Perth Fog
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Many years ago, a QF Capt nicknamed "Calamity" had yet another bad day when the PER runway lights went off the air during a technician's strike. One of the options voiced over the air was, indeed, ditching off Rottnest. No-one in authority could be contacted at Pearce.
In the end they rang a Tech at home and he came out; a fuse had blown in the lighting selector at the back of the console in the TWR cab. AFAIK, that's the only time ditching has been publicly contemplated. Heaven knows, we've even had a B707 autoland there on one occasion, but that's another story.
G'day
In the end they rang a Tech at home and he came out; a fuse had blown in the lighting selector at the back of the console in the TWR cab. AFAIK, that's the only time ditching has been publicly contemplated. Heaven knows, we've even had a B707 autoland there on one occasion, but that's another story.
G'day
Yes GAUNTY,Hello, long time no see...
Just a small point, whilst not wishing to 'diminish' your point....
Actually, He DID have 'comms'....with DBY FSU I believe - who was working very hard to help the man...
And, the Telephone at FTZ Hospital was answered by a VERY suprised nurse, when the DERBY FLIGHT SERVICE OFFICER (remember them??) rang, because in THOSE 'halcyon' days, it was ALL MANUAL exchanges and the 'Switch' was put thru to the hospital at night......
How would you be?? (To be the nurse concerned that is)?
'WOT'???????
Ring the cops, get the flares out ....ooops no kero in some, still lighting/laying flares as said FK28 did the remarkable, thanks to a rather remarkable pilot!!
I wonder just WOT would happen THESE days?????????????
Yeah, I know, P.A.L. etc....ah,....progress......
p.s. I trust that "THE MAN" is still enjoying a happy retirement!!!!!!
p.p.s. For 'Full Story'... "The West Australian" Saturday Magazine, about 18months - 2 years ago...Sorry if it was longer Harold....call it 'oldtimers'....
And, As a 'Young Fella CPL/Instructor' in 'Dem good ole' days'...I do remember sharing the CIRA at 'Meeka' with an 'Air India B707' who was diverted by the then ATC 'OPS CTL' due fog in PH, and who was possibly more suprised than I.....
Cheers!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 13th Feb 2006 at 11:01.
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Griffo like bad pennies we just keep turning up 
Yup spot on I just couldn't be bothered filling in the detail.
The phone in question was the only line night switched in FTZ for outgoing calls in case they needed to get the RFDS to come and do their thing.
The said night duty nurse, would normally have been up the other end of the hospital, usually napping, as you do.
and had no need and would not normally have been down the office end. I cant remember what took her down here but whatever it was saved a whole lot of lives.
I think the relief of the Derby FSO was only beaten by the surprise of the nurse.
No kero left in the aircraft either as it rowelled
to a stop.
FSO's ? I still remember them in my prayers before I go to sleep at night, they saved my sorry @rse sometimes and gave me comfort on those dark and stormy nights alongways from anywhere.
A Cessna factory guy was with me one night, Halls Creek to Perth evening monsoon thunderies, tip of a front, bit of ice, then gin clear Meeka south, 'til ILS to near the minima at Perth, damn near the same distance as halfway across the US, HF most of the way, not a sign of civilisation for hours 'cept the odd station lights and your only friend in the world the FSO.
All in a days work, he still talks about it to this day, his mates don't believe him.
Yup spot on
I just couldn't be bothered filling in the detail.The phone in question was the only line night switched in FTZ for outgoing calls in case they needed to get the RFDS to come and do their thing.
The said night duty nurse, would normally have been up the other end of the hospital, usually napping, as you do.
and had no need and would not normally have been down the office end. I cant remember what took her down here but whatever it was saved a whole lot of lives.I think the relief of the Derby FSO was only beaten by the surprise of the nurse.
No kero left in the aircraft either as it rowelled
to a stop.FSO's ? I still remember them in my prayers before I go to sleep at night, they saved my sorry @rse sometimes and gave me comfort on those dark and stormy nights alongways from anywhere.
A Cessna factory guy was with me one night, Halls Creek to Perth evening monsoon thunderies, tip of a front, bit of ice, then gin clear Meeka south, 'til ILS to near the minima at Perth, damn near the same distance as halfway across the US, HF most of the way, not a sign of civilisation for hours 'cept the odd station lights and your only friend in the world the FSO.
All in a days work, he still talks about it to this day, his mates don't believe him.
Bottums Up
I've heard the story of the Fitzroy Fokker a few times, though not first hand.
Wasn't there a bit-of-a-party going on, and the first person to answer the phone thought it to be a prank (as you do when you're a pit bissed) and left the phone off the hook?
Wasn't there a bit-of-a-party going on, and the first person to answer the phone thought it to be a prank (as you do when you're a pit bissed) and left the phone off the hook?
No parties.
To quote from Capt (Retd) Reg Adkins' book "I Flew For MMA":
The Flight Service Officer by now knew he had an emergency on his hands and had called out George Moyle, the DCA officer in charge. George had discovered a while back that there was a phone link from the Derby Doctor to the Fitzroy Hospital and offered to try to contact them to get a flare path laid. Some old kerosene flares were kept there in case of a rare Flying Doctor emergency. Harold affirmed this, carried out a missed approach and turned the aircraft for Fitzroy, climbing to 20,000ft to get the fuel consumption down. Trip time was now 27 minutes - virtually nothing in a Jet - and the hope was that Fitzroy could be contacted at what was now around 0330 (when everybody would be asleep), to get out to the strip and lay some flares for the aircraft to land by.
George Moyle kept ringing the Hospital which being understaffed, meant that the duty nurses were allowed to sleep, and it was only by the grace of God that the night duty Sister heard the little buzzer on the old telephone terminal at the other end of the hospital. Answering it, she was stunned by the news of a Jet Airliner coming there in the middle of the night, when they'd never even seen one in daytime. As always happens in these dire emergencies, the person contracted to do the job was unavailable, the flare pots were found empty and there was no kerosene at the airfield. A visiting Padre produced a spanner to open the flares for filling after someone had rushed back into town to find some kerosene.
Alex Henry was not idle while all this was going on, checking the track to Fitzroy and dialling up the Heading Selectors, working out an ETA and calculating the fuel remaining, as well as backing up his Captain at every request and monitoring the flight instruments for steady flight. At times like this aeroplanes can be lost when there are so many options to consider, calculations to be made and charts to find and peruse. If not positively monitored, they have been known to fly into the ground. Second pilot back up is therefore vital.
During the short flight across to Fitzroy they debated their course of action should no lights appear and whether to forced-land out there, or go back and put it down on the Marsh at Derby. But the few lights of Fitzroy appeared in the total blackness and, with the fuel tank low level barber poles now winking, Harold joined the circuit on what was, for MMA, essentially a non F.28 strip of unsealed gravel, although Fokker did approve of gravel operations.
Lining up for landing, and on short final, they realised the few flares they could see were on the far end of the strip and that car headlights lined up to help them were pointing the wrong way. There was no alternative but to go round again and Harold did an overshoot, flying a full tight circuit in the blackness of the outback with Alex monitoring speed and height and backing him up.
The fuel low level amber caution lights came on as he made another approach and put the aeroplane on the ground, braking on the gravel with speed brake and liftdumpers out and the anti-skid system doing its job, with only the minimum of lighting to guide him. As he turned off the runway both engines spooled down, not one drop of their life blood remaining.
Well done HR and AH.
To quote from Capt (Retd) Reg Adkins' book "I Flew For MMA":
The Flight Service Officer by now knew he had an emergency on his hands and had called out George Moyle, the DCA officer in charge. George had discovered a while back that there was a phone link from the Derby Doctor to the Fitzroy Hospital and offered to try to contact them to get a flare path laid. Some old kerosene flares were kept there in case of a rare Flying Doctor emergency. Harold affirmed this, carried out a missed approach and turned the aircraft for Fitzroy, climbing to 20,000ft to get the fuel consumption down. Trip time was now 27 minutes - virtually nothing in a Jet - and the hope was that Fitzroy could be contacted at what was now around 0330 (when everybody would be asleep), to get out to the strip and lay some flares for the aircraft to land by.
George Moyle kept ringing the Hospital which being understaffed, meant that the duty nurses were allowed to sleep, and it was only by the grace of God that the night duty Sister heard the little buzzer on the old telephone terminal at the other end of the hospital. Answering it, she was stunned by the news of a Jet Airliner coming there in the middle of the night, when they'd never even seen one in daytime. As always happens in these dire emergencies, the person contracted to do the job was unavailable, the flare pots were found empty and there was no kerosene at the airfield. A visiting Padre produced a spanner to open the flares for filling after someone had rushed back into town to find some kerosene.
Alex Henry was not idle while all this was going on, checking the track to Fitzroy and dialling up the Heading Selectors, working out an ETA and calculating the fuel remaining, as well as backing up his Captain at every request and monitoring the flight instruments for steady flight. At times like this aeroplanes can be lost when there are so many options to consider, calculations to be made and charts to find and peruse. If not positively monitored, they have been known to fly into the ground. Second pilot back up is therefore vital.
During the short flight across to Fitzroy they debated their course of action should no lights appear and whether to forced-land out there, or go back and put it down on the Marsh at Derby. But the few lights of Fitzroy appeared in the total blackness and, with the fuel tank low level barber poles now winking, Harold joined the circuit on what was, for MMA, essentially a non F.28 strip of unsealed gravel, although Fokker did approve of gravel operations.
Lining up for landing, and on short final, they realised the few flares they could see were on the far end of the strip and that car headlights lined up to help them were pointing the wrong way. There was no alternative but to go round again and Harold did an overshoot, flying a full tight circuit in the blackness of the outback with Alex monitoring speed and height and backing him up.
The fuel low level amber caution lights came on as he made another approach and put the aeroplane on the ground, braking on the gravel with speed brake and liftdumpers out and the anti-skid system doing its job, with only the minimum of lighting to guide him. As he turned off the runway both engines spooled down, not one drop of their life blood remaining.
Well done HR and AH.
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Thanks Bloggs, wonder where you got the electronic cut and paste from.
Alex Henry eh, forgotten about him, a true gentleman don't know where he is today, but wherever he is, he will be a pleasure to know and be with. Then there was Harry van Wees, Frank Schollman and all, come up the hard way.
If I recall correctly Derby to FTZ = 119nm.
exactly.
If you haven't got it, read it, I can recommend the book, about the days when men were men and pilots had the best looking girls and the best parties.
Promise I'll keep mum.
Alex Henry eh, forgotten about him, a true gentleman don't know where he is today, but wherever he is, he will be a pleasure to know and be with.
Then there was Harry van Wees, Frank Schollman and all, come up the hard way.If I recall correctly Derby to FTZ = 119nm.
George Moyle kept ringing the Hospital which being understaffed, meant that the duty nurses were allowed to sleep, and it was only by the grace of God that the night duty Sister heard the little buzzer on the old telephone terminal at the other end of the hospital. Answering it, she was stunned by the news of a Jet Airliner coming there in the middle of the night, when they'd never even seen one in daytime
If you haven't got it, read it, I can recommend the book, about the days when men were men and pilots had the best looking girls and the best parties.
Promise I'll keep mum.
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Before some of you lads jump on the "it didn't happen" bandwagon (QF ditching), I suggest you do a little more research. ATCO's I know say it did indeed happen and it was so close to ditching that it just aint funny. "SOP adherence gone mad" was one suggestion. There is a name of an off duty checkie that was on the flight who instigated the change of attitude to perform an auto-land. This is "common knowledge" in Perth.
Don't shoot me, I am simply the messenger. At a bar b recently I suggested it was a "tale". I was subsequently put back in my box. It was as real as you sitting in front of your computers right now!
Don't shoot me, I am simply the messenger. At a bar b recently I suggested it was a "tale". I was subsequently put back in my box. It was as real as you sitting in front of your computers right now!
Gaunty,
It fell off the back of a truck driven by Bill Gates!
Got some good stuff in it about why the pilots of today are on such a good wicket. I just wish that more of the young sprogs knew what went on in the old days as they chase each other to the bottom, but I digress... 
It fell off the back of a truck driven by Bill Gates!
I can recommend the book, about the days when men were men
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Jaysus wept Bloggs!!!!! I've just thrown up a rather expensive bucket of ice cream having read your Buuuuulllllldust. Hero/hangar stories blah blah blah. Why dont you tell em about your early early _____ training days, and what was it that you were given to read?
I'll meetcha out in the carpark for a p*ss*ng contest next week. (love ya heaps though) (no seriously I do).
I'll meetcha out in the carpark for a p*ss*ng contest next week. (love ya heaps though) (no seriously I do).
What the f*ck are you on about Scramjet?
Bloggs, awesome book that one, read it when I was about halfway through my PPL and it was a great motivator at the time. I read it again a few years later after working in the Kimberley, flying to places such as Wyndham and Gibb River and the stories meant so much more to me.
TL
Bloggs, awesome book that one, read it when I was about halfway through my PPL and it was a great motivator at the time. I read it again a few years later after working in the Kimberley, flying to places such as Wyndham and Gibb River and the stories meant so much more to me.
TL
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we've even had a B707 autoland there on one occasion, but that's another story
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scramjet77
Steady on young man.
I was, like the aforementioned well into my aviation career in the late sixties.
Captain Adkins (know him and the beautiful Shirley well), book, faithfully recalls the flavour and characters of the time in what was then and still is to an extent one of the worlds truly remote areas.
My company, was like MMA complaining about the recent closure of the Pt Hedland Met office and transfer to Perth, due to local wx peculiarities inc the unforecast fog that caught them out, but was a well known phenomenon.
If I recall correctly it was reopened at PD shortly after.
We were peripherally involved in the recovery.
As Bloggs say's
Steady on young man.
I was, like the aforementioned well into my aviation career in the late sixties.
Captain Adkins (know him and the beautiful Shirley well), book, faithfully recalls the flavour and characters of the time in what was then and still is to an extent one of the worlds truly remote areas.
My company, was like MMA complaining about the recent closure of the Pt Hedland Met office and transfer to Perth, due to local wx peculiarities inc the unforecast fog that caught them out, but was a well known phenomenon.
If I recall correctly it was reopened at PD shortly after.
We were peripherally involved in the recovery.
As Bloggs say's
I just wish that more of the young sprogs knew what went on in the old days as they chase each other to the bottom, but I digress...
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Whats it to you anyway?
Dear Trans*x/Transv*st*te/Transitionlayer,
It was actaully a little private joke between the Bloggsmeister and me. I know him well, love him dearly and love to toss the odd grenade into his bunker, duck for cover and when the dust settles, see what emerges.
However, since you asked the question, what I am “on about” my dear friend, is the breathtakingly parochial nature of certain people (not directed at R.A) who have only flown within 1 or 2 states of the country and yet have the temerity to suggest that “we are/were the best pilots/organisation the world has ever seen”. This would be based on what? Banging around the same place for twenty-five years, 1 years experience 25 times?
I love flying and always have, but quite frankly the egos on display within this industry just make you want to puke. (God knows there are many on display on this site everyday) The irony of it is, that those with the smallest horizons seem to have the biggest egos. Our contemporaries who have experienced flying overseas or for differing and varied organisations i.e. those with the broadest horizons and experience base are the ones who realise that Australia really is a backwater when it comes to aviation. Something the “locals” are just too insular to realise.
Anyway, now the woomera can give me a caning for hijacking the thread.
P.S. I too loved the book.
It was actaully a little private joke between the Bloggsmeister and me. I know him well, love him dearly and love to toss the odd grenade into his bunker, duck for cover and when the dust settles, see what emerges.
However, since you asked the question, what I am “on about” my dear friend, is the breathtakingly parochial nature of certain people (not directed at R.A) who have only flown within 1 or 2 states of the country and yet have the temerity to suggest that “we are/were the best pilots/organisation the world has ever seen”. This would be based on what? Banging around the same place for twenty-five years, 1 years experience 25 times?
I love flying and always have, but quite frankly the egos on display within this industry just make you want to puke. (God knows there are many on display on this site everyday) The irony of it is, that those with the smallest horizons seem to have the biggest egos. Our contemporaries who have experienced flying overseas or for differing and varied organisations i.e. those with the broadest horizons and experience base are the ones who realise that Australia really is a backwater when it comes to aviation. Something the “locals” are just too insular to realise.
Anyway, now the woomera can give me a caning for hijacking the thread.
P.S. I too loved the book.
No worries Scramjet, I probably asked the question in a little bit of an agressive manner, apologies for that, but I'm sure I wasn't the only one out there scratching my head in wonder at what you were saying.
Cheers,
TL
Cheers,
TL
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BA,
Many years ago, QF had a particular Captain who was always on about carrying too much fuel. He would call the individual Met Ctr appropriate to his destination and have a private weather briefing, cutting his fuel order cloth accordingly and even reducing the fuel on some occasions.
However, the MRU-PER leg one night nearly proved his undoing. They arrived at PER on the smell of an oil rag [well, kero, anyway] with nowhere to go and 8/8 FG. Equally, QF had just decided to go below 300'/1200m as a minima by using the Radio Altimeter, a device not included in most scans up to this time. So in near zero vis, they devised a plan to go down the ILS auto-coupled, disconnect at around 50' and flare a bit below that. Not quite auto-land [or the manual Cat II my mates were using years ago in Europe], but adventurous enough for the era.
I think this only cured him of reducing fuel orders into PER. It was, at yet another time of fuel conservation, espoused by Neilikins[fuel saving guru of the day] as the only place we should ALWAYS carry an alternate [then Meeka.]
G'day
Many years ago, QF had a particular Captain who was always on about carrying too much fuel. He would call the individual Met Ctr appropriate to his destination and have a private weather briefing, cutting his fuel order cloth accordingly and even reducing the fuel on some occasions.
However, the MRU-PER leg one night nearly proved his undoing. They arrived at PER on the smell of an oil rag [well, kero, anyway] with nowhere to go and 8/8 FG. Equally, QF had just decided to go below 300'/1200m as a minima by using the Radio Altimeter, a device not included in most scans up to this time. So in near zero vis, they devised a plan to go down the ILS auto-coupled, disconnect at around 50' and flare a bit below that. Not quite auto-land [or the manual Cat II my mates were using years ago in Europe], but adventurous enough for the era.
I think this only cured him of reducing fuel orders into PER. It was, at yet another time of fuel conservation, espoused by Neilikins[fuel saving guru of the day] as the only place we should ALWAYS carry an alternate [then Meeka.]
G'day
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gaunty,
As to your Q, Harold is still around, 85 last Dec, Alex regrettably no longer with us, the other two, VW is retired and Scholman I don't know.
I flew with Harold many times before and after the Fitzroy saga, a gentleman through and through, a great mentor to a then apprentice aviator.
Fog at Hedland one night found us going to our "optional" of Newman, burn +15% +20mns which meant the low tank barbers poles were ON as we were still in the cruise, I was cutting washers from the seat cushion, a BIG hand came out of the dark, touched my shoulder and the man said, " it's OK, they fly with a lot less", classic stuff and all was well.
Oh the old days when sex was safe and the flying was not
Cheers
As to your Q, Harold is still around, 85 last Dec, Alex regrettably no longer with us, the other two, VW is retired and Scholman I don't know.
I flew with Harold many times before and after the Fitzroy saga, a gentleman through and through, a great mentor to a then apprentice aviator.
Fog at Hedland one night found us going to our "optional" of Newman, burn +15% +20mns which meant the low tank barbers poles were ON as we were still in the cruise, I was cutting washers from the seat cushion, a BIG hand came out of the dark, touched my shoulder and the man said, " it's OK, they fly with a lot less", classic stuff and all was well.
Oh the old days when sex was safe and the flying was not
Cheers
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Thanks Feathers. Always interesting how other facets of the business get to play the game. Should be a good book in here if all the stories were to be collated.
Scram - I would have thought he would perhaps use his name sake to hurl the instrument for which it was designed.
the woomera can give me a caning
