QF Cabin Crew Discussions
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Flyagainoneday,
You would not be one of the mob applying for jobs that perpetuate this mess would you?
Simon Templar,
Yes I want to know because they are leading our union and supposed to be representing us....No wonder Darth is getting away with all this when you read some of these posts and as far as your lame excuse regarding snow storms ....
You would not be one of the mob applying for jobs that perpetuate this mess would you?
Simon Templar,
Yes I want to know because they are leading our union and supposed to be representing us....No wonder Darth is getting away with all this when you read some of these posts and as far as your lame excuse regarding snow storms ....
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Lurker @L5,
I forgot to mention, one minute you refer to the fAAA suggesting 'ridiculous strike action', the next you are asking if they have the balls to show some resistance.
With that sort of logic you aught to be in management.
I forgot to mention, one minute you refer to the fAAA suggesting 'ridiculous strike action', the next you are asking if they have the balls to show some resistance.
With that sort of logic you aught to be in management.
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Twiggs ...You forgot to mention the faaa and supporters mutual admiration society of whom the president is .........................
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I have just read the thread regarding Jetstar and the passenger attempting to open the door.
If you guys had restrained a passenger who had attempted to open a door, would you withhold that information from the captain?
If you guys had restrained a passenger who had attempted to open a door, would you withhold that information from the captain?
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Historically we have had to ask the Captain for permission to use the handcuffs which has relevance given their stowage position.
Other restraint devices are NOW available to cabin crew without contacting the flight deck.
In many cases their the imperative to use them is so urgent that contact or permission isn't sought untill after the fact.
The issue of flight deck lockdown bears consideration
I can't imagine a situation at mainline where a Captain wouldn't be made fully aware of this type of scenario given that ultimately it is his/her aircraft.
Perhaps we are only getting half the story re the jetstar incident.
One would hope so.......
Other restraint devices are NOW available to cabin crew without contacting the flight deck.
In many cases their the imperative to use them is so urgent that contact or permission isn't sought untill after the fact.
The issue of flight deck lockdown bears consideration
I can't imagine a situation at mainline where a Captain wouldn't be made fully aware of this type of scenario given that ultimately it is his/her aircraft.
Perhaps we are only getting half the story re the jetstar incident.
One would hope so.......
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...........in the old days!!!
To respond to your post Ken.
How we used to do it before the "do gooders" took over this airline:--After pax had attempted to open door.
STEP #1:Grab pax ( usually pissed male) by the cruets and drag to the crossover at doors 5.
STEP#2: Ask all pax to leave the area. Tell him he has been a very naughty boy.
STEP#3.Position pax in the "H" seat in the last row.Strap him in seat with seat belt and upper body harness.Ensure its a dark cabin.
STEP#4.Throw blanket over pax.
STEP#4.Obtain ABC-World time table and wack him a "few" times until no noise comes from under blanket.
STEP#5. Radio ahead on ACARS and advise that a pax on board has admitted to being a drug mule and has 4 condoms of drugs in his large intestine..
It worked a treat.!!!!!
You may be thinking ....what about all the rest of the pax??????
Guess what,,......they generally applauded, because they thought that this lunatic could of brought the plane down or worse-sucked half the pax off their seats to the ground 38000' below ( which we all knew would never happen !!!!! ).
But hey. Back in the old days our motto was .
WE GO FURTHER!!!!!!
www
How we used to do it before the "do gooders" took over this airline:--After pax had attempted to open door.
STEP #1:Grab pax ( usually pissed male) by the cruets and drag to the crossover at doors 5.
STEP#2: Ask all pax to leave the area. Tell him he has been a very naughty boy.
STEP#3.Position pax in the "H" seat in the last row.Strap him in seat with seat belt and upper body harness.Ensure its a dark cabin.
STEP#4.Throw blanket over pax.
STEP#4.Obtain ABC-World time table and wack him a "few" times until no noise comes from under blanket.
STEP#5. Radio ahead on ACARS and advise that a pax on board has admitted to being a drug mule and has 4 condoms of drugs in his large intestine..
It worked a treat.!!!!!
You may be thinking ....what about all the rest of the pax??????
Guess what,,......they generally applauded, because they thought that this lunatic could of brought the plane down or worse-sucked half the pax off their seats to the ground 38000' below ( which we all knew would never happen !!!!! ).
But hey. Back in the old days our motto was .
WE GO FURTHER!!!!!!
www
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Good one WWW.......Ahh yes the good old days......I remember many moons ago doing a trip with the late great George Kovacic. A rather large man lost the plot at 35000 feet and took several of us to finally restrain him. Just as we did George came racing down the aisle calling out "KEEP HOLDING HIM DOWN....I'LL GET HIS WALLET!!" The resultant laughter from us almost saw our man escape......almost.......I'll always remember this incident as it made light of a serious situation. Characters like George are sadly no longer around and that's a shame. A note for the "visitors" no one took his wallet!! CartEx.....Al Pacino in the movie Scarface found that a chainsaw gets very good results on pests!!
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Originally Posted by Shlonghaul
CartEx.....Al Pacino in the movie Scarface found that a chainsaw gets very good results on pests!!
In Scarface, the chainsaw was used by the drug dealer to kill Tony Montana's (Al's) accomplice (who was chained to the shower) to get Tony to give up the cash.
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Classic?
Scarface is a classic movie?? I only remember it for its obscene violence....and Michelle Pfeiffer!! 
Thanks for the update Lesley.... err I mean twiggs but you really need to get out more......or join imdb.com
Thanks for the update Lesley.... err I mean twiggs but you really need to get out more......or join imdb.com
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I have just had a long chat with one of those lovely young lads from the union that do such a great job for us all. He is so upset about all the chat that is going on here about them. As I said to him,we all wish it was still the good old days but its not. He asked me what is the word on the street. Ive told him on behalf of us all to carry on doing what they are doing. We all know deep down we are so overpaid for what skills we really have and just how lucky we all are to be working for such a great icon.
The young lad left a lot happier and told me to watch this space for much more to come. God bless him.
He is so upset about all the chat that is going on here about them. As I said to him,we all wish it was still the good old days but its not. He asked me what is the word on the street. Ive told him on behalf of us all to carry on doing what they are doing. We all know deep down we are so overpaid for what skills we really have and just how lucky we all are to be working for such a great icon.The young lad left a lot happier and told me to watch this space for much more to come. God bless him.
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A cut and paste from one of Sunfish's posts that applies to ALL operational staff at the rat -
------------------------
"OMG! I should have made the connection long ago!
You guys are the victims of a FUD campaign. It's a computer industry marketing term. It stands for "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" and it has been used by generations of computer marketing types to herd their customers in the direction they want them to go.
I was wrong to think you are simply getting the "We'll all be rooned" line from Mr. Dixon. It's more than that, it's a deliberate campaign to destabilise the pilots as a group to ensure that they are incapable of any collective action and decison making.
Fear - as in will I have a job? Get promoted? Will the Jetstar guys take my job?
Uncertainty - If we take action we don't know where it will lead. What if I decide not to pay for a rating? What if I complain?
Doubt - What if Qantas is telling the truth?
The whole process is designed to make you totally risk averse so that you will do anything the company says.
I have been wondering for some time about whether management would deliberately destabilise its workforce or was just inept. I guess the letter home demonstrates that its a deliberate FUD campaign. You guys seem to be constantly the target of rumours and what appear to be petty decision making (or non decision making). Same with the engineers. These rumours, stories and so on are deliberately planted.
At the same time an appeal is made to follow your union leadership, because it is "responsible" (translate - risk averse).
Translation: divide and rule and scare the crap out of you.
Please look up the term on the internet although it mostly relates to computers.
You may say "so what"? Well at least you can put a name to it. You also know the antidote to FUD - truth, although its sometimes hard to find."
------------------------
"OMG! I should have made the connection long ago!
You guys are the victims of a FUD campaign. It's a computer industry marketing term. It stands for "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" and it has been used by generations of computer marketing types to herd their customers in the direction they want them to go.
I was wrong to think you are simply getting the "We'll all be rooned" line from Mr. Dixon. It's more than that, it's a deliberate campaign to destabilise the pilots as a group to ensure that they are incapable of any collective action and decison making.
Fear - as in will I have a job? Get promoted? Will the Jetstar guys take my job?
Uncertainty - If we take action we don't know where it will lead. What if I decide not to pay for a rating? What if I complain?
Doubt - What if Qantas is telling the truth?
The whole process is designed to make you totally risk averse so that you will do anything the company says.
I have been wondering for some time about whether management would deliberately destabilise its workforce or was just inept. I guess the letter home demonstrates that its a deliberate FUD campaign. You guys seem to be constantly the target of rumours and what appear to be petty decision making (or non decision making). Same with the engineers. These rumours, stories and so on are deliberately planted.
At the same time an appeal is made to follow your union leadership, because it is "responsible" (translate - risk averse).
Translation: divide and rule and scare the crap out of you.
Please look up the term on the internet although it mostly relates to computers.
You may say "so what"? Well at least you can put a name to it. You also know the antidote to FUD - truth, although its sometimes hard to find."
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Which sounds a little like this little HR gem from Aer Lingus........
The following is circa 2004 and was reported in the UK's Financial Times-
------------------------
Leaked HR document gives new Aer Lingus boss much to ponder
A controversy over a leaked Aer Lingus HR strategy document has brought into sharp focus the often difficult and sometimes bitter industrial relations environment that has prevailed in the state-owned airline over the past decade.
References in the document, which was drawn up within the Aer Lingus HR department in 2004, are made to what are termed environmental 'push factors' , like the 'tap on shoulder' . There is also a suggestion that a change of uniform for flight attendants could act as a pressure point in the context of the company’s current business plan.
The document was drawn up as part of the radical business plan first put forward by former chief executive, Willie Walsh, in 2004. That business plan is still seen as crucial in securing reduced staff numbers as well as change and productivity improvements as the airline prepares to face up to partial privatisation.
Aer Lingus executive chairman, John Sharman, said the company appreciated that the language used was seen 'as impersonal and clinical' . He expressed 'regret for any offence taken or implied' , but insisted that the push factors were never acted on, a view rejected by the trade unions.
Over the past decade, independent industrial relations observers have seen fit to comment on the industrial relations and HR environment in the company. Even the Taoiseach (Prime Minister), Bertie Ahern, told the Dail (Irish Parliament) last year that the level of trust between management and unions in the airline was 'non existent' . Critical comments have also been made by state dispute resolution agencies such as the Labour Relations Commission, the Labour Court and the National Implementation Body.
The controversial HR document was leaked to Ireland’s highest circulation daily, the Irish Independent, which carried it as an exclusive front page lead story in July 2005. The row over the document was then given extensive coverage by other media, with the executive chairman, John Sharman, answering questions about it from elected political representatives at a parliamentary committee hearing.
The controversy would not have been as great without the benefit of an 'informed source' , who provided the Irish Independent with crucial elaboration on some of the 'environmental push factors' that caused the furore. According to the Independent, suggestions were made in the document that cabin crew - including 'older air hostesses' - would have to abandon their current uniform for 'jumpsuits and t-shirts' .
The same source revealed that there were suggestions that the airline might bring in a tedious training programme for some pilots -like 'Guantanemo bay' the source was quoted as saying.
The Independent also reported that in relation to a push factor headed 'adverse changes in work/shift patterns' , management could hint that shift patterns could be altered to make life at the company uncomfortable. This particular caused considerable annoyance, in view of the fact that some sections, like cabin crew and ground staff, are mostly female and have strong demands for flexible options.
The company denied that it acted on the suggestions but did not deny that the HR department had devised the strategy document, not did it refute any of the elaboration provided by the Independent’s informed source. In fact, the company itself decided to publish the document due to media and political pressure.
Perhaps the most unusual aspect of the controversy was the fact the language used in the document was committed to paper, as many of the suggested tactical approaches may not be so unusual in industry. In fact, most of the document is innocuous. If the push factors are excluded, then little by way of controversy would have emerged.
The leak has put the focus squarely on the airline’s HR department and other top managers. The new chief executive, Dermott Mannion, knows that HR and industrial relations issues are critical to the company’s success. Meanwhile, talks aimed at securing work practice changes under the business plan in return for a productivity deal have taken over 18 months to date, with a final agreement expected this autumn.
This information is made available through the European Industrial Relations Observatory (EIRO), as a service to users of the EIROnline database. EIRO is a project of the European Foundation for the Improvement of Living and Working Conditions. However, this information has been neither edited nor approved by the Foundation, which means that it is not responsible for its content and accuracy. This is the responsibility of the EIRO national centre that originated/provided the information. For details see the "About this record" information in this record.
------------------
http://www.eiro.eurofound.ie/2005/09...e0509201n.html
------------------------
Leaked HR document gives new Aer Lingus boss much to ponder
A controversy over a leaked Aer Lingus HR strategy document has brought into sharp focus the often difficult and sometimes bitter industrial relations environment that has prevailed in the state-owned airline over the past decade.
References in the document, which was drawn up within the Aer Lingus HR department in 2004, are made to what are termed environmental 'push factors' , like the 'tap on shoulder' . There is also a suggestion that a change of uniform for flight attendants could act as a pressure point in the context of the company’s current business plan.
The document was drawn up as part of the radical business plan first put forward by former chief executive, Willie Walsh, in 2004. That business plan is still seen as crucial in securing reduced staff numbers as well as change and productivity improvements as the airline prepares to face up to partial privatisation.
Aer Lingus executive chairman, John Sharman, said the company appreciated that the language used was seen 'as impersonal and clinical' . He expressed 'regret for any offence taken or implied' , but insisted that the push factors were never acted on, a view rejected by the trade unions.
Over the past decade, independent industrial relations observers have seen fit to comment on the industrial relations and HR environment in the company. Even the Taoiseach (Prime Minister), Bertie Ahern, told the Dail (Irish Parliament) last year that the level of trust between management and unions in the airline was 'non existent' . Critical comments have also been made by state dispute resolution agencies such as the Labour Relations Commission, the Labour Court and the National Implementation Body.
The controversial HR document was leaked to Ireland’s highest circulation daily, the Irish Independent, which carried it as an exclusive front page lead story in July 2005. The row over the document was then given extensive coverage by other media, with the executive chairman, John Sharman, answering questions about it from elected political representatives at a parliamentary committee hearing.
The controversy would not have been as great without the benefit of an 'informed source' , who provided the Irish Independent with crucial elaboration on some of the 'environmental push factors' that caused the furore. According to the Independent, suggestions were made in the document that cabin crew - including 'older air hostesses' - would have to abandon their current uniform for 'jumpsuits and t-shirts' .
The same source revealed that there were suggestions that the airline might bring in a tedious training programme for some pilots -like 'Guantanemo bay' the source was quoted as saying.
The Independent also reported that in relation to a push factor headed 'adverse changes in work/shift patterns' , management could hint that shift patterns could be altered to make life at the company uncomfortable. This particular caused considerable annoyance, in view of the fact that some sections, like cabin crew and ground staff, are mostly female and have strong demands for flexible options.
The company denied that it acted on the suggestions but did not deny that the HR department had devised the strategy document, not did it refute any of the elaboration provided by the Independent’s informed source. In fact, the company itself decided to publish the document due to media and political pressure.
Perhaps the most unusual aspect of the controversy was the fact the language used in the document was committed to paper, as many of the suggested tactical approaches may not be so unusual in industry. In fact, most of the document is innocuous. If the push factors are excluded, then little by way of controversy would have emerged.
The leak has put the focus squarely on the airline’s HR department and other top managers. The new chief executive, Dermott Mannion, knows that HR and industrial relations issues are critical to the company’s success. Meanwhile, talks aimed at securing work practice changes under the business plan in return for a productivity deal have taken over 18 months to date, with a final agreement expected this autumn.
This information is made available through the European Industrial Relations Observatory (EIRO), as a service to users of the EIROnline database. EIRO is a project of the European Foundation for the Improvement of Living and Working Conditions. However, this information has been neither edited nor approved by the Foundation, which means that it is not responsible for its content and accuracy. This is the responsibility of the EIRO national centre that originated/provided the information. For details see the "About this record" information in this record.
------------------
http://www.eiro.eurofound.ie/2005/09...e0509201n.html