't there to have an overt influence on the decision- is that I'm worth every penny I'm paid and probably worth a whole lot more. They also acknowledge that the issue isn't that pilots are overpaid but that school administrators are under paid- a point that Joyce doesn't articulate at all!
Which of the Jestar pilot salaries was AJ using to compare with school Principals?
1. J* Intl cruise relief F/O's
2. J* Intl F/O's
3. J* Dom F/O's
4. J* Dom Capt's (approx $130k)
5. J* Intl Line Capt's (approx $140k) - thanks JPG
6. J* Intl Line Capt's Ex Sandpit (approx $180k)
7. J* Intl Trng Capt's Ex Sandpit (approx $220k)
1. J* Intl cruise relief F/O's
2. J* Intl F/O's
3. J* Dom F/O's
4. J* Dom Capt's (approx $130k)
5. J* Intl Line Capt's (approx $140k) - thanks JPG
6. J* Intl Line Capt's Ex Sandpit (approx $180k)
7. J* Intl Trng Capt's Ex Sandpit (approx $220k)
Certainly interesting comparisons. Although I wonder why "Training Captains" (International or local) are paid a higher salary than ordinary line pilots. In the RAAF each squadron had a QFI/IRE which means Qualified Flying Instructor and Instrument Rating Examiner. There was no extra money involved because we were paid by rank (Flight Lieutenant, Squadron Leader etc) and to be selected as a QFI at an operational squadron was considered to be quite a privilege. The extra responsibilities were willingly taken on the shoulders. Not so, evidently, in civil aviation where even having an instrument rating is worth an increment in The Award system if it still exists.
I don’t see how people can complain about J* anymore. In my opinion the company offered a package below what I consider the average package out there around the world, probably expecting to have to raise it to get people to work for them, but no, folks gave in and flocked to them for some reason only known to them selves. Not a problem, just don’t ask me for support.
Flocked.. sounds like......
No Ejector, I don't think people flocked but forced J* to partially come to the market. Sure the JPC accepted a cr@p deal that did not mean 330 drivers would come home without barganing...
I seriously hope the EK guys were able to get 180-220 and have heard some even negotiated around 250K. Guess they had to sign confidentiality agreements so as to not offend the J* guys/gals, sold out by RH & co., so we may never know the truth.
Hear another 15 are also leaving the sandpit, hope this helps the P&C in EK.... may want to work their one day.
I seriously hope the EK guys were able to get 180-220 and have heard some even negotiated around 250K. Guess they had to sign confidentiality agreements so as to not offend the J* guys/gals, sold out by RH & co., so we may never know the truth.
Hear another 15 are also leaving the sandpit, hope this helps the P&C in EK.... may want to work their one day.
Originally Posted by Centaurus
Certainly interesting comparisons. Although I wonder why "Training Captains" (International or local) are paid a higher salary than ordinary line pilots. In the RAAF each squadron had a QFI/IRE which means Qualified Flying Instructor and Instrument Rating Examiner. There was no extra money involved because we were paid by rank (Flight Lieutenant, Squadron Leader etc) and to be selected as a QFI at an operational squadron was considered to be quite a privilege. The extra responsibilities were willingly taken on the shoulders. Not so, evidently, in civil aviation where even having an instrument rating is worth an increment in The Award system if it still exists.
The trouble with 'prestige' is it attract the wrong people as trainers- officious, incapable types. I have seen airlines lose millions of dollars with poor trainers when type introduction is cocked up or expansion windows missed.
Money talks. You know who are the capable guys who belong in training- pay for it and go and get them!
RAAF = Free training & Good T&C. Defending your country
G/A = Self funded training, poor pay and conditions. Getting shafted making some businessman rich.
If the boss is making money off me I want something in exchange for my efforts and recognition of what I paid to get the I/R in the first place.
G/A = Self funded training, poor pay and conditions. Getting shafted making some businessman rich.
If the boss is making money off me I want something in exchange for my efforts and recognition of what I paid to get the I/R in the first place.