C 17's - Coming to an Airport Near You?
Thread Starter
C 17's - Coming to an Airport Near You?
ABc is reporting the possible sale of four C17's to the RAAF.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...4/s1608249.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...4/s1608249.htm
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cripes! This has been known for a while now.
Bloody stupid decision too - entirely political with minimal (in fact I think zero) RAAF input until after the decision was made. I've no doubt whatsoever, based on previous experience, that they'll come 'sans' a whole lot of stuff you need when you buy new aeroplanes (eg troops to maintain them, appropriate quantity of spares, ongoing maintenance funding, somewhere under cover to park them for the 90% of time they'll spend on the ground getting fixed, etc, etc, etc).
I've already heard of 'brass' plans to completely ignore current experience on similar (in operating principle, though nowhere near as big) types in favour of completely re-inventing that funny round thing which attaches to an axle. But then they wouldn't be the 'brass' if they didn't do that.
Bloody stupid decision too - entirely political with minimal (in fact I think zero) RAAF input until after the decision was made. I've no doubt whatsoever, based on previous experience, that they'll come 'sans' a whole lot of stuff you need when you buy new aeroplanes (eg troops to maintain them, appropriate quantity of spares, ongoing maintenance funding, somewhere under cover to park them for the 90% of time they'll spend on the ground getting fixed, etc, etc, etc).
I've already heard of 'brass' plans to completely ignore current experience on similar (in operating principle, though nowhere near as big) types in favour of completely re-inventing that funny round thing which attaches to an axle. But then they wouldn't be the 'brass' if they didn't do that.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dutchroll - the best thing the brass can do is ignore other types when it comes to introducing a new type. get guys in there with as few pre conceived ideas as possible so as to avoid where possible the old "this is how we do it on hercs/707/p3 mentality. let the c17 have a fresh start and you will be amazed at the ideas that will come out regarding how best to utilise it. need to bear in mind however that the guys setting up the type will probably borrow heavily from the usaf and raf when it comes to sops etc. i think aussies should feel extremely lucky that they have a government willing to step up and throw the money down for a direct purchase of this plane as you will gain all the advantages without the problems that we (the raf) have suffered by going the lease route.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you've misunderstood my drift. I utterly agree they should not go with pre-conceived ideas about 'this is how we did it on Hercs, B707s etc'. But it's a two-pilot, glass cockpit, twin HUD, tactical and strategic military transport aircraft, is it not? Hmmm. Where might we have we learned fairly recent lessons applicable to that type of operation? Let me think.........
Anyway. I'll be pleasantly surprised - given that it's already been operating for quite a while - if the intro of the aircraft is smooth, efficient, sustainable, and without both internal and external interference. But my 'little birdies' are not filling me with confidence! I needn't (and shouldn't) say anymore.
Anyway. I'll be pleasantly surprised - given that it's already been operating for quite a while - if the intro of the aircraft is smooth, efficient, sustainable, and without both internal and external interference. But my 'little birdies' are not filling me with confidence! I needn't (and shouldn't) say anymore.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G'day,
Hey Dutchroll! Regardless of whether it was political, was it a good buy? Since you've got a lot to say I'd be interested to hear your opinions?
Seems to me having to compete with every other armed force/govt in the world for contract heavylift when something goes down (IRAQ 2003, Tsunami, Pakistan etc.) is a bad way to business, this makes the C-17 decision look pretty good?
Speaking from experience anything that is going to increase the flow through the supply pipe to the guys out front working is a bl..dy good thing. It sucks to be sitting on your arse waiting for parts whilst work is going begging.
You paint an interesting picture of ALG, so what's really going on, looks like you're just dying to tell us!
Yes I am a little uncomfortable with the way you're portraying the company, it's as though they haven't done a thing right? In my experience there are some incredibly clever and commited people who give a damn about getting the best out of what they have. Sure there are aberations but certainly not representative of the whole organisation.
As far as previous experience and pre-conceptions go, i'd have to caution against disregarding it all-together. I know of one occasion where a bit of knowledge from someone in the Herc community has allowed us to get out there and do the job? Cross-platform experience gives knowledge, which in turn encourages critical thought and a more realistic understanding of what really matters.
Maybe it's just easier to sit there and chuck rocks!
But hey, what would I know!
http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst...338_095_lo.jpg
http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst...338_070_lo.jpg
Hey Dutchroll! Regardless of whether it was political, was it a good buy? Since you've got a lot to say I'd be interested to hear your opinions?
Seems to me having to compete with every other armed force/govt in the world for contract heavylift when something goes down (IRAQ 2003, Tsunami, Pakistan etc.) is a bad way to business, this makes the C-17 decision look pretty good?
Speaking from experience anything that is going to increase the flow through the supply pipe to the guys out front working is a bl..dy good thing. It sucks to be sitting on your arse waiting for parts whilst work is going begging.
You paint an interesting picture of ALG, so what's really going on, looks like you're just dying to tell us!
Yes I am a little uncomfortable with the way you're portraying the company, it's as though they haven't done a thing right? In my experience there are some incredibly clever and commited people who give a damn about getting the best out of what they have. Sure there are aberations but certainly not representative of the whole organisation.
As far as previous experience and pre-conceptions go, i'd have to caution against disregarding it all-together. I know of one occasion where a bit of knowledge from someone in the Herc community has allowed us to get out there and do the job? Cross-platform experience gives knowledge, which in turn encourages critical thought and a more realistic understanding of what really matters.
Maybe it's just easier to sit there and chuck rocks!
But hey, what would I know!
http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst...338_095_lo.jpg
http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst...338_070_lo.jpg
Last edited by PLE Always; 5th Apr 2006 at 19:58.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You said it in one PLE! Pakistan etc, showed limitations of ADF transport capability versus what the Government demands at the drop of a hat to please their friends. Never mind that we have the sum total population of a couple of New York Cities and we do a pretty good job with the resources we have. Hey, I reckon it would be great if we ordered 250 JSFs, a squadron each of legacy F117s and B2s, and perhaps 4 Carriers for the Navy. Throw in a squadron of C-17s, 12 KC-10s, and for the maritime guys, 40 of the finest fixed-wing maritime assets in the world.
Of course, life just isn't like that when you live on a budget. You have to be careful what you buy and make sure you can support it. When we don't have enough spare engines for our existing hercs, I start to wonder about buying a bunch of C-17s at.....how much each? Perhaps you'd care to inform the masses? (yes I already know).
My opinion of the company? A bunch of great blokes at the coal face doing their best despite the efforts of the hierarchy and the pollies! Always has been!
Hey BTW PLE, who put those engines on upside down?
Of course, life just isn't like that when you live on a budget. You have to be careful what you buy and make sure you can support it. When we don't have enough spare engines for our existing hercs, I start to wonder about buying a bunch of C-17s at.....how much each? Perhaps you'd care to inform the masses? (yes I already know).
My opinion of the company? A bunch of great blokes at the coal face doing their best despite the efforts of the hierarchy and the pollies! Always has been!
Hey BTW PLE, who put those engines on upside down?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe it's just easier to sit there and chuck rocks!
But hey, what would I know!
But hey, what would I know!
Hey Dutch, PM me if you aren't aware of the current anti two cockpit sentiment
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Footlights College, Oxbridge
Age: 47
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
contract heavylift when something goes down (IRAQ 2003, Tsunami, Pakistan
In the face of rapists, terrorists and would-be bombers in one certain wonderful place and 250 million sypathiser w@nkers in another I can think of, drawing nasty cartoons of our beloved PM and Treasurer and organising riots and calling for Death to Australia..... I say fcuk 'em!!!
Who cares if the new C-17s are suitable for carrying sacks of rice to a bunch of peasants who next week will be calling for jihad because we laughed at Monty Python pulling the pizz out of izlam (sic)????
We should be asking one question:
Will the boys be happy flying these beasts?
Are they capable of dropping bombs?
If not, can they drop meat-bombs?
Do we really object to buying them or is just because we all wish we were mil pilots too and are jealous?
If yes, then buy them. I'd rather see the ca$h spent on new C-17s than on refurbishing the Lakemba mosk (sic).
All (intentional) spelling mistakes DF alcohol-induced..... whatever TF that means.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Dutch..
Engines upside down! Aye, they're the right way up (Just don't bring up the "No Step" on the TD)!
Nuff said on the C-17. Time will tell.
Enjoy,
PLE..
ps. As for Lord Snot, mate, have anotherie and anotherie and anotherie...
Engines upside down! Aye, they're the right way up (Just don't bring up the "No Step" on the TD)!
Nuff said on the C-17. Time will tell.
Enjoy,
PLE..
ps. As for Lord Snot, mate, have anotherie and anotherie and anotherie...
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nomadic
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone who has a 'modest' experience in RAAF, RAF and USAF (Yes really!) - You may be surprised how highly RAF and USAF actually regard RAAF and its modus operandi (spelling .....??). Often foreign Air Forces state things like .....RAAF is dong so and so etc... - as a function that it may be a good idea!!. SO the use of C-17 by a 'moderate' air force such as ours is really a 'forward thinking' move. Hopefully we will get post block 5 - the ones that don't lose all flight instruments (Head Up AND Head Down) for no apparent reason inflight.
