A400M or C17 the next big thing
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A400M or C17 the next big thing
Good news for Air Lift Group if it comes to fruition.
RAAF to spend $2bn on heavy lifting fleet
John Kerin
December 15, 2005
AUSTRALIA plans to spend up to $2 billion on a fleet of giant aircraft to transport Abrams tanks and other heavy equipment around the world.
Defence sources are concerned that Australia has had to rely on massive US-built Boeing C-17s or charter Russian Antonov jet transports to get its troops to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Sometimes the foreign heavy lift is not available and boosting the RAAF's global reach will improve the Australian Defence Force's self-reliance and ability to be deployed.
The RAAF's versatile workhorse, the C-130 Hercules, can only carry about a quarter of the payload of a C-17.
The Government is considering buying or leasing long-term up to four US C-17s or eight smaller Airbus Military A400M propeller-driven aircraft. The A400M is being built for eight European air forces.
Defence Minister Robert Hill confirmed last night that cabinet had given its approval to examine the purchase of a "heavy lift transport capability".
He said Defence had been asked to examine available aircraft, with costed proposals expected to be presented to cabinet by March.
Defence sources say the C-17, which has been in service with the US Air Force since the early 1990s, is a proven aircraft, which would likely be ready for delivery earlier than the Airbus.
Although equipment such as jeeps and even small trucks can be moved by the Hercules, the C-17 can carry an Abrams tank or 120 troops - greatly increasing the firepower that can be deployed during a single flight.
C17 for me
RAAF to spend $2bn on heavy lifting fleet
John Kerin
December 15, 2005
AUSTRALIA plans to spend up to $2 billion on a fleet of giant aircraft to transport Abrams tanks and other heavy equipment around the world.
Defence sources are concerned that Australia has had to rely on massive US-built Boeing C-17s or charter Russian Antonov jet transports to get its troops to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Sometimes the foreign heavy lift is not available and boosting the RAAF's global reach will improve the Australian Defence Force's self-reliance and ability to be deployed.
The RAAF's versatile workhorse, the C-130 Hercules, can only carry about a quarter of the payload of a C-17.
The Government is considering buying or leasing long-term up to four US C-17s or eight smaller Airbus Military A400M propeller-driven aircraft. The A400M is being built for eight European air forces.
Defence Minister Robert Hill confirmed last night that cabinet had given its approval to examine the purchase of a "heavy lift transport capability".
He said Defence had been asked to examine available aircraft, with costed proposals expected to be presented to cabinet by March.
Defence sources say the C-17, which has been in service with the US Air Force since the early 1990s, is a proven aircraft, which would likely be ready for delivery earlier than the Airbus.
Although equipment such as jeeps and even small trucks can be moved by the Hercules, the C-17 can carry an Abrams tank or 120 troops - greatly increasing the firepower that can be deployed during a single flight.
C17 for me
Evertonian
For real uplift capability, the Antonov is a clear winner...if only you could put Western engines & remove the valves from the flight deck!
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Let's see .... 4 C-17s .... 1 will be in deep maintenance, (which won't be done by Qantas of course, 'cos they'll be doing all theirs in China), 1 will be in storage 'cos they cost so much to run, 1 will be half way around the world, which leaves ..... carry the four, dot the 7, ummm .... 1 left to do some work each day. "Gawd, can't let the bl00dy army put tanks in it today - we might need it for something!!!!"
Is 4 C-17s a silly token little fleet or am I being cynical?
Is 4 C-17s a silly token little fleet or am I being cynical?
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Buster alot of ruski machines still have valves even the fighters.
Why - Valves are imune to electro magnetic pulse transistors are not. Good idea to grab a few and westernise them I bet they would be allot cheaper than a c17 aswell.
Why - Valves are imune to electro magnetic pulse transistors are not. Good idea to grab a few and westernise them I bet they would be allot cheaper than a c17 aswell.
So Crystal Balling.....
...ah yes, buy a fleet of too-heavy tanks because the yanks have them and we want to plug-n-play, but then realise they are too big to fly them into the playground! Ok, so now spend lots on a minimal fleet of C17. Now we all look happy, so sign the contract. Wisely incorporate with options for more, so it looks like a bargain. Hmm...then Govt is informed that despite the tanks playing at hime, we don't have the capability to deploy more than one at a time. Govt three years later agrees it is a grand idea to double the C17 fleet.
...ah yes, buy a fleet of too-heavy tanks because the yanks have them and we want to plug-n-play, but then realise they are too big to fly them into the playground! Ok, so now spend lots on a minimal fleet of C17. Now we all look happy, so sign the contract. Wisely incorporate with options for more, so it looks like a bargain. Hmm...then Govt is informed that despite the tanks playing at hime, we don't have the capability to deploy more than one at a time. Govt three years later agrees it is a grand idea to double the C17 fleet.
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C17's would free up Hercs to be doing what they are built for. Tactical airlift.
Before you scoff at the C-17 just take a look at the British leasing example. They got them, now they are being worked like big trojans.
C17 can have here and now. A400 still on the plans. Replace 36 SQN with C17's and make em a strat SQN I say
Before you scoff at the C-17 just take a look at the British leasing example. They got them, now they are being worked like big trojans.
C17 can have here and now. A400 still on the plans. Replace 36 SQN with C17's and make em a strat SQN I say
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I believe that they are building a IL76 with western instruments and engines.
Pull your head in pass-a-frozo. The best thing to do would be to can your aircraft now and upgrade the Herc's (C130'H') to Talon specs. Replace the below average under performing grey thing with a proficient and capable strat airlifter and let the Herc's get on with the Tac work.
Pull your head in pass-a-frozo. The best thing to do would be to can your aircraft now and upgrade the Herc's (C130'H') to Talon specs. Replace the below average under performing grey thing with a proficient and capable strat airlifter and let the Herc's get on with the Tac work.
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You're all fools, clearly the only logical solution is a fleet of 20 Tupelov 154's with special sling loaded carrying ability.
I propose, each TU-154 is equipped with a 3000m - 70tonne capable cable - so that at completion of the takeoff roll, the M1A2 is "clean and jerked" off the runway.
I propose, each TU-154 is equipped with a 3000m - 70tonne capable cable - so that at completion of the takeoff roll, the M1A2 is "clean and jerked" off the runway.
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I though the idea of the M1s was that they would never leave Australia but that the crews could be flown to whatever theatre of operations the US is currently in (and would like Australian participation) and drive the tanks the US had place there? No need for C17s or whatever.
Might be a bit different if Peter Costello releases a few dollars and the ADF go through with the idea of an armoured brigade.
Might be a bit different if Peter Costello releases a few dollars and the ADF go through with the idea of an armoured brigade.
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Call 4 C-17s a "fleet"?
I think the money would be better spent on hundreds of "Quadra-puffs". They certainly look the part.
Imagine being a pilot in the Smurf jet SQN
I think the money would be better spent on hundreds of "Quadra-puffs". They certainly look the part.
Imagine being a pilot in the Smurf jet SQN
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Replace the below average under performing grey thing with a proficient and capable strat airlifter and let the Herc's get on with the Tac work.