Geoff Dixon Writes To 2600 Pilots, Threatens Union Payment Cuts
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Because they are basing the arguments on abilities to make ongoing profits; perhaps the alternate pay structure, if thought about, should be heavily weighted on a % of the profit.
Whilst highly unlikely to be accepted by either side, From a PR battle point of view, if you say we are willing to take pay cuts provided that the profits are shared fairly with staff that facilitated those profits by accepting reductions, it creates a great counter position and hard for GeoFf and co to say it's not about profits but only ability to compete...
$763M last year is an awfully big bucket... If you locked in a reduction in base - Say$20K each but $52M per annum but also locked in 7% of profit $53M to be divided by the 2600 who gave up the $20K each; of course neither side would want it... because its too big a risk for both... But from a PR view point the 3 seconds media attention would turn this into a story about profits over workers everytime.
You find that most management type contracts are profit incentive based (EBIT) levels, if you lock in a % of that, you're all on the same gravy train...
Whilst highly unlikely to be accepted by either side, From a PR battle point of view, if you say we are willing to take pay cuts provided that the profits are shared fairly with staff that facilitated those profits by accepting reductions, it creates a great counter position and hard for GeoFf and co to say it's not about profits but only ability to compete...
$763M last year is an awfully big bucket... If you locked in a reduction in base - Say$20K each but $52M per annum but also locked in 7% of profit $53M to be divided by the 2600 who gave up the $20K each; of course neither side would want it... because its too big a risk for both... But from a PR view point the 3 seconds media attention would turn this into a story about profits over workers everytime.
You find that most management type contracts are profit incentive based (EBIT) levels, if you lock in a % of that, you're all on the same gravy train...
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Originally Posted by B A Lert
Also, for every browned off Qantas employee there are probably a hundred happy and contented souls
Originally Posted by B A Lert
and thousands willing to take the place of the disaffected were they brave enough to follow their instincts, tell GD and others what to do with their job and the airline and resign.
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Originally Posted by DutchRoll
It appears you're not aware of the results of the employee engagement survey..
Dutchy also wrote "I don't doubt at all that many others are willing to step in for vastly less pay."
Take a look at the numbers at Jetstar, Virgin Blue, and in the case of Cabin Crew only, Australian Airlines. All of these people are working for a damned sight less than those at Qantas doing the same jobs. Your comments show just how much you, like many of your colleagues who live and work in a rarifed atmosphere where your every whim is satisfied, are out of touch with reality.
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You chaps must ALWAYS be aware of the fact that pilots will NEVER attract a sympathetic response from the media - nor the public. As such, you will never win a PR battle. Other tactics need to be employed.
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Originally Posted by 56P
You chaps must ALWAYS be aware of the fact that pilots will NEVER attract a sympathetic response from the media - nor the public. As such, you will never win a PR battle. Other tactics need to be employed.
)and they don't even get that! They are so removed from the trevails of what is a normal existence it beggars belief How can anyone on the salaries of many Qantas pilots, 5 star accommodation and allowances to kill for, first class deadheading travel, massive superannuation 'entitlements' and so on ever expect sympathy from the majority of the population who are mostly doing it tough as they toil to eke out a living, aka as little Johnnie Howard's Battlers on Struggle Street. OK, some pilots are doing it tough but thats because of broken marriage/s, a business or farm to run as well as a flying career but this one can say is self-inflicted.
Before the critics jump in, let me answer your question: am I jealous of any Qantas pilot? No wucking fay.
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the salaries of many Qantas pilots, 5 star accommodation and allowances to kill for, first class deadheading travel, massive superannuation 'entitlements' and so on
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.... USED to be par for the course. It just ain't so any more BECAUSE other pilots will do it for a whole lot less.
Delaying tactics such as conducting NDB approaches, cruising at M.6 or entering 3 in the CI can all be quickly identified by management and the culprits "counselled."
Use those brains of yours to think of unidentifiable tactics that hurt!
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.... USED to be par for the course. It just ain't so any more BECAUSE other pilots will do it for a whole lot less.
Delaying tactics such as conducting NDB approaches, cruising at M.6 or entering 3 in the CI can all be quickly identified by management and the culprits "counselled."
Use those brains of yours to think of unidentifiable tactics that hurt!
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Over paid Qantas pilots!
Over paid Qantas pilots . Average wage of a mainline QF pilot is appx $150K.
[wage bill of appx $340 million divided by appx 2400 mainline pilots}
"B A Lert" sorry but you are obviously a Qantas manager or worse still a Qantas management wannabe.So what level of remuneration do you think would be appropriate for these "Fat Cat" Qantas pilots ?
[wage bill of appx $340 million divided by appx 2400 mainline pilots}
"B A Lert" sorry but you are obviously a Qantas manager or worse still a Qantas management wannabe.So what level of remuneration do you think would be appropriate for these "Fat Cat" Qantas pilots ?
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I think B A Lert is a pseudonym for Kevin Brown or some other pencil pusher in a cubicle who knows the ins and outs of a lot of people’s jobs while never having done them…
Tell us BA where you work and would you be so analytical if your job was threatened by someone wanting to do it for less then yourself or if someone described your job as overpaid and inefficient.
People who work on the ground for the company will always be jealous of crew especially when they see them depart and arrive from a trip and they have been stuck in an office during this time..it has always been this way and always will....people like BA would love to see crews conditions cut as it some how makes them feel better with their lot..very sad really
Tell us BA where you work and would you be so analytical if your job was threatened by someone wanting to do it for less then yourself or if someone described your job as overpaid and inefficient.
People who work on the ground for the company will always be jealous of crew especially when they see them depart and arrive from a trip and they have been stuck in an office during this time..it has always been this way and always will....people like BA would love to see crews conditions cut as it some how makes them feel better with their lot..very sad really
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Gotta agree there. B A Lert, you give yourself away. You work for QF, either as a management drone or some other minion. You have far too much knowledge of QF specific terms to be an outsider.
So what is it exactly you do? Maybe you are pilot who justs likes to wind people up; idiots like that exist.
What is your interest in this. Envy... boredom... schadenfreude?
So what is it exactly you do? Maybe you are pilot who justs likes to wind people up; idiots like that exist.
What is your interest in this. Envy... boredom... schadenfreude?
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NO WUCKING FAY..
As I am very content and satisfied with my lot, I am neither jealous nor envious of any Qantas pilot. I am just a realist! It's obvious that many don't like reality doses as they hit a little too close to home.
As insults will make not a jot of difference to my views, please try another tack. Might I suggest logic?
As insults will make not a jot of difference to my views, please try another tack. Might I suggest logic?
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PS
Does Little Johnnies Battler on struggle street need good school results, need to fork out $110K for a Qantas cadet course, need to pass stingent medical standards continuously, need to maintain rigorous standards in order to pass simulators and route checks,has "big brother" QAR recorders monitoring everything and I mean everything you do at work,etc,etc
Come your revolution, I suppose you'll be telling me I'll need to pay $30k for an aircraft endorsement to work for you at 3rd world employment rates ,because that's what benchmarking to the lowest common denominator is all about.
Downsize = Rightsize = Capsize.
Does Little Johnnies Battler on struggle street need good school results, need to fork out $110K for a Qantas cadet course, need to pass stingent medical standards continuously, need to maintain rigorous standards in order to pass simulators and route checks,has "big brother" QAR recorders monitoring everything and I mean everything you do at work,etc,etc
Come your revolution, I suppose you'll be telling me I'll need to pay $30k for an aircraft endorsement to work for you at 3rd world employment rates ,because that's what benchmarking to the lowest common denominator is all about.
Downsize = Rightsize = Capsize.
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Does Little Johnnies Battler on struggle street need good school results, need to fork out $110K for a Qantas cadet course, need to pass stingent medical standards continuously, need to maintain rigorous standards in order to pass simulators and route checks,has "big brother" QAR recorders monitoring everything and I mean everything you do at work,etc,etc
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There ARE pilots who meet all the above criteria and who ARE prepared to do your job for much less, Max. AND GD KNOWS IT!
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Come your revolution, I suppose you'll be telling me I'll need to pay $30k for an aircraft endorsement to work for you at 3rd world employment rates ,because that's what benchmarking to the lowest common denominator is all about.
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Sad, but now true. You guys are not indispensable. THAT was demonstrated in the "late 80s."
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There ARE pilots who meet all the above criteria and who ARE prepared to do your job for much less, Max. AND GD KNOWS IT!
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Come your revolution, I suppose you'll be telling me I'll need to pay $30k for an aircraft endorsement to work for you at 3rd world employment rates ,because that's what benchmarking to the lowest common denominator is all about.
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Sad, but now true. You guys are not indispensable. THAT was demonstrated in the "late 80s."
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“I’m just a realist”….who knows how to do everyone else’s job….sure sounds like KB and his press releases…notice how Lert never tells us where he works for the company ?
just that he has all the answers….yep management all right and most probably Darths script writer
just that he has all the answers….yep management all right and most probably Darths script writer
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I don't expect to be heard, because I have nothing to do with this on a personal basis, but it's precisely that disinterest that perhaps some should listen to.
From where I sit there are a few people here putting their fingers in their ears and loudly saying "I can't hear you, nanaanananana" over and over. Regardless of B A Lert's position in the organisation, the fact that he is saying things you don't want to hear should not blind you to their truth. Accusations of jealousy and other personal attacks are schoolyard responses unworthy of the calibre of person that max autobrakes wishes to place above the battlers of the world.
All the abuse in the world is not going to change the sad truth of the two points Casper made in his last post. Until they are accepted, you have no chance of changing them.
From where I sit there are a few people here putting their fingers in their ears and loudly saying "I can't hear you, nanaanananana" over and over. Regardless of B A Lert's position in the organisation, the fact that he is saying things you don't want to hear should not blind you to their truth. Accusations of jealousy and other personal attacks are schoolyard responses unworthy of the calibre of person that max autobrakes wishes to place above the battlers of the world.
All the abuse in the world is not going to change the sad truth of the two points Casper made in his last post. Until they are accepted, you have no chance of changing them.
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B A Lert,
If you are indeed a 'MANAGER'....apply some real thought to this situation...which is quickly becoming a real 'MANAGEMENT PROBLEM'..!!
Put YOURSELF in the shoes of your pilots (if you are QF) and try and understand why they feel the way they do.... SHOW some LEADERSHIP... a very important tenet in any organisation, particularly in a company which is considering and implementing so much change.
QF Pilots should be considered an ASSET to the company - NOT as merely a RESOURCE. This is the heart of the problem. It is not all about money or terms and conditions. The fact is, QF Pilots feel severely undervalued because management treat them as a resource which can be easily replaced by others, possibly at a cheaper rate...
This is NOT the way to harness your workforce and create an environment of teamwork and loyalty.
As lowerlobe eluded to... 'How would you feel in your present position - if your boss found someone who would do it cheaper...and for that reason alone decided they should take your position...'
The current situation and problems facing Qantas are one thing. However, the management and leadership (or lack thereof) provided by the Senior Execuitves is another.... Without solid leadership, which is based on INTEGRITY, MORAL FORTITUDE and LOYALTY (both to those above and below you)....the process of change and pursuit of profit will DESTROY QANTAS from the inside out...
Like I said before - GET A GRIP and show some LEADERSHIP
If you are indeed a 'MANAGER'....apply some real thought to this situation...which is quickly becoming a real 'MANAGEMENT PROBLEM'..!!
Put YOURSELF in the shoes of your pilots (if you are QF) and try and understand why they feel the way they do.... SHOW some LEADERSHIP... a very important tenet in any organisation, particularly in a company which is considering and implementing so much change.
QF Pilots should be considered an ASSET to the company - NOT as merely a RESOURCE. This is the heart of the problem. It is not all about money or terms and conditions. The fact is, QF Pilots feel severely undervalued because management treat them as a resource which can be easily replaced by others, possibly at a cheaper rate...
This is NOT the way to harness your workforce and create an environment of teamwork and loyalty.
As lowerlobe eluded to... 'How would you feel in your present position - if your boss found someone who would do it cheaper...and for that reason alone decided they should take your position...'
The current situation and problems facing Qantas are one thing. However, the management and leadership (or lack thereof) provided by the Senior Execuitves is another.... Without solid leadership, which is based on INTEGRITY, MORAL FORTITUDE and LOYALTY (both to those above and below you)....the process of change and pursuit of profit will DESTROY QANTAS from the inside out...
Like I said before - GET A GRIP and show some LEADERSHIP
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Binos - you are very wise indeed. The truth does sometimes hurt, and many have no wish to know it when it does hurt.
People will listen if they are faced with facts and logic but a response embedded with insults, innuendo and nonsense based on incorrect assumptions will only reinforce the views of the 'reasonable man'.
Can we get some objectivity back into the discussion or have the thread locked?
People will listen if they are faced with facts and logic but a response embedded with insults, innuendo and nonsense based on incorrect assumptions will only reinforce the views of the 'reasonable man'.
Can we get some objectivity back into the discussion or have the thread locked?
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Maybe I've missed something here.
Have QANTAS pilots been asked to work for less money? Or to create more efficient ways of working?
Pilots have lawful maximums on duty and flying time so they can't have been asked to do more work.
Excactly what is the beef.
B A Lert has hit the nail on the head from what I can read here.
Have QANTAS pilots been asked to work for less money? Or to create more efficient ways of working?
Pilots have lawful maximums on duty and flying time so they can't have been asked to do more work.
Excactly what is the beef.
B A Lert has hit the nail on the head from what I can read here.