QF Cabin Crew Discussions
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reality
Missleadfoot,
thanks for being brave enough to say your piece on this thread, considering some of the people that post here seem to not be living in the real world.
You, like Jetstar crew, our LHR base, BKK base, AKL base, even S/h, all applied fror a job to go flying, not to undermine QF longhaul conditions, and don't deserve the anger that is directed to them by some amidst our ranks.
The reality is, Qantas will use whoever they have available on a route that is cheapest, and we at LH QF will lose those routes unless we realise that eventually we will have to compromise our conditions, sad as it may seem.
The union have been trying to say this but keep getting criticised on here by angry people who just want to focus their energy at the people who just work for a cheaper incarnation of QF because they want to fly.
If QCC2 and/or his/her cronies have any valid answers to our predicament, they should be formally presenting them to the union, not directing childish name calling at our colleagues within the QF group, especially the union delegates.
thanks for being brave enough to say your piece on this thread, considering some of the people that post here seem to not be living in the real world.
You, like Jetstar crew, our LHR base, BKK base, AKL base, even S/h, all applied fror a job to go flying, not to undermine QF longhaul conditions, and don't deserve the anger that is directed to them by some amidst our ranks.
The reality is, Qantas will use whoever they have available on a route that is cheapest, and we at LH QF will lose those routes unless we realise that eventually we will have to compromise our conditions, sad as it may seem.
The union have been trying to say this but keep getting criticised on here by angry people who just want to focus their energy at the people who just work for a cheaper incarnation of QF because they want to fly.
If QCC2 and/or his/her cronies have any valid answers to our predicament, they should be formally presenting them to the union, not directing childish name calling at our colleagues within the QF group, especially the union delegates.
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If Only......
Longhaul is in the current position because Broome Warner and Brem buckled when we had the upper hand.
Then Australian Airlines entered into the fray and frightened the living daylights out of shorthaul.
In short a lack of unity and strength brought us to where we are.
It has long been my contention that the association should employ professionals to negotiate and plan IR strategies.
The company employs individuals like Oldmeadow who is as sharp as they come.
He is lacking in integrity,morals and principles,but sharp nonetheless.
He has done everybody over...Pilots Lames Cabin Crew.
He has managed to do this because each group lacked cohesion.
Qantas will never be the same.Wages and conditions will disintegrate.It is a company devolving into third rate transport.
"Self loading Freight" has never been a more appropriate term.
How this happened in an environment where we have almost full employment is beyond comprehension.
But we have a minority government(46% of the electorate)who suggests that they have a mandate for IR reform.
One of the few strategies Howard has any (false)memory of.He doesnt seem to be able to recall much of anything else.
Before the pendulum in the broader community finds some semblance of balance many will experience financial pain.
It is happening already.
Unfortunately the lapdog media in this country is preferentially blind.
Its once again time for a change.
The community can be saved from this vertically and intellectually challenged swine....QF cannot.
History will view both Howard and Dixon poorly.
I am sorry for those who are and will suffer financial pain and personal upheaval
Then Australian Airlines entered into the fray and frightened the living daylights out of shorthaul.
In short a lack of unity and strength brought us to where we are.
It has long been my contention that the association should employ professionals to negotiate and plan IR strategies.
The company employs individuals like Oldmeadow who is as sharp as they come.
He is lacking in integrity,morals and principles,but sharp nonetheless.
He has done everybody over...Pilots Lames Cabin Crew.
He has managed to do this because each group lacked cohesion.
Qantas will never be the same.Wages and conditions will disintegrate.It is a company devolving into third rate transport.
"Self loading Freight" has never been a more appropriate term.
How this happened in an environment where we have almost full employment is beyond comprehension.
But we have a minority government(46% of the electorate)who suggests that they have a mandate for IR reform.
One of the few strategies Howard has any (false)memory of.He doesnt seem to be able to recall much of anything else.
Before the pendulum in the broader community finds some semblance of balance many will experience financial pain.
It is happening already.
Unfortunately the lapdog media in this country is preferentially blind.
Its once again time for a change.
The community can be saved from this vertically and intellectually challenged swine....QF cannot.
History will view both Howard and Dixon poorly.
I am sorry for those who are and will suffer financial pain and personal upheaval
Last edited by Simon Templar; 28th May 2006 at 14:20.
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The only real way to put a stop to the corporate greed which pervades the company is to have one union for all QF employees.
Darth can get around one group of workers but he could not sidestep all of us at the same time.
There is however one large fly in the ointment so to speak.Each individual section whether it is CC or TC or any group cannot agree within themselves let alone with other unions.It would be Darths greatest nightmare to face one united workforce but as it stands we are as fragmented as you could possibly get.
So as it stands and with this being the "me generation" Darth is having it all his way.
It is sad that the "Spirit of Australia" has become a vague concept so abstract and deceptive that it is thinner than the coat of paint that advertises this idea on our aircraft
Darth can get around one group of workers but he could not sidestep all of us at the same time.
There is however one large fly in the ointment so to speak.Each individual section whether it is CC or TC or any group cannot agree within themselves let alone with other unions.It would be Darths greatest nightmare to face one united workforce but as it stands we are as fragmented as you could possibly get.
So as it stands and with this being the "me generation" Darth is having it all his way.
It is sad that the "Spirit of Australia" has become a vague concept so abstract and deceptive that it is thinner than the coat of paint that advertises this idea on our aircraft
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its getting better
twiggs says"The reality is, Qantas will use whoever they have available on a route that is cheapest, and we at LH QF will lose those routes unless we realise that eventually we will have to compromise our conditions, sad as it may seem.
The union have been trying to say this but keep getting criticised on here by angry people who just want to focus their energy at the people who just work for a cheaper incarnation of QF because they want to fly".
simon says "In short a lack of unity and strength brought us to where we are.
It has long been my contention that the association employ professionals to negotiate and plan IR strategies".
simon is spot on. twiggs you need a lesson in how, when and why the faaa (SH & LH) excecs contributed so much to the current situation.
The union have been trying to say this but keep getting criticised on here by angry people who just want to focus their energy at the people who just work for a cheaper incarnation of QF because they want to fly".
simon says "In short a lack of unity and strength brought us to where we are.
It has long been my contention that the association employ professionals to negotiate and plan IR strategies".
simon is spot on. twiggs you need a lesson in how, when and why the faaa (SH & LH) excecs contributed so much to the current situation.
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Originally Posted by qcc2
simon is spot on. twiggs you need a lesson in how, when and why the faaa (SH & LH) excecs contributed so much to the current situation.
The present administration headed by MM, AS, and SR, who you so elequently refer to as "three stooges" did their best to avert that happening and after all seemed lost, did very well to recover some lost ground. They do not deserve the ridiculing you seem to want to give them.
And as for calling Australian LH crew who went to the London base, "scabs", I suggest you check the meaning of scabs because you don't know what you are talking about.
QCC2, the only reason I respond is that all of your posts are so full of inaccuracies and slagging, that I feel you need to be told to lift your game and focus on the ball and not the man.
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Simon says:
And in the next breath:
The woes of Qantas existed a long time before the new IR reforms came in.
So who would be your choice to maintain the economic well being of Australia at its present performance levels.
In short a lack of unity and strength brought us to where we are.
It has long been my contention that the association employ professionals to negotiate and plan IR strategies.
It has long been my contention that the association employ professionals to negotiate and plan IR strategies.
But we have a minority government(46% of the electorate)who suggests that they have a mandate for IR reform.
One of the few strategies Howard has any (false)memory of.He doesnt seem to be able to recall much of anything else.
One of the few strategies Howard has any (false)memory of.He doesnt seem to be able to recall much of anything else.
The community can be saved from this vertically and intellectually challenged swine....QF cannot.
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Keating
Australia does not operate in a vacuum.
There are a number of reasons we are enjoying economic prosperity.Very few of them are attributable to the current twits in Canberra.
The resources boom.
The growth of the Chinese and Indian economies
The bouyant international stock market
The floating of the Australian dollar in 1984
The reduction in tariffs in the late 80s.
Keating may have made some mistakes but they are far outweighed by his triumphs.
The IR reforms will reduce wages and increase work rates.
Many will spend less time at home with their families.
Disposable income will be reduced.
Discretionary spending will decrease.
Consumer demand will be postponed.
All of which will ultimately lead to increases in unemployment.
Factor in a further rate rise by the reserve bank and you have financial pain.
So who would you nominate to maintain economic growth?.
That smirking buffoon we have now?.
When you start to suffer hotdog you will perhaps see the light.
Australia is 95% self sufficient in fossil fuels.Ethanol is an excellent supplement.
Look at Brazil..........
Why is the price at the bowser so high? TAX
Howard had no mandate for the GST.
He had no mandate for industrial reform.
Tax reform is required now..but it requires intellect.
There is none in Canberra
Figure it out for yourself
There are a number of reasons we are enjoying economic prosperity.Very few of them are attributable to the current twits in Canberra.
The resources boom.
The growth of the Chinese and Indian economies
The bouyant international stock market
The floating of the Australian dollar in 1984
The reduction in tariffs in the late 80s.
Keating may have made some mistakes but they are far outweighed by his triumphs.
The IR reforms will reduce wages and increase work rates.
Many will spend less time at home with their families.
Disposable income will be reduced.
Discretionary spending will decrease.
Consumer demand will be postponed.
All of which will ultimately lead to increases in unemployment.
Factor in a further rate rise by the reserve bank and you have financial pain.
So who would you nominate to maintain economic growth?.
That smirking buffoon we have now?.
When you start to suffer hotdog you will perhaps see the light.
Australia is 95% self sufficient in fossil fuels.Ethanol is an excellent supplement.
Look at Brazil..........
Why is the price at the bowser so high? TAX
Howard had no mandate for the GST.
He had no mandate for industrial reform.
Tax reform is required now..but it requires intellect.
There is none in Canberra
Figure it out for yourself
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Originally Posted by twiggs
The only mob that pay their crew any where near to what we get that I can think of is EK, and that is probably what it costs to motivate people to move to DBX.
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"Excuse me for interferring but as an Australian based in Dubai for Emirates im sure i can say our package is not matching QF .. especially when converted, the dirham isnt worth the paper its printed on these days. If I could get a flying job back in Australia i'd be there in a heartbeat."
Even when you consider you are being paid tax free with accomodation incentives and so on............
If you look at the amount of tax paid with overtime it is staggering however i can imagine being homesick after living in the sandbox for a period of time
Even when you consider you are being paid tax free with accomodation incentives and so on............
If you look at the amount of tax paid with overtime it is staggering however i can imagine being homesick after living in the sandbox for a period of time
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Originally Posted by lowerlobe
Even when you consider you are being paid tax free with accomodation incentives and so on............
If you look at the amount of tax paid with overtime it is staggering however i can imagine being homesick after living in the sandbox for a period of time
If you look at the amount of tax paid with overtime it is staggering however i can imagine being homesick after living in the sandbox for a period of time
Thanks goofy76 for your input, you have proved my point perfectly, even Emirates can't match QF pay and CONDITIONS.
We all have to realise we are on an excellent wicket and we could easily live with a few compromises on pay and conditions in order to keep our jobs and retain more destinations.
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Twiggs ,
If you want to give in and cut our conditions then speak for yourself.
Goofy76 was talking about his/her conditions in the sandbox and I sympathized with them because I can imagine missing home and living offshore.
At no point did I suggest that my post was about airline operating costs nor did goofy76.My post was about the difference being taxed or not.
If you are living in Australia and being paid for example $50,000 gross and after tax you would end up with about $28000 depending on your own tax circumstances.
If you are living in a tax free zone and if you are only paid $30,000 a year not to forget the subsidized or free housing you are better off financially and that was my point not the cost base of Qantas.
However there is no amount of money that can make up for being homesick and perhaps this was what goofy76 was alluding to.
Your post however demonstrates the problem we face not only as Cabin crew or a Qantas employee in general but any Australian for that fact. We are so apathetic about life we just give in and moan about the situation.
How about a campaign to show everyone the obscene amount some people are paid and what they intend to do with employees conditions. If there was no one willing to work for the amount that J* or VB paid then they would have to lift the pay offer to attract workers but no there is an un-ending line of people that apply then have to leave because they cannot make ends meet.
How many times do we hear from various people like Darth or Ms Jackson that they have to pay the current packages or they would not attract the calibre of people they want for the board.Well, I think it is time they pay a decent wage for other employees as well.
It is amazing how many people are surprised that we have to work for 12 hours before we get overtime, that we are not paid any extra for working Christmas day or any other universally recognized Public Holiday or that we are not entitled to a break before 6 hours.
It is even more amazing that there are always people that are willing to give in all the time and Darth is milking them for everything he can.
The other day I posted a comment regarding the numbers and cost of our board and managers but Twiggs never replied
Twiggs ….If you really are cabin crew and not some pretender from the office or wherever here are a few questions
(1) Exactly what part of our conditions do you think we don’t need or that you are prepared to give away?
(2) Do you think that Darth will stop when you generously give away something
(3) What will you do next time when he tells you that there are Namibians that are willing to do our job for 10% of our pay?????
It is interesting that under our EBA no Australian based crew will lose their jobs because of overseas bases. Now we are under a situation that Australian positions are being reduced but not overseas based crew….What will happen when the price of fuel goes up again or there is a world shortage of toilet paper and he has no else to retrench to cut costs.
Twiggs will you work for free then????
If you want to give in and cut our conditions then speak for yourself.
Goofy76 was talking about his/her conditions in the sandbox and I sympathized with them because I can imagine missing home and living offshore.
At no point did I suggest that my post was about airline operating costs nor did goofy76.My post was about the difference being taxed or not.
If you are living in Australia and being paid for example $50,000 gross and after tax you would end up with about $28000 depending on your own tax circumstances.
If you are living in a tax free zone and if you are only paid $30,000 a year not to forget the subsidized or free housing you are better off financially and that was my point not the cost base of Qantas.
However there is no amount of money that can make up for being homesick and perhaps this was what goofy76 was alluding to.
Your post however demonstrates the problem we face not only as Cabin crew or a Qantas employee in general but any Australian for that fact. We are so apathetic about life we just give in and moan about the situation.
How about a campaign to show everyone the obscene amount some people are paid and what they intend to do with employees conditions. If there was no one willing to work for the amount that J* or VB paid then they would have to lift the pay offer to attract workers but no there is an un-ending line of people that apply then have to leave because they cannot make ends meet.
How many times do we hear from various people like Darth or Ms Jackson that they have to pay the current packages or they would not attract the calibre of people they want for the board.Well, I think it is time they pay a decent wage for other employees as well.
It is amazing how many people are surprised that we have to work for 12 hours before we get overtime, that we are not paid any extra for working Christmas day or any other universally recognized Public Holiday or that we are not entitled to a break before 6 hours.
It is even more amazing that there are always people that are willing to give in all the time and Darth is milking them for everything he can.
The other day I posted a comment regarding the numbers and cost of our board and managers but Twiggs never replied
Twiggs ….If you really are cabin crew and not some pretender from the office or wherever here are a few questions
(1) Exactly what part of our conditions do you think we don’t need or that you are prepared to give away?
(2) Do you think that Darth will stop when you generously give away something
(3) What will you do next time when he tells you that there are Namibians that are willing to do our job for 10% of our pay?????
It is interesting that under our EBA no Australian based crew will lose their jobs because of overseas bases. Now we are under a situation that Australian positions are being reduced but not overseas based crew….What will happen when the price of fuel goes up again or there is a world shortage of toilet paper and he has no else to retrench to cut costs.
Twiggs will you work for free then????
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there are openings in QF goofy76
i think its nz 23000.- plus allowances and you have to reside in auckland. i think that would compare to your current wages in EK? not
not
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Originally Posted by lowerlobe
Twiggs ,
If you want to give in and cut our conditions then speak for yourself.
Goofy76 was talking about his/her conditions in the sandbox and I sympathized with them because I can imagine missing home and living offshore.
At no point did I suggest that my post was about airline operating costs nor did goofy76.My post was about the difference being taxed or not.
The other day I posted a comment regarding the numbers and cost of our board and managers but Twiggs never replied
Twiggs ….If you really are cabin crew and not some pretender from the office or wherever here are a few questions
(1) Exactly what part of our conditions do you think we don’t need or that you are prepared to give away?
(2) Do you think that Darth will stop when you generously give away something
(3) What will you do next time when he tells you that there are Namibians that are willing to do our job for 10% of our pay?????
It is interesting that under our EBA no Australian based crew will lose their jobs because of overseas bases. Now we are under a situation that Australian positions are being reduced but not overseas based crew….What will happen when the price of fuel goes up again or there is a world shortage of toilet paper and he has no else to retrench to cut costs.
Twiggs will you work for free then????
If you want to give in and cut our conditions then speak for yourself.
Goofy76 was talking about his/her conditions in the sandbox and I sympathized with them because I can imagine missing home and living offshore.
At no point did I suggest that my post was about airline operating costs nor did goofy76.My post was about the difference being taxed or not.
The other day I posted a comment regarding the numbers and cost of our board and managers but Twiggs never replied
Twiggs ….If you really are cabin crew and not some pretender from the office or wherever here are a few questions
(1) Exactly what part of our conditions do you think we don’t need or that you are prepared to give away?
(2) Do you think that Darth will stop when you generously give away something
(3) What will you do next time when he tells you that there are Namibians that are willing to do our job for 10% of our pay?????
It is interesting that under our EBA no Australian based crew will lose their jobs because of overseas bases. Now we are under a situation that Australian positions are being reduced but not overseas based crew….What will happen when the price of fuel goes up again or there is a world shortage of toilet paper and he has no else to retrench to cut costs.
Twiggs will you work for free then????
Goofy was verifying that we earn more than anyone else, and I assumed you responded to him/her in light of the discussion I was having with QCC2 that QF LH crew were on a par with many of our competitors with regards to cost to the company.
I have no comment about what the managers get paid, although the amounts are obscene, it is not an argument that will keep our wages high.
For your information, whether you believe it or not, I am a regular L/H f/a flying more than 10 years less than 15, want to keep my job for as long as possible, have never worked in the office, and have as much contempt for the penpushers in there as the next person.
I am a realist though, maybe because I have no academic or professional qualifications and worked in a non flying job before joining QF and know what it is like in the real world.
I also know people who fly for other carriers from the USA, Asia and the Middle East.
1.I'm not suggesting we give away any condition, I'm suggesting we negotiate to modify conditions that cause management to utilise others to do our jobs. eg LAX-JFK-LAX
2. I am not suggesting that we give away anything, but of course he will continue to try to cut costs, but if we become less of a burden, the desire will hopefully become less.
3. see the above.
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Its funny listening to QF crew complain about the BOM flight. Try to imagine having EVERY flight comprised of these passengers and any typical LHR flight having minimum 100 AVML's and no amount of money can make it worthwhile.
And if unions (or even OH&S) were legal here then we might even get paid overtime but untill such times as the laws are changed we wont
And if unions (or even OH&S) were legal here then we might even get paid overtime but untill such times as the laws are changed we wont
Last edited by goofy76; 29th May 2006 at 04:56.