Airline Moves For RAAF Top Guns
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Airline Moves For RAAF Top Guns
Anyone know anything about this from QF? Part time pilots? Are they government subsidised to make it beneficial to the airlines?
Considering there are many experienced pilots abroad and possibly even from within the two airlines, interested in part time flying, how would current RAAF pilots be a shoe in for such a deal?
Airline move for RAAF's top guns
Lincoln Wright
04jun06
AUSTRALIA'S "top gun" fighter pilots could be allowed to work part-time for Qantas or Virgin Blue under a radical bid to retain defence force staff.
Men and women aged over 55 would also be permitted to join under a new "Dad's Army" plan to recruit experienced workers into the Australian Defence Force.
Former drug users and asthmatics would also be passed under the plans being considered by Defence Minister Dr Brendan Nelson.
Another recommendation would see army, navy and air force recruits given a six-month "suck it and see" period to decide if they like it.
It costs $15 million to train an FA-18 pilot, but many leave for lucrative private sector jobs.
A report into how to retain defence force staff has recommended giving pilots who want to leave, options to stay.
That could involve leaving the air force for a period then returning or allowing service chiefs to strike better job contracts, one source said.
Qantas employs 2300 pilots and many come from the RAAF, a Qantas spokesman said.
Among the recommendations in the report by marketing expert Avril Henry was the plan for a flexible approach to pilots who want to make more money with private airlines.
Dr Nelson is impressed by the hiring practices of big defence contractors, who discuss "conditions and money" when hiring. "If we lose those people and we need them, there should be a capacity to deal with that and deal with it in a flexible manner from a government that's very committed to flexibility in the labour market," he said.
Considering there are many experienced pilots abroad and possibly even from within the two airlines, interested in part time flying, how would current RAAF pilots be a shoe in for such a deal?
Airline move for RAAF's top guns
Lincoln Wright
04jun06
AUSTRALIA'S "top gun" fighter pilots could be allowed to work part-time for Qantas or Virgin Blue under a radical bid to retain defence force staff.
Men and women aged over 55 would also be permitted to join under a new "Dad's Army" plan to recruit experienced workers into the Australian Defence Force.
Former drug users and asthmatics would also be passed under the plans being considered by Defence Minister Dr Brendan Nelson.
Another recommendation would see army, navy and air force recruits given a six-month "suck it and see" period to decide if they like it.
It costs $15 million to train an FA-18 pilot, but many leave for lucrative private sector jobs.
A report into how to retain defence force staff has recommended giving pilots who want to leave, options to stay.
That could involve leaving the air force for a period then returning or allowing service chiefs to strike better job contracts, one source said.
Qantas employs 2300 pilots and many come from the RAAF, a Qantas spokesman said.
Among the recommendations in the report by marketing expert Avril Henry was the plan for a flexible approach to pilots who want to make more money with private airlines.
Dr Nelson is impressed by the hiring practices of big defence contractors, who discuss "conditions and money" when hiring. "If we lose those people and we need them, there should be a capacity to deal with that and deal with it in a flexible manner from a government that's very committed to flexibility in the labour market," he said.
How about they work it the other way and let any airline pilot fly an F-18, Herc, Orion etc for a couple of days every month like a national guard sort of set up.
I'll put my hand up to burn heaps of juice at dot feet and I'll even get the radio work correct to help atc.
I'll put my hand up to burn heaps of juice at dot feet and I'll even get the radio work correct to help atc.
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You will never have a National Guard type setup here.
Those who run the Airforce would be too jealous to allow some QF First Officer on 2 or 3 times their salary to come and play with their toys on a part time basis.
Who ever came up with this cr*p is dreaming.
Those who run the Airforce would be too jealous to allow some QF First Officer on 2 or 3 times their salary to come and play with their toys on a part time basis.
Who ever came up with this cr*p is dreaming.
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RAAF retention rates would be a lot better if pilot's were allowed to be pilots and continue flying instead of doing secondary duties and unessesary admin work. Or extensive deployments for months on end on a two way firing range being worked into the ground so that some tosser can pat themselves on the back with the line "We're punching above our weight". Only to return to a complacent Joe Public that neither knew what you were doing overseas in the first place, nor could they give a rat's....
Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
It costs $15 million to train an FA-18 pilot, but many leave for lucrative private sector jobs.
The government should just let it all go and see what happens to pilot retention once Jetstar start doing the majority of QF flying.
The question I'd ask is what's in it for the airlines?
Lots of ex-military people have gone to airlines, of course, but if the concept is to have some of those coming back to service flying on a part-time basis, that's got to be more difficult to manage for the employer.
I don't think they'd go for it unless there was some serious financial inducement from the government, in which case the money saved by the RAAF not losing experience would have to be more than that spent on the scheme.
Lots of ex-military people have gone to airlines, of course, but if the concept is to have some of those coming back to service flying on a part-time basis, that's got to be more difficult to manage for the employer.
I don't think they'd go for it unless there was some serious financial inducement from the government, in which case the money saved by the RAAF not losing experience would have to be more than that spent on the scheme.
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...Aw!! C'mon Gnad, you've been around these parts for 6 or 7 years or so, and 700 odd posts...what's going on here?...bit bored are we?..want to do a bit of stirring?
what a wind up...and they're all falling for it!
Give us a break mate!!
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by psycho joe
RAAF retention rates would be a lot better if pilot's were allowed to be pilots and continue flying instead of doing secondary duties and unessesary admin work.
Considering that a FLTLT on max flying pay now makes roughly 105K (without allowances) and airline wages in this country are heading south, maybe retention will not be such a problem in the future.
ruprecht.
I always would have preferred to be a SNCO pilot!
ruprecht.
I always would have preferred to be a SNCO pilot!
Nunc est bibendum
lol. Yes amos, it was a bit of a wind up....but there is a method to the madness as well. In reality, how many pilots in the RAAF actually hold down a true officers role in terms of man management and organisational responsibility. Couldn't half an average SQN be made up of SNCOs with officers holding down the other jobs that actually do require that organisational responsibility? As Ruprecht points out, there are many ADF pilots who would LOVE to be SNCOs if it meant similar pay and that they could remain flying. This leaves those who want the staff jobs to go for them.
Besides, it if was good enough for Middleton VC during the biggest air conflict the world has ever seen, why not now for the modern day RAAF?
I will admit that I'm just an interested observer to all of this and have no real experience of front line ADF ops so I'm happy to hear the counter points but I do know a thing or three about 'management' and I do have a few friends who are officers- and sometimes gentlemen but generally not! 
Besides, it if was good enough for Middleton VC during the biggest air conflict the world has ever seen, why not now for the modern day RAAF?
I will admit that I'm just an interested observer to all of this and have no real experience of front line ADF ops so I'm happy to hear the counter points but I do know a thing or three about 'management' and I do have a few friends who are officers- and sometimes gentlemen but generally not!
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Amos2,
No airline payin less then 105K for a skipper (yet) but throw in the RAAF benefits like free dental and medical to only mention a few, and i dont think theres much in it.
Aussie
No airline payin less then 105K for a skipper (yet) but throw in the RAAF benefits like free dental and medical to only mention a few, and i dont think theres much in it.
Aussie
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Amos2,
Actually, The 105K is absolute barebones pay, not at all inclusive of accommodation allowance, any slip port/daily allowances, free medical/dental or removals. There is NEVER ANY threat of paying for one's own conversion training (although I admit a ROSO (Return of Service Obligation) on certain conversions). The cost of fuel barely rates a mention (although the greenie (NOT the accountant) in me says it probably should). And then there's extra overseas operational deployment pay (which, in addition to regular salary during the deployment, is tax free).
The usefulness that a prospective <insert legacy carrier> Second Officer feels before leaving his/her Defence job is tenfold more than he/she is likely to feel for years (possibly decades) in their airline job.
So - no - 105k may not seem like a Captain's salary but then again, leaving Defence and taking something between a 10 and 20 year demotion isn't very attractive either. Believe me.
VI
Actually, The 105K is absolute barebones pay, not at all inclusive of accommodation allowance, any slip port/daily allowances, free medical/dental or removals. There is NEVER ANY threat of paying for one's own conversion training (although I admit a ROSO (Return of Service Obligation) on certain conversions). The cost of fuel barely rates a mention (although the greenie (NOT the accountant) in me says it probably should). And then there's extra overseas operational deployment pay (which, in addition to regular salary during the deployment, is tax free).
The usefulness that a prospective <insert legacy carrier> Second Officer feels before leaving his/her Defence job is tenfold more than he/she is likely to feel for years (possibly decades) in their airline job.
So - no - 105k may not seem like a Captain's salary but then again, leaving Defence and taking something between a 10 and 20 year demotion isn't very attractive either. Believe me.
VI
Last edited by Victor India; 8th Jun 2006 at 12:11.
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Couldn't half an average SQN be made up of SNCOs with officers
The rank system reigns supreme. Even if you are the Captain. Hence the Flying Safety mobs recommendation against an adverse cockpit gradient (say a FLTLT captain and a GPCAPT or WGCDR co-pilot).As for free dental and medical.. Do you think RAAF aircrew are honest to the medical Nazi's??!? Hence the old saying "Never hesitate , self medicate".
There is NEVER ANY threat of paying for one's own conversion training