Qantas Overseas Pilots jobs move Attacked
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Its true or at the very least a concept that is being entertained in a very serious manner.
If they retrain the tech crew which fleet has room to accept these displaced guys? 767 perhaps???
If they retrain the tech crew which fleet has room to accept these displaced guys? 767 perhaps???
Depends on their seniority and where they bid to go. Senior crew would presumably go the -400, midrange crew to the Airbus and junior crew inevitably to the 767. I'd be very surprised - for now - if the Classics go due to capacity constraints ie. they haven't got enough aeroplanes as it is.
I'd like to know what Mulder's rumour is but his post is so cryptic it's really of no value.
I'd like to know what Mulder's rumour is but his post is so cryptic it's really of no value.
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Look deeper and you will find the answers.
It is naive in the extreme to believe that there will be a massive retraining program in the event of redundancies. If the downturn is on a "senior type", I believe no one on a "junior type" will allow themselves to be demoted but will make arrangements to keep their current position.
The new laws state that people employed by companies with more than 100 staff keep right to claim unfair dismissal, but workers in large companies are not safe either. Employees will not be regarded as unfairly dismissed if employers state their sacking was for "operational reasons."
"Operational reasons" is quite a broad term an IMHO would include massive retraining costs at a time of financial difficulty for a business.
It is naive in the extreme to believe that there will be a massive retraining program in the event of redundancies. If the downturn is on a "senior type", I believe no one on a "junior type" will allow themselves to be demoted but will make arrangements to keep their current position.
The new laws state that people employed by companies with more than 100 staff keep right to claim unfair dismissal, but workers in large companies are not safe either. Employees will not be regarded as unfairly dismissed if employers state their sacking was for "operational reasons."
"Operational reasons" is quite a broad term an IMHO would include massive retraining costs at a time of financial difficulty for a business.
Read the Certified Agreement . . .
There won't be redundancies on the Airbus fleet. Sure, a surplus may be declared, but in that instance guys will either move up onto the -400 or A380 if they have the seniority, otherwise they will be accommodated on the 737 or 767.
The only place redundancies could/may occur would be to push guys/girls out the bottom of the seniority list. Obviously that is confined to S/Os . . .
More than likely though they would be offered leave of absence instead of outright redundancy.
The only place redundancies could/may occur would be to push guys/girls out the bottom of the seniority list. Obviously that is confined to S/Os . . .
More than likely though they would be offered leave of absence instead of outright redundancy.
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Don't know all the details, but could any potential excess SO's be offered a transfer to Jetstar eg: under the new ir laws. I know all this is rumour, but this is just a thought.
Rammel,
Sounds feasible, but I can see a couple of obstacles. . .
Firstly, not all S/Os (cadets, for example) would meet the experience criteria for Jetstar. Admittedly though, Impulse had a handful of cadets, some of whom are still flying for Jetstar. Obviously the experience requirements can be waived at company's discretion.
Secondly, the whole buy-your-own-endorsement thingy, requiring the affected Pilots to buy their own endorsement and take a 50 percent paycut for the privilege.
Sounds feasible, but I can see a couple of obstacles. . .
Firstly, not all S/Os (cadets, for example) would meet the experience criteria for Jetstar. Admittedly though, Impulse had a handful of cadets, some of whom are still flying for Jetstar. Obviously the experience requirements can be waived at company's discretion.
Secondly, the whole buy-your-own-endorsement thingy, requiring the affected Pilots to buy their own endorsement and take a 50 percent paycut for the privilege.
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Brought forward to 22nd May.
Interesting situation with possible redundancies and the new "Age 65" FSO. Again, you will now see what the "senior members" will do for you.
Bolty,
You can now be dismissed for "operational reasons" not made redundant. Big difference!
Interesting situation with possible redundancies and the new "Age 65" FSO. Again, you will now see what the "senior members" will do for you.
Bolty,
You can now be dismissed for "operational reasons" not made redundant. Big difference!
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Simple answer is that VR or CR must be offered in order of seniority or assigned from the bottom. That is not type specific, that is the whole pilot list.
So to offer VR on the classic, QF would have to offer it to senior -400 captains (who are not in surplus) first, then train their replacements. OR assign it to the most junior S/O's (who are also not in surplus) and then fund a massive retraining effort for all displaced aircrew.
You can see why it would be the option of last choice.
So to offer VR on the classic, QF would have to offer it to senior -400 captains (who are not in surplus) first, then train their replacements. OR assign it to the most junior S/O's (who are also not in surplus) and then fund a massive retraining effort for all displaced aircrew.
You can see why it would be the option of last choice.
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Mulder...You are correct about being dismissed for ops reasons but I think (hope) QF will do the right thing and pay redundancies
Borg I think you may be very aware of what is stated in your EBA but did you not notice what has happened in engineering. They "retired/closed" a hangar and all the staff in it are now redundant. EBA or not these guys are gone
Many LAMEs have applied for the redundancy from other sections but are denied because of specific qualifications they have which cannot be replaced without training a replacement. Training = time and cost..VR denied.
What do the pilots have stop this sort of routing??
Solidarity? Looks like this is to be tested
Another point...is there anything stopping QF from employing new pilots on a different conditions via an AWA?
Borg I think you may be very aware of what is stated in your EBA but did you not notice what has happened in engineering. They "retired/closed" a hangar and all the staff in it are now redundant. EBA or not these guys are gone
Many LAMEs have applied for the redundancy from other sections but are denied because of specific qualifications they have which cannot be replaced without training a replacement. Training = time and cost..VR denied.
What do the pilots have stop this sort of routing??
Solidarity? Looks like this is to be tested
Another point...is there anything stopping QF from employing new pilots on a different conditions via an AWA?
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maybe -maybe not
Originally Posted by murgatroid
Anbody considering a DEC with J* should carefully consider the following clauses in the J* agreement.
"Such pilots will be issued a seniority number below all existing pilots on the seniority list in order of start date"
"Such pilots will be employed as a full time First Officer but may be transferred on a temporary basis for a fixed period as Captain during the implementation period of any new aircraft type. The term will normally not exceed two years with the exception of the A330 interim aircraft which may be three years. The company will consult the Jetstar Pilots Council about extensions beyond these periods."
So all the Airbus command time in the world isn't going to matter a single bit when you get booted back to F/O status. Think you'll get a 787 command, think again, there is 150-200 F/O's waiting ahead of you.
"Such pilots will be issued a seniority number below all existing pilots on the seniority list in order of start date"
"Such pilots will be employed as a full time First Officer but may be transferred on a temporary basis for a fixed period as Captain during the implementation period of any new aircraft type. The term will normally not exceed two years with the exception of the A330 interim aircraft which may be three years. The company will consult the Jetstar Pilots Council about extensions beyond these periods."
So all the Airbus command time in the world isn't going to matter a single bit when you get booted back to F/O status. Think you'll get a 787 command, think again, there is 150-200 F/O's waiting ahead of you.
Remember the EBA expires about the time the 787 is due for introduction so I am sure the guys that come as DECs will have input into the new one (and will probably be in management by then too if selection is experienced and qualification based). There is also a clause that says they can promote out of seniority to managment positions - easy to create jobs to keep the DECs if they so choose.Thats what I would do if I was running the company.
I met a QF 76 captain the other day who earnt 290k AUD last year compared to my xxxK AUD (tax free of course!) I am one of the 780?? Ozzies coming for a look and I reckon the package is do-able (and having 7 years of tax credits helps!).Pilots (especially QF!)are a costly commodity- just like oil and fuel -which they try (and we approve of) reduce costs by hedging. This is no different. To delude ourselves that managers consider us anything more - or less is overstating our importance to the organisation. Cheers
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"I met a QF 76 captain the other day who earnt 290k AUD last year"
What a load of horse sh*t, that is about 1550 credit hours which is not possible on the 767. Even a SCC would be at least 40K short of that.
What a load of horse sh*t, that is about 1550 credit hours which is not possible on the 767. Even a SCC would be at least 40K short of that.
The Classic: The aircraft that will not die!!!
Haven't QF been trying to kill the Classic for the last 15 years? This thing must have more lives than Jason from Friday the 13th. 460 pax to Narita last week would suggest that it's an awful lot of capacity to lose without a replacement.
ruprecht.
ruprecht.