Geoff a happy man....
In very simple piont form please,
Who is LH?
Who is ARG?
Which pilot group were voting?
and in 2 lines or less, what were they voting for please?
I know this may seem a bit late, but it will make the post easier to read.
Who is LH?
Who is ARG?
Which pilot group were voting?
and in 2 lines or less, what were they voting for please?
I know this may seem a bit late, but it will make the post easier to read.
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Ejector - if you dont know, you dont have a need to know. Pi$$ off to a non-pilot forum where you belong.
Dutch.
In this regards, QF pilots are no different to any other group of pilots.
Dutch.
In this regards, QF pilots are no different to any other group of pilots.
Calligula, Thanks you for your friendly advice Sir.
If I had no desire to know then I would not have posted the little questions.
Once again, Thanks for your advice Calligula but I decline to action on it.
If I had no desire to know then I would not have posted the little questions.
Once again, Thanks for your advice Calligula but I decline to action on it.
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Ejector
1) Qantas Longhaul Pilots
2) AIPA Reform Group, a group of pilots newly elected to the union who wish to change the way the union operates. (AIPA is the union)
3) Longhaul Pilots.
4) Pay and conditions.
Calligula - apt name.
1) Qantas Longhaul Pilots
2) AIPA Reform Group, a group of pilots newly elected to the union who wish to change the way the union operates. (AIPA is the union)
3) Longhaul Pilots.
4) Pay and conditions.
Calligula - apt name.
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Absolutely amazing. Thats 2 bizarre results - Jetstar and the EBA. I wish I could have voted for the LH EBA - I cannot understand, as many others have said, how we could vote the ARG in, then shoot them down in flames.
It would be fascinating to see the voter demographics - ie - which fleet/ranks voted yes/no. I would love to see who endorsed sending S/Os overseas for a pissy pay rise.
Disgusting. Absolutely a disgrace.
It would be fascinating to see the voter demographics - ie - which fleet/ranks voted yes/no. I would love to see who endorsed sending S/Os overseas for a pissy pay rise.
Disgusting. Absolutely a disgrace.
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As a proud NO voter I cannot help being sorely dissappointed at the lack of temerity demonstrated by 58% of our collegues.
However, anecdoetally this is what I saw happenning, of those who admitted to voting YES, they fitted into 2 main categories:
1. Too senior / selfish to care
2. Too young / naieve to know
Unfortunately, group 2 have the most to lose, but will not realise it for some time yet, after which it will be too late.
Anyway, thats democracy
However, anecdoetally this is what I saw happenning, of those who admitted to voting YES, they fitted into 2 main categories:
1. Too senior / selfish to care
2. Too young / naieve to know
Unfortunately, group 2 have the most to lose, but will not realise it for some time yet, after which it will be too late.
Anyway, thats democracy
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It aint democracy, it's fear. The pussies were either self interested or scared. Either way we all know what appeasement did for Neville Chamberlain
Now New IR laws and the yes vote will see J* intrnl rolled out post haste. We folded before we even called their hand. Now we are fuc*ed, all those people saying about time for QF...get ready you tools the IR reforms will get ya all...Thank the lil gimp, excuse me the PM and in our industry the pricks that comtinue to make it all possible....J*
Time for you serious aviators at J* to fall in with mainline, but if you did i guess you wont get shiny jets will ya?
Now New IR laws and the yes vote will see J* intrnl rolled out post haste. We folded before we even called their hand. Now we are fuc*ed, all those people saying about time for QF...get ready you tools the IR reforms will get ya all...Thank the lil gimp, excuse me the PM and in our industry the pricks that comtinue to make it all possible....J*
Time for you serious aviators at J* to fall in with mainline, but if you did i guess you wont get shiny jets will ya?
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Gee QFinsider, how does it feel to be a prostitute ?
You guy's really make me laugh.You shout and point fingers at everybody and then you roll over and let GD have his way with you and now you are still screaming about Jetstar.Face it you are a bunch of impotent prima donnas who are on their way out.
See Ya!!
You guy's really make me laugh.You shout and point fingers at everybody and then you roll over and let GD have his way with you and now you are still screaming about Jetstar.Face it you are a bunch of impotent prima donnas who are on their way out.
See Ya!!
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on ya Jan keepit personal.
many of my colleagues may be soft cocks..I certainly didn't come in with a silver spoon...Did 5 years and unemployment in GA. I simply passed the testing that QF set. Did you? What did they promise you this time?
Me a prostitute, clearly you don't know me, but I guess all the personal affronts make it easier for you. Good luck hope you meet the standard
As for Jetstar, maybe flavour of the month today, but it doesn't last , the point of my post is that collectively the IR environment will get us all, including all employees in the economy
many of my colleagues may be soft cocks..I certainly didn't come in with a silver spoon...Did 5 years and unemployment in GA. I simply passed the testing that QF set. Did you? What did they promise you this time?
Me a prostitute, clearly you don't know me, but I guess all the personal affronts make it easier for you. Good luck hope you meet the standard
As for Jetstar, maybe flavour of the month today, but it doesn't last , the point of my post is that collectively the IR environment will get us all, including all employees in the economy
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Me a prostitute, clearly you don't know me, but I guess all the personal affronts make it easier for you. Good luck hope you meet the standard
Well, you have all just proved exactly who and what you are for ALL THE WORLD to see. Hypocrites, stinking bl**dy hypocrites. You have shown your true colours and the fact that your lectures, belligerence and loud mouthed self aggrandisement are based on nothing more than p*ss and wind.
Just like all bullies tend to do, you have turned to water when the acid test arrived.
Go ahead and sledge us all, say and do your worst, the fact is you have been exposed, nothing you say or do can change that fact, and the rest of us are just laughing in your face.
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Guys, I gotta tell you - QF pilots, traditionally, have never been good "bar room scrappers". They have always backed down when direct confrontation with management rears it's ugly head.
Dixon knows it, Oldmeadow knows it and so does AIPA !
Get used to it, over it and bare those shiny little asses cause you're all in for a hiding to nothing !
Dixon knows it, Oldmeadow knows it and so does AIPA !
Get used to it, over it and bare those shiny little asses cause you're all in for a hiding to nothing !
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Laugh away kookaburra.
The 6% payrise sees every Captain on 200k plus and the 400 Captains on approx 300k plus.
A loss of licence scheme that will pay over 700k tax free after November next year. etc. etc.
If you attack this then you attack your own salary because surely we will come back to meet you, not vice versa.
What a delightful bunch of individuals you envious types must be to socialise with. Whinge whinge whinge.
Get a life and show us how tough you are. You have nothing to lose because nobody is going to undercut your crap salaries. (Then again????)
The 6% payrise sees every Captain on 200k plus and the 400 Captains on approx 300k plus.
A loss of licence scheme that will pay over 700k tax free after November next year. etc. etc.
If you attack this then you attack your own salary because surely we will come back to meet you, not vice versa.
What a delightful bunch of individuals you envious types must be to socialise with. Whinge whinge whinge.
Get a life and show us how tough you are. You have nothing to lose because nobody is going to undercut your crap salaries. (Then again????)
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Jake
I'm afraid you have missed the point.
As you know, quite a few of your colleagues have been advocating that everyone else in the world should accept their lowly position and refuse to work for lesser salaries in Australia, for the greater good, so that in the long run everyone would benefit.
The counter argument has been, why should the rest of us fall on our swords in order to protect your world, when you do nothing to help youselves.
Unfortunately for the good guys in Qantas, this latest capitulation has gone along way to substantiate the point that QF drivers are a bunch of prima donnas who expect others to do their dirty work for them.
Given the imminent arrival of J* international, I would guess this was your last chance to shore up your position. But as your post clearly proves, all you guys care about is your own salary and conditions, not anyone elses.
I'm afraid you have missed the point.
As you know, quite a few of your colleagues have been advocating that everyone else in the world should accept their lowly position and refuse to work for lesser salaries in Australia, for the greater good, so that in the long run everyone would benefit.
The counter argument has been, why should the rest of us fall on our swords in order to protect your world, when you do nothing to help youselves.
Unfortunately for the good guys in Qantas, this latest capitulation has gone along way to substantiate the point that QF drivers are a bunch of prima donnas who expect others to do their dirty work for them.
Given the imminent arrival of J* international, I would guess this was your last chance to shore up your position. But as your post clearly proves, all you guys care about is your own salary and conditions, not anyone elses.
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I agree, we at QF are hypocrites. Just not all of us, nor the 40% of us who voted no (and some in spirit as a large percentage couldnt actually vote), also remember - this was just LONGHAUL. There are a fair few in SHORTHAUL who have a separate EBA (that is another issue)
So whilst you paint all with a large brush, I suggest you pause and give thought to those who did vote no, and realise that not all of us rolled over, and some of us wanted to stand up. Unfortunately in this case (but overall fortunately for the principal) it is a democracy.
So whilst you paint all with a large brush, I suggest you pause and give thought to those who did vote no, and realise that not all of us rolled over, and some of us wanted to stand up. Unfortunately in this case (but overall fortunately for the principal) it is a democracy.
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Tell me,
How does attempting to "shore up" jetstar intl flying increase my salary?
If I earn more than you, that puts me at risk. Doesn't that help you? You can ask for a little bit less than I get and hope that you are successful in getting my job and salary.
Aim high!
How does attempting to "shore up" jetstar intl flying increase my salary?
If I earn more than you, that puts me at risk. Doesn't that help you? You can ask for a little bit less than I get and hope that you are successful in getting my job and salary.
Aim high!
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The results - as I understand them - are symptomatic of this "brave new world"...I...me...NOW!
Abeles and Murdoch tried with Australian pilots back then, but ended up having to bring in overseas opportunists to support the small percentage of Australians who couldn't resist what seemed then to be easy, fast gain for themselves, and b()gger the rest.
The present CEO of Qantas has set a "shining" example of how to take care of No.1, at the expense of ALL other Qantas employees.
IMO, it is now apparent to Mr D., that there is no overall unity within the main AIPA membership - a 60/40 result on these issues will be a landslide when the harder battle(s) arise.
It's sad to see, for those pilots who might have thought they were going to have a similar career path in QF, over the next 5 - 20 years, as those who have preceded them in the previous few decades.
Short term gain for (very) long term pain.
Abeles and Murdoch tried with Australian pilots back then, but ended up having to bring in overseas opportunists to support the small percentage of Australians who couldn't resist what seemed then to be easy, fast gain for themselves, and b()gger the rest.
The present CEO of Qantas has set a "shining" example of how to take care of No.1, at the expense of ALL other Qantas employees.
IMO, it is now apparent to Mr D., that there is no overall unity within the main AIPA membership - a 60/40 result on these issues will be a landslide when the harder battle(s) arise.
It's sad to see, for those pilots who might have thought they were going to have a similar career path in QF, over the next 5 - 20 years, as those who have preceded them in the previous few decades.
Short term gain for (very) long term pain.
Last edited by HI'er; 4th Nov 2005 at 21:07.
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Jake
There you go again. Me, Me,Me,Me.
Until you stop caring so much about your salary, and more about those who's industry you represent, then......... well if you can't work it out, there is no point in any of us trying to explain.
There you go again. Me, Me,Me,Me.
Until you stop caring so much about your salary, and more about those who's industry you represent, then......... well if you can't work it out, there is no point in any of us trying to explain.
Bu Wait! Isn't Jetstar 100% QF mainline crews? It must be! Jake said (repeatedly and with condesention to anyone who dis-agreed) that it was going to be!!!
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Blueloo, the vote at Jetstar was similar but that didn't stop the Qantas guys reaching for the big brush, fun when the shoes on the other foot isn't it. Maybe you guys will see that we are against a common enemy and move forwards, too much to hope for I guess.
Qfinsider,
love it, congradulations on passing the test it works a treat that testing doesn't it. glad you will have an inspirational moment to hold onto for the rest of your life.
Jakethemuss,
sure mate we will take up the battle for you, nothing would make us happier, if you can't win your own battles get the others to lose theirs same outcome for you guys I guess just less pain and backbone required.
Qfinsider,
love it, congradulations on passing the test it works a treat that testing doesn't it. glad you will have an inspirational moment to hold onto for the rest of your life.
Jakethemuss,
sure mate we will take up the battle for you, nothing would make us happier, if you can't win your own battles get the others to lose theirs same outcome for you guys I guess just less pain and backbone required.
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The argument 'you QF blokes never do anything for anyone else so its fair if we undercut you and take your jobs' has always interested me.
I am aware that 'the pope' kept us out of '89. Given what has happened to pilot wages in this country since, maybe that was not a bad thing. The irony being that the current downward spiral had been generated by '89 returnees who have championed b-scales and paying for endorsements.
To those (vor****t ect) who push this line please tell me exactly what you would have AIPA do for you.
Eastern pilots are able to join AIPA if they wish. They are able to access all the resources of the association at a rate significantly less than what a -400 Capt pays (and fair enough too).
Jetstar pilots are able to join AIPA too. At the moment they chose do not do this because I suspect the deal that Oldmeadow is offering is more appealing.
But at some point this will end - someone else wll come along and undercut them and they will know how we all feel.
QF LH wages are the high water mark now. The aim is to get everyone else a payrise - not to drag us down.
I repeat my eariler question - give me a list of specific things you want help with and I will tell you if AIPA can help or not.
Otherwise, sour grapes will not help bring your T & C's up to the level they should be at.
The EBA result is a disgrace. But Dixon and Mannings threats and the rumour and innuendo surrounding the ARG had the desired effect on the membership. Its now up to the ARG to see what it can do over the next 12 months for EBA 8 before the new IR legislation blows everyone out of the water
I am aware that 'the pope' kept us out of '89. Given what has happened to pilot wages in this country since, maybe that was not a bad thing. The irony being that the current downward spiral had been generated by '89 returnees who have championed b-scales and paying for endorsements.
To those (vor****t ect) who push this line please tell me exactly what you would have AIPA do for you.
Eastern pilots are able to join AIPA if they wish. They are able to access all the resources of the association at a rate significantly less than what a -400 Capt pays (and fair enough too).
Jetstar pilots are able to join AIPA too. At the moment they chose do not do this because I suspect the deal that Oldmeadow is offering is more appealing.
But at some point this will end - someone else wll come along and undercut them and they will know how we all feel.
QF LH wages are the high water mark now. The aim is to get everyone else a payrise - not to drag us down.
I repeat my eariler question - give me a list of specific things you want help with and I will tell you if AIPA can help or not.
Otherwise, sour grapes will not help bring your T & C's up to the level they should be at.
The EBA result is a disgrace. But Dixon and Mannings threats and the rumour and innuendo surrounding the ARG had the desired effect on the membership. Its now up to the ARG to see what it can do over the next 12 months for EBA 8 before the new IR legislation blows everyone out of the water